iphone as viewfinder for 4x5 PS

[steve barry]

searching for a viewfinder for my old cambo wide 650 to no avail, I have been considering other options. Thought of using an Iphone. Any thoughts? May seem like a long way to go, but it would be cheaper and bigger than anything available in an optic viewfinder - and more importantly AVAILABLE - or closer to being available.

The stock lens on the iphone - from what I have read, I have a droid, is equivalent to about 35mm on 135 film, so I would need a wide accessory lens of some type.

Was thinking I could use the viewfinder app which appears to be great. GPS and notes would be added benefit. Wondering about a rangefinder app, I know it exists but could not find anything on its accuracy. Would be great to have them both combined in one app but that does not seem likely, unless the viewfinder app has it?

Couple questions. I would like to mount the phone behind the camera, but that involves somehow rigging the wide lens adapter to the phone, in a way that would allow it to protrude out beyond the camera body with film holder attached.

I found this (http://www.alpa.ch/en/products/framing-focussing/viewfinder/alpa-iphone-holder-mk2.html) from alpa: but the price is crazy and I would rather mount the phone on the back of the camera instead of the top.

73334

any input appreciated. thanks.

[steve barry]

also to anyone using the viewfinder app - can you customize the frame lines? It appears you can. thanks.

[steve barry]

I guess the viewfinder app designers DIRE make a version labeled for Alpa that, from the screen shots only appears to have some sort of rangefinder built in.

http://www.alpa.ch/en/products/tools/alpa-tools/alpa-efinder.html

[jb7]

Yes, you can customize everything on that app- film size and format, lens selection-
You can also set it to a zoom view, useful if you're adding extension on the larger formats. Focusing at 1m on a 65mm on 4x5 will add 5mm extension, which takes a significant crop off the edge.

Using it on a p&s- usually a 4x5 p&s is quite wide, so getting the iPhone lens as close as possible to the taking lens will help reduce parallax.

I use a cheap wide angle adapter, about 20$ from amazon- there are more expensive ones, and I like the design of the Olloclip, but I doubt whether the extra expense is going to produce measurably superior results, and the cheaper one is just fine as a viewfinder. However, I might have to try to get a wider adapter, to be able to use it with super wides. A fisheye might be needed, if you go shorter than 65mm, and below 72mm, a 0.5x adapter is needed, and these are hard to find.

I haven't mounted it on a camera yet, but it's an obvious solution to the p&s viewfinder problem...

[Joseph Dickerson]

Steve,

An 8x10 carboard with a 4x5 cut out works just as well, and requires fewer batteries. ;)

JD

[E. von Hoegh]

Steve,

An 8x10 carboard with a 4x5 cut out works just as well, and requires fewer batteries. ;)

JD

But you can't make calls on it. (bangs head on desk)

[Scott Walker]

+1 on everything jb7 said, it is a very user friendly app.
I have been working on a project with an 8x10 on my boat and I use the iPhone as my viewfinder once the image is focused and composed.
Since boats tend to move about however they please even when anchored it is nearly impossible to get the image composed, focused, film holder in, darkslide out, and shutter tripped before the boat is pointing in a completely different direction. So I compose and focus on the ground glass then insert the film holder and watching on the iPhone screen I wait until the image comes back as I composed it.
Only weird part is the image on the iPhone isn't upside down or backward. :confused: :p

[Drew Bedo]

Can't you just flip the phone over?

Seriously . . .Isn't there a way to invert the image (I dunno . . .I have a pre-droid flip phone as big as Cpt Kirk's).

[Jim Andrada]

Can't make calls on the iPhone either a lot of the time. Great computer, crappy phone.

[Rolfe Tessem]

I was skeptical of the viewfinder app, but it works great and is completely customizable. If you are using a 90mm lens or wider on 4x5 or something like a 165mm on 8x10 you will need a .67 wide angle adapter on the iPhone to view and angle that wide. It allows you to set up four different cameras with different lenses and understands the different formats (i.e. it understands what angle a 300mm lens is on 8x10 versus 300mm on 35mm).

[blevblev]

Re: Isn't there a way to invert the image

Couldn't you do it using the rotation lock on the iPhone?

[Emmanuel BIGLER]

Thought of using an Iphone. Any thoughts?

Cologne (Germany) Photokina 2010, at the Alpa booth. (http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4127/5035344007_4fbe42bab4_b.jpg)

[Kodachrome25]

Glad I saw this thread!

I hesitantly paid the respectable sum of $19.95 for "Viewfinder Pro"......and love it!
I could see getting a wide attachment just from how helpful the app is in low light.

It's quickly becoming one of my favorite apps, especially when you have the shutter ready, holder in and suddenly second guess your composition. Inverting the image would indeed be handy...

[Nana Sousa Dias]

I made a "point-&-shoot" 4x5" camera with a Super Angulon 47 XL, fixed focus.

The viewfinder was a problem, because I needed something that could view 120º angle. The cheapest alternative was a Gaoersi viewfinder but, it was still expensive for me, so I bought a lens of those used on apartment doors (I don't know the name of this, in english). I found a PVC nut, that is used to join PVC garden irrigation tubes, I attached an accessory shoe male to it and "framed" the viewfinder with black tape, and voilá...e nice viewfinder for about 5 bucks.

