PDA

View Full Version : Some questions regarding on 14x17 portrait



jumanji
16-May-2012, 21:44
Hi everybody there. I intend to shoot 14x17 film and wet plate in the future. I've recently acquired two petzval, one Hermagis and one Voigtlander, both are 18" f4.5. And I will have a Cooke portrait 18" f4.5 next month. So I have some questions:

1. Yes, I know they (all three lenses) wouldn't cover 14x17 at infinty but would cover at (head and shoulder) portrait distance. But could they cover 14x17 at full body portrait? A little fall off should be fine.

2. Could you please suggest me what camera should I looking for? I want to shoot both studio and field portrait, so I need a folding camera with huge lens board.

3. Since I have two petzval in this focal length, probably I will sell one. So what lens should I keep and what should I sell? This is the most difficult thing :(. Both are very reputable petzval maker. Or I should keep all :D?

Thank you all.

Steven Tribe
17-May-2012, 00:39
Funny you should ask just now!

I can't help you with 14x17" - but I can with 30x40cm and 40x50cm. Which are the equivalent of 12x16" and 16x20".
The German reisekameras were made in this size - but not usually in huge numbers!

The sizes were:

9x12 (not many)
10x15 (even fewer) - ext.35cm
13x18 (huge numbers) - ext 45cm
18x24 (a lot) -ext 60cm
24x30 (some) - ext 72cm
30x40 (some) -ext 92cm
40x50 (in the catalogues - but never seen). Ext 110cm

I have written the max extension for those made by one particular maker - Curt Bentzin of Görlitz. The extension is rather more on other models.
I am sure there are others who have examples of both the 30x40 and 40x50cm reisekamera size.

The sliding panel which is the lens board, get big enough to manage the lenses you are talking about for the bigger sizes.
I have just acquired a 30x40cm, fairly simple design.
X-ray film is readily available for the 30x40 size.
It is exactly the same design as the smaller models - just bigger in all dimensions.
The lens board design is exactly the same that I have on the rather heavier Studio camera of similar format.
Some photographs (thanks to BosseB!).

jumanji
17-May-2012, 09:09
Thank you Steven. 12x16 reisekamera is a great idea. However the max extension is a bit short: 92cm (36") is just enough for 1:1 with a 18" lens. And finding a complete kit with plate holder is really difficult.

Any more suggestion/advice for me?

Hugo Zhang
17-May-2012, 09:33
Hi everybody there. I intend to shoot 14x17 film and wet plate in the future. I've recently acquired two petzval, one Hermagis and one Voigtlander, both are 18" f4.5. And I will have a Cooke portrait 18" f4.5 next month. So I have some questions:

1. Yes, I know they (all three lenses) wouldn't cover 14x17 at infinty but would cover at (head and shoulder) portrait distance. But could they cover 14x17 at full body portrait? A little fall off should be fine.

2. Could you please suggest me what camera should I looking for? I want to shoot both studio and field portrait, so I need a folding camera with huge lens board.

3. Since I have two petzval in this focal length, probably I will sell one. So what lens should I keep and what should I sell? This is the most difficult thing :(. Both are very reputable petzval maker. Or I should keep all :D?

Thank you all.

Since I shoot this format, maybe I can give you some feedback and some sales pitch. :)

1. Your lenses will probably cover at half body length and have dark corners at whole body length, but you have to try each one on the camera ground glass as each one will be a little different. Your Cooke portrait lens, assuming it is a triplet anastigmat, will probably have more coverage than your Patzval lenses.

2. Of course a Chamonix one. Light weight, rigid and beautifully made. We can even make a wet plate holder for your 14x17 camera. Check Tuant's 20x24 Chamonix with wet plate holder.

3. Sell the one that brings you the most $$$ to pay for your camera and wet plate supplies. This is an expensive hobby. :) If you can wait, try all three lenses on the camera and then make decision which one to sell.

Hugo

Steven Tribe
17-May-2012, 10:13
My 30x40cm came (is coming) with an OK double plate holder.
This is the first one I have seen, during 3 years of looking for a "budget" buy for this type - but I have seen others at the more well known European auctions.
I respect the products Chamonix develops and makes but they can't compete with the 210usd this set cost me.
I think the 92cm quoted for extension for 30x40cm tailboard type is less than the acheivable - as long as the bellows are still soft.

Emil Schildt
17-May-2012, 15:06
Look at the attachment - it is smaller than Steven's (24x30) but it will easily accept your lenses, and the bellows are more than long enough... (but it is a problem if you want to go outside..)

I am jealoux of Steven - I want a 30x40 cm camera too!!
(I have one (Gandolfi actually), but it needs a lot of attention...attach2)

jumanji
17-May-2012, 22:26
Since I shoot this format, maybe I can give you some feedback and some sales pitch. :)

1. Your lenses will probably cover at half body length and have dark corners at whole body length, but you have to try each one on the camera ground glass as each one will be a little different. Your Cooke portrait lens, assuming it is a triplet anastigmat, will probably have more coverage than your Patzval lenses.

2. Of course a Chamonix one. Light weight, rigid and beautifully made. We can even make a wet plate holder for your 14x17 camera. Check Tuant's 20x24 Chamonix with wet plate holder.

