Newbie, exploring options....Advice PLEASE

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Hello everyone,
I want to try my hand at LF and probably MF too. All I have so far is 35mm
I saw an add that reads as follows:
"Hasselblad 500C 150 lens 1962, Film back 1961, prism view finder.

Like new 4x5 TOYO camera with 150mm lens, 10 film holders and a nice alum carrying case.

All for $600.

I called and he said that it all works fine, all movements work as they should. Phone call was very short because of my work.

My question is, is that a reasonable price? I do not know the brand of lens.
When I call again what should I be asking?

Thanks,
Bill

[Lachlan 717]

If you get a 'blad and the Toyo kit for $600, and it's all working, I'd say you could be on to a VERY good deal.

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Thanks, I hope so. Question is what should I be on the look out for? I've had a very brief experience (training) back in the 70's with an 8x10, I have never even seen a LF or a Hasselblad since. I imagine I just cock the shutter and listen to the quality and duration of the sound? What about the lens, I pick one up and I see a flaw, (probably will) what is acceptable?
Is it true that age does not matter in Hasselblads?

Thanks,
Bill

[MIke Sherck]

Toyo makes several models of camera; I know they made at least one monorail model but I don't know whether they made a folding camera. Monorails typically sell for less than folding cameras ("field" cameras,) because they're less friendly to carry and if $600 is for an old Toyo monorail with some ancient 150mm uncoated lens then $600 would be too much. On the other hand, if it's a recent multi-coated lens from Rodenstock, Schneider, Fujinon or Nikon then perhaps it isn't so bad. If it's a folding camera with a modern lens then it's probably a decent, if not fabulous, deal. If the Hasselblad is included, $600 is a very good price for that alone; the Toyo etc. should be considered to be free.

Like most things, pricing this stuff is a matter of degrees. To be more accurate we'd need model numbers or good close clear photos, or both. Also, be sure to ask whether the Toyo's bellows are light-tight. A few pinholes can be fixed easily but big holes, tears along seams, etc. mean a new bellows, likely in the $150 range.

Mike

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Yes it's $600 for both cameras, 2 lens, and a carrying case. It is a view camera.
It may sound stupid but how do you test for pinhole leaks? A dark room and a flashlight? I imagine that I will meet him at a public place and the sale will be made at a Shoney's or something like that. Probably no dark room available. Cosmetics on the Hasselblad??? Is it important? It could be a sign of misuse, but if it looks OK and sounds OK then I guess I'll go for it. I will be passing through his area in 2 weeks, I hope it's still available.

[MIke Sherck]

Age always matters, Bill! My body reminds me of that on a regular basis. When it comes to cameras, especially models like Hasselblad, soft foam is used for light seals and it deteriorates over time. Sometimes it crumbles, sometimes it turns into sticky taffy. Replacing seals isn't rocket science and you can get the materials (foam) for $10-$20 and do it yourself, but you should be aware of it.

Lenses have two major weaknesses to watch out for: shutters which range from merely being off of the specified speeds to completely broken, and major problems with the glass. Old shutters probably need a cleaning ("CLA" = Cleaning, Lubrication, and Adjustment".) Maybe $150 or so. Broken shutters need repair or replacement, and will cost from two to five times the cost of a CLA. Try cocking and releasing the shutter at each shutter speed and aperture; each time, listen to the sound the shutter makes and look a the aperture blades through the lens. The sounds of the shutter should vary from very slow at slow speeds to fast at the faster speeds; this doesn't tell you how accurate the shutter is but it will tell you whether it's working at all speeds or not. Similarly, it tells you whether the aperture opens and closes smoothly and that all the blades function properly.

For the glass, hold the lens up to a bright light so that the light just skims the surface of the lens. This will pick out any marks on the glass. There will likely be a smudge or two, from hurried cleaning; one or two light smudges likely won't be noticable. Scratches, chips! or fuzzy growth on or inside the lens mean that the lens needs more help than you may wish to give it. Scratches and chips can't be fixed and mold or mildew may have etched the glass permanently. There will be dust! Can't be helped and you'll add your share over time. Some brands of lenses, Schneider in particular and also some models of older Fujinon lenses, have a problem where sometimes black paint inside the lens loosens in small flakes over time and accumulates around the outer edges of the lenses. Most of the time this "Schneider-itis" or "Fuji-itis" is harmless but if it looks like someone has sprinkled pepper over the interior of the lens, don't buy it. Cleaning, like mold, requires disassembly of the lens, getting it right is not as simple as it sounds, and there's no point since there are other examples of these lenses in excellent condition for very reasonable prices.

Hope this helps!