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/1020/img6082m.jpg (http://img844.imageshack.us/i/img6082m.jpg/)


http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5525/img6086gx.jpg (http://img6.imageshack.us/i/img6086gx.jpg/)


http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/6682/img6087k.jpg (http://img11.imageshack.us/i/img6087k.jpg/)


http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/2559/img2001m.jpg (http://img35.imageshack.us/i/img2001m.jpg/)

[jb7]

Still love that camera- and that's a purposeful looking viewfinder-

However, $5 seems a bit much, iPhones are free these days...

My Plank uses a viewfinder like yours, but there's no harm in trying something new.
So I chopped up some aluminum and stuck it back together.

I've done a few tests, will write them up tomorrow-


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8142/7252547558_837a07c00f_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/joseph-jb7/7252547558/)
Plank DV 3683 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/joseph-jb7/7252547558/) by joseph - jb7 (http://www.flickr.com/people/joseph-jb7/), on Flickr

[Jan Normandale]

I'm really interested in this. I was thinking about going for a Linhof VF but this is way more convenient and less costly.

[steve barry]

awesome. I stuck my droid on my cambo with some rubber bands....and just cant get it situated right. Plus it adds a crap load of weight for hand holding.

I think the main problem is having the phone in back of the camera with film holder inserted....the camera and lens cover the bottom 1/3 of the view. Even when I stick it way up high like the apla mount...I still get pretty massive blockage. I like how you have your situated...but can you see the back of the Iphone screen?

both of these cameras are beautiful btw.

[jb7]

Here's a picture of the mount, without the iPhone-


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8008/7256659522_26d9036612_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/joseph-jb7/7256659522/)
Plank jb7 DV 3703 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/joseph-jb7/7256659522/) by joseph - jb7 (http://www.flickr.com/people/joseph-jb7/), on Flickr



http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/3676/dsc3581h.jpg

There's no problem seeing the phone from the rear...



http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/2383/dsc3629q.jpg



http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/7707/dsc3593d.jpg

... and there was an unexpected bonus when I found that I could see the focusing scale reflected in the black glass of the bezel. I might make some colour coded distance marks- Using this system, it might be possible to use this on the street, assuming that I can find some 400 asa film. It certainly makes it more useable than the optical viewfinder.

[jb7]

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/6043/img4031m.jpg


Of course, while the phone is on the camera it's pretty easy to make an exposure measurement-



http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/3959/img4019sc.jpg


And check for plumb...




http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/5153/img4027p.jpg


You can even switch to the front facing camera and make a self portrait.
It's a little known fact that 100% of self portraits capture a Decisive Moment...

[jb7]

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/2797/vf00064.jpg


Then you can frame your picture-




http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/6471/amgdn.jpg

For this one, I was more concerned with putting measurable detail around the edge than I was with composition. However, since this was going to be a wanton waste of a piece of T55, I roped in some reluctant models.

This was exposed in the newer model Polaroid Processor, it has a terrible problem with releasing the clip when you remove the film...

So, as you can see, the wide adapter I'm using isn't wide enough to image a 65mm on 4x5. However, it's close enough, and the missing space around the edge is indicated, so you can extrapolate.

Calibration is very important, I haven't completed that part of the operation, but have made a start. Viewfinder Pro provides an extremely comprehensive manual, and they make the point that supplementary lens manufacturers don't always provide exact data- and the ISO standard allows a tolerance of plus or minus 5% of the marked focal length for any lens. That includes the lens on your camera…

I've made the point earlier, adding extension for close focusing can be replicated in the app. If your camera is fixed focus, then that's not an issue, but focusing down to 1m on a 65mm adds about 6mm of extension. I've found that it's difficult to frame close shots using the optical viewfinder; the taking lens occupies a significant part of the bottom of the frame, and as the viewfinder doesn't tilt, there's a significant portion of the top of the frame that isn't imaged.



http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/20/img4028hm.jpg

You can even use the phone to time the Polaroid processing...



http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/1821/dsc3642e.jpg


It might even be useful for other cameras-

[steve barry]

nice going JB! wow. thank you very much. did not consider mounting it forward!

[jb7]

Thank you-

I think I mentioned mounting it to the front in my first post in this thread.

This should be considered as a prototype-
though I doubt if I'll ever get around to making the improved MKII version...

[steve barry]

You did, but I did not grasp what you were saying until I saw the photos. I am going to try and rig something similar.

[Jim Noel]

Steve,

An 8x10 carboard with a 4x5 cut out works just as well, and requires fewer batteries. ;)

JD

I fully agree. I also have hundreds of students to whom I taught this technique before I-Phones were thought of.

[jb7]

I fully agree. I also have hundreds of students to whom I taught this technique before I-Phones were thought of.



Let's hope you haven't been teaching camera design...

74071

[jb7]

Isn't a piece of card an unnecessary extravagance when you can easily make a frame using only your hands?
Wasn't there somebody around before you, who taught hundreds of students to do just that?