3. Sell the one that brings you the most $$$ to pay for your camera and wet plate supplies. This is an expensive hobby. :) If you can wait, try all three lenses on the camera and then make decision which one to sell.

Hugo

Thank you Hugo for helping. Yes, probably I need to make a "dark box" and a 14x17 GG to check them and make a decision :).
I did read Mr Tuant's 20x24 Chamonix wet plate camera topic before. I love that camera. But I prefer a "vintage" wooden folding camera rather than a modern camera.

I'll add 12x16 reisekamera to my options.



(I have one (Gandolfi actually), but it needs a lot of attention...attach2)

Why didnt you attach two screws into two holes on top of the flange? That big lens may be dropped!

Steven Tribe
18-May-2012, 00:21
I'll make a photo report on the 30x40 reisekamera in the "Camera..." thread on Sunday night and check the maximum extension.
As Emil says, the max extension of the "oversize" Atelier cameras were huge:

24x30 - 125cm
30x40 - 145cm
40x50 - 150cm
50x60 - 190cm
60x70 - 220cm
70x80 - 240cm
80x100 - 300cm

eddie
18-May-2012, 01:29
imo there is no need to have a folding camera in that size to shoot wet plate? it is not like you are going to shoot from your motorbike.

why risk dropping an extremely expensive lens like the ones you listed above using a camera that 1. is not made to be used like you want to use it. 2. could possibly blow over in a slight wind. 3, most likely not have a lens board or front standard large enough or strong enough to really safely hold those monster lenses.

get a century studio camera or something similar on a century studio stand. i routinely move these cameras and stands very easily with a regular car.....you need to be a bit creative but it can be done. you will be moving so much crap anyway you may as well use the proper tool (camera) for the proper job.

jumanji
18-May-2012, 04:32
imo there is no need to have a folding camera in that size to shoot wet plate? it is not like you are going to shoot from your motorbike.

why risk dropping an extremely expensive lens like the ones you listed above using a camera that 1. is not made to be used like you want to use it. 2. could possibly blow over in a slight wind. 3, most likely not have a lens board or front standard large enough or strong enough to really safely hold those monster lenses.

get a century studio camera or something similar on a century studio stand. i routinely move these cameras and stands very easily with a regular car.....you need to be a bit creative but it can be done. you will be moving so much crap anyway you may as well use the proper tool (camera) for the proper job.

That's what I want to say! For some reason I dont have a car now nor in the near future. In our country the most common vehicle is motorbike. Once I saw this woman used a bicycle to carry a complete up-to-10x10 wet plate camera kit:

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4006/4521585800_85778e350e.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/contrastique/4521585800/)
Ready to Go! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/contrastique/4521585800/) by Contrastique (http://www.flickr.com/people/contrastique/), on Flickr

So I see why not to use a small motobike to carry a 14x17 camera kit :D. There is a common vehicle in our country called "Invalids bike" :D. Here it is:

http://a9.vietbao.vn/images/vn902/xa-hoi/20884625_images1896095_gy.jpg

I intend to modify my small motorbike like it.

So that's why I need some suggestions about an appropriate camera.

Tri Tran
18-May-2012, 06:37
If I were you I would concern the transportation instead of the camera and lenses. Here's the solution for you ! With this Winnebago you won't have any worry about the camera and lenses selection. Good luck with the new adventure.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/5642/85745666.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/20/85745666.jpg/)

Hugo Zhang
18-May-2012, 07:04
Tri,

That's a great picture! Perfect trailer/home for a roaming LF photographer. No gas is needed. :)

Hugo

Emil Schildt
18-May-2012, 07:10
Why didnt you attach two screws into two holes on top of the flange? That big lens may be dropped!

the front plate is made of oak. Dropping the lens won't happen....

eddie
18-May-2012, 09:00
I intend to modify my small motorbike like it.

So that's why I need some suggestions about an appropriate camera.

yes, i have been to your country. great place. awesome food. my brother was a teacher in HCMC for 5 years......

my suggestion above is still valid.

wanna meet me in BKK next week?



http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/5642/85745666.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/20/85745666.jpg/)

get that! and the "motor" :)

jumanji
18-May-2012, 10:47
If I were you I would concern the transportation instead of the camera and lenses. Here's the solution for you ! With this Winnebago you won't have any worry about the camera and lenses selection. Good luck with the new adventure.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/5642/85745666.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/20/85745666.jpg/)
Thank you. A great solution. That bike uses a "two legs vehicle" that runs by food instead of gas.


yes, i have been to your country. great place. awesome food. my brother was a teacher in HCMC for 5 years......

my suggestion above is still valid.

wanna meet me in BKK next week?



get that! and the "motor" :)

HCMC has its own beauty. I love it.
I always wanna go to BKK. Never go there before. I will meet you someday, definitely :).

Steven Tribe
20-May-2012, 09:12
The extension of the 30x40cm reisekameras around 95cm (lens board to ground glass).
There are a few more centimeters but I didn't want to push the bellows further with a "new" camera.
This size must be limit for one man portability, I think!
Enclosed are my largest 18x24 (Body) and the 30x40. Lens board size is 18cm.