Mike

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

I'll call him tomorrow and ask more questions, I'll post them tomorrow.
I'll ask about the manuf of the lens. I know that the Hasselblad comes with a 150 lens made in 1962.
How do you evaluate a lens??? If I can't see thru it... I ain't gonna buy it. Can someone help me be a little more specific than that?
Thanks, Bill

[MIke Sherck]

$600 for both sounds like a steal, providing that the Hasselblad works and that the lenses and shutters aren't completely broken. Yes,to test a bellows you need a flashlight and a dark room but at this price, I wouldn't bother. If you can't poke your fingers through the holes I wouldn't worry about it: you can cover them with tape until you figure out what you want to do permanently.

The value of a Hasselblad is always increased the closer to mint condition it appears; for most of us, a working Hasselblad for $600 would be satisfactory. Your feelings may be different. Hasselblads can be reconditioned and/or repaired but it won't be inexpensive. Lots of old beater Hasselblads came onto the market eight or ten years ago when many of the pro studios went digital and there are a lot of happy users who got them at good prices and don't really care what they look like. If you want it for resale, though, you likely care more about cosmetics.

Mike

[MIke Sherck]

I'm not all that familiar with Hasselblads, Bill, so I can't go into great detail. Others here can. For myself, I'd ask the seller to cock the shutter at each shutter speed and hold it up to a strong light while he trips the shutter. I'd be looking into the lens, watching to see whether the aperture blades close and re-open smoothly, while I listen to the shutter. If that all works, I'd be satisfied.

Mike

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Mike, thanks, I feel more informed, I finally know what CLA stands for!!!
It sounds like if I do not like the lens, both of them, then maybe I should consider passing, dependent on how the other things look. Putting it another way the glass is the most important, right? But if the TOYO looks in fine shape and the Hasselblad with prism view finder looks great then should I consider $600 just for the 2 cameras and case?

[MIke Sherck]

Keep in mind that what I was describing were lenses at their worst. In truth, cameras are pretty rugged machines and lenses aren't really all that delicate. Many of the most revered images from classical photography were taken with lenses we wouldn't bother with today; even badly scratched lenses can be useful for some purposes. The chances are that most or all of this stuff is in operable condition, at which $600 for the lot is a very good price. One might even argue that the Hasselblad body and film back alone are worth that, or that the Toyo camera, lens, and film holders if in good condition, might be worth that alone. It's really a judgment call needing some experience and knowledge to make with confidence, and even then luck may run against you (Yes, Chrysler, I am thinking of that piece 'o junk 1981 Plymouth Horizon I bought new off the showroom floor and was thrilled to sell 12 months later at a loss. What utterly contemptible junk!)

Fortunately, even a gross mistake buying a camera doesn't have the same consequences as choosing a second-rate discount eye or heart doctor. Whatever is broken or out of adjustment, if anything, can usually be adjusted and fixed. You'll likely be fine.

Mike

[Brian Ellis]

This sounds to me like one of those "too good to be true" deals. A Toyo field camera in good cosmetic and working condition alone should sell for $600. Either your seller doesn't know what he has or, more likely, he knows exactly what he has and plans to foist it off on you.

Given your inexperience with the equipment and apparent lack of knowledge (no offense intended) about how to examine and test for defects, I'd either forget it or at least buy it with the right to return so you have time to do some testing. And if I did the latter then I'd make sure I knew where the seller could be found. $600 is a lot of money to throw away if it turns out the stuff doesn't work right. Repairs on old equipment can be impossible (no parts) and even if possible can be very expensive, especially Hasselblads.

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Thanks everyone for the information. I called and the Toyo comes with a 150 Rodenstock f6.3 to f64 lens he said a ratio of 6:3 I do not know what a ratio in a camera lens means.
The Hasselblad comes with a chrome 150 Carl Zeiss f4 to f32 ratio of 1:4
Again he said everything is in good condition and works. The Toyo is a studio camera. Said the bellows is in fine condition.
He does not know if the lens are coated or not. He uses the cameras occasionally and has owned them for a long time. Last time he used the Toyo was earlier this year.

Question for the 4um, Toyo being a studio camera and I plan on mainly landscapes and some studio, how is a studio view camera different from an "Outdoor" type of view camera?
I will meet this guy on Sat morning.

Thanks everyone.

[Old-N-Feeble]

The seller is BS-ing. He has no idea what he's talking about. What does this mean to you as a buyer? Could be good. Could be bad.

Most things in life are a balance between educated guesses and gambles. If you're willing to throw the dice then good luck. It all depends on your gut-feeling and how much you can afford to lose vs. how much you might gain.

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

O&F, what makes you say that? I got to admit that I did not get any negative 'vibs' during the 2 short conversations.

[Old-N-Feeble]

What makes me say that is... the only "ratio" the f/stop that lens has is 1:6.3, not 6:3.

