Zeiss S-Planar 1:5,6 f=120mm

[rpsez]

Hi,
I'm sure hoping that someone has seen this lens before - and can tell me if'n it's suitable for mounting in a shutter and for use on a 4x5 camera.
The research I've done indicates that it's possible - I'm curious to see if anyone can give me some first-hand knowledge of using one.
During a recent scrounging session at a closed photography store I came across a bunch of enlarging lenses encased in (what looked like) inserts for some form of enlarging machine. I grabbed them up and when I got home took them apart. Ended up with a couple of mint El-Nikkors and this strange bird.
Here's the lens (the flange that's around the middle of the lens was used to mount it in the aforementioned 'insert'):

73443

73444

73445

My research has shown that this is a macro lens and that it should work for anything < 1.5m. That said - is it worth getting it mounted in a shutter?
Any ideas and/or insight would be greatly appreciated.

Rick

Postscript: Sorry about the crappy pics - the only thing that was handy was the phone.

[domaz]

If you are going to use it for Macro do you really need a shutter? Usually Macro means you will be dealing with high f numbers and shutter speeds in the seconds. That's how it usually goes down for me anyways, but this depends on the Macro work you plan to do.

[Leigh]

You want to check the diameter of the image circle.
I doubt it will cover 4x5 at f/5.6, and probably not even when stopped down.

Yours does not have the Zeiss T* multi-coating. Consequently, it might have flare problems if used outdoors.

I have the Hasselblad f/4 version of this lens. Same lens (presumably) in a Hasselblad mount with a shutter.

It was marketed as a Makro-Planar, specifically optimized for macro work.
However, I use it for all types of shots at all distances, and it performs marvelously.

- Leigh

[Dan Fromm]

My late friend Charlie Barringer had a couple of these. He said, as Leigh already reported, that it is identical to the version sold in shutter for Hasselblads. f/5.6, old version; f/4, newer. I'm quoting Charlie from memory, he doesn't answer the phone any more.

It is fine for all distances, shouldn't cover 4x5 at infinity, will just cover at 1:1.

Domaz, your comment on the lack of need for shutters in closeup work is misplaced and displays a lack of acquaintance with shooting closeup with flash. I recently saw Jim Galli and we had a chat about the usefulness of hats, the "Galli shutter," and Packards. Short answer, all extremely useful in the right circumstances, not ideal for, e.g., ISO 100 reversal film shot in broad daylight with the lens not stopped far down.

[Chauncey Walden]

I seem to remember that I had one of these at one time and that it fit directly into a press shutter. I also seem to remember that it was not great for macro on 4x5 with excessive chromatic aberrations in the corners. Center was fine.

[Simon Benton]

This is the only lens I use on my old Hasselblad - wonderful lens at all distances.

[rpsez]

...figured what the hell and mocked up a lensboard, bolted this thing to it and fired off a couple of sheets at a tulip that I got my wife for Mother's Day.

Horseman L 4x5 f32 @ 4 seconds.

73655

Not bad - perhaps a little soft.

I'll keep playing with it to see what else I can get out of it.

Thanks for everyone's input.

Rick

[Leigh]

Hi Rick,

Nice shot.

But the black background tells us nothing about vignetting, and the closeup tells us nothing about coverage @ infinity.

- Leigh

[rpsez]

Good points - both of them.

How would I go about checking coverage @ infinity?

Normally, if the lens was mounted in a shutter, I'd take it upstairs and point it out of the second story window at the farms below me- without a shutter I don't have a clue as to how to do this.

Even at f32 I'd need 1/50th of a second exposure (given 200 iso).

(I'm new at this LF stuff.)

Rick

[Bob Salomon]

Take it off the camera. set it at f22. Shut all the lights and close all the blinds, take a piece of cardboard (white) and draw a 5" circle on it. Point the lens out the widow and hold the cardboard behind the lens. Move the cardboard torward or away from the lens until you see a sharp image on the cardboard. Does that image cover the circle? If so, it covers infinity at F22. If it doesn't then it will not work for 45 at infinity. Measure the largest size of the circle and you will have the coverage of the lens. Try to measure the area without falloff.

[domaz]

Good points - both of them.

Even at f32 I'd need 1/50th of a second exposure (given 200 iso).
Rick

Don't forget bellows extension compensation. If you are focused at 1:1 you lose two stops of light to bellows extension so your 1/50 is down to around 1/10 and your assuming that you are taking pictures in the bright sun. Dan has a good point that if you plan to use Flash outdoors or slide film a shutter is necessary. On the other hand if you plan on shooting indoors with a flash and can darken the room you don't need a shutter.

[rpsez]

Take it off the camera. set it at f22. Shut all the lights and close all the blinds, take a piece of cardboard (white) and draw a 5" circle on it. Point the lens out the widow and hold the cardboard behind the lens. Move the cardboard torward or away from the lens until you see a sharp image on the cardboard. Does that image cover the circle? If so, it covers infinity at F22. If it doesn't then it will not work for 45 at infinity. Measure the largest size of the circle and you will have the coverage of the lens. Try to measure the area without falloff.

As expected it doesn't even come close to covering 4x5 at infinity. Thanks for explaining how to do that Bob.

What it does seem to be excellent for is macro stuff - as long as the subject is directly in front of the lens. There's not much room, if any, for movements.

That said, I shot a 3 pence coin with it and it came out super-duper (a technical term) sharp.

Horseman L 4x5 f16 @ 19 seconds. No cropping:

73798

The setup:

73799

Thanks again for everyone's help.

Rick

[Simon Benton]

Wow. Haven't seen a threepenny piece for fifty years!