If you get "good vibes" from the seller... and if you trust your instincts... then maybe it's a good gamble. Only you can take that gamble. ;)

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

He was not sure what a ratio on a lens was either. I remember reading somewhere that the f stop of a lens was a ratio of the length divided by the diameter. Did I remember that one right? Was I close? He was on the phone with me, in his garage looking at the lens in poor lighting. Had a hard time reading it.
Well now that we know that it is a chrome 150 Carl Zeiss f4 and a Rodenstock 150 f6.3 DO these lens sound like good quality. I know the names are good but are these particular lens desirable? I forgot to ask about what shutter for the Rodenstock.
The cameras I am sure of... I do not know about the lens.
It also comes with a Toyo studio view camera, a Hasselblad 500C, prism view finder, 10 film holders, and a nice metal carrying case.
Thanks, Bill

[Old-N-Feeble]

All I can say is I would probably take the gamble. If most of it is just "decent" shape then it's worth more than the guy's asking. If it's all in great shape then you've made one heck of a deal.

[John Kasaian]

If the stuff is in good shape, you shouldn't loose any money. A good Hassy 500C with back and lens is a bargain for $500 (or at least was, before digital took the wheel) I had a 500C and it kept jamming on me---irritating to no end! I replaced it with a Rollei tlr "T"---I'm stuck with one lens but i couldn't afford the Hassy "system" of lenses anyway. Your experiences will likely be different.
As for the 4x5, most monorails are certainly portable outside the studio---some more so than others--- all will be good for working out of the trunk of your car but probably not for serious backpacking unless it was designed to that.
If all you want is a monorail, you should be able to find a good Calumet 400 or Graphic View 2 for about $100+, a used Tiltall tripod for $70, a modest stack of holders for $40, and a used 150 or 210mm lens for $150+/- so for around $350 you can get yourself a good kit and if you want to move to a different camera later, you'll already have your lens, tripod & holders. With you seller's kit, you could freseeably sel te Hassy for $500 if its in decent condition (check prices!) so you'll end up spending only $200 for your monorail kit---that would be a $150 savings (which will buy a lot of 4x5 film & chemicals or even an old Omega D2!)

[Brian Ellis]

Thanks everyone for the information. I called and the Toyo comes with a 150 Rodenstock f6.3 to f64 lens he said a ratio of 6:3 I do not know what a ratio in a camera lens means.
The Hasselblad comes with a chrome 150 Carl Zeiss f4 to f32 ratio of 1:4
Again he said everything is in good condition and works. The Toyo is a studio camera. Said the bellows is in fine condition.
He does not know if the lens are coated or not. He uses the cameras occasionally and has owned them for a long time. Last time he used the Toyo was earlier this year.
Question for the 4um, Toyo being a studio camera and I plan on mainly landscapes and some studio, how is a studio view camera different from an "Outdoor" type
of view camera?
I will meet this guy on Sat morning.

Thanks everyone.

The fact that the Toyo is a studio camera means it's a metal monorail, which means it's big, heavy, cumbersome, and not well-suited to being used outdoors if you plan to do any walking around. If you buy it I'd suggest doing so with the thought that it will be a learning experience and plan to later replace it with a
good field camera (generally lighter, easier to set up and take down, more compact) if you find that you really like LF photography.

Without knowing the model it's hard to set a price for sure but many of these types of cameras sell for around $150 on ebay. They were mostly used by pros who have switched to digital. But assuming a $150 value that would mean you're paying $450 for everything else, which would be a good deal if it's all in good condition and works correctly. I'd still be very leery of paying $600 for all this stuff given your relative lack of knowledge and experience with this kind of gear but if you do at least get a right to return in writing and know where the seller is located.

I don't know what a ratio of 6:3 is. Like Old pointed out, f/stop ratios are normally expressed as 1 to something. The fact that someone who owns equipment as sophisticated as this doesn't know how to express the ratio indicates to me that he knows little about photography and may not have used this equipment much if at all. Has he told you how he came to acquire it? A lack of knowledge and use on his part doesn't mean it can't be a good deal, just more reason to be skeptical and careful.

[MIke Sherck]

He was not sure what a ratio on a lens was either. I remember reading somewhere that the f stop of a lens was a ratio of the length divided by the diameter. Did I remember that one right? Was I close? He was on the phone with me, in his garage looking at the lens in poor lighting. Had a hard time reading it.
Well now that we know that it is a chrome 150 Carl Zeiss f4 and a Rodenstock 150 f6.3 DO these lens sound like good quality. I know the names are good but are these particular lens desirable? I forgot to ask about what shutter for the Rodenstock.
The cameras I am sure of... I do not know about the lens.
It also comes with a Toyo studio view camera, a Hasselblad 500C, prism view finder, 10 film holders, and a nice metal carrying case.
Thanks, Bill

The focal ratio of a lens is the lens's focal length divided by the diameter of the lens's opening. For a 150mm lens such as the Rodenstock you mentioned, 150mm is the focal length so a focal ratio of f/6.3 (how it's usually written,) means that the largest clear opening of the lens would be about 23.8mm. When the lens is stopped down to f/64, the lens opening would be about 2.3 mm. The practical value of this is knowing that opened to its widest, f/6.3, the lens lets a lot more light through. The image on the ground glass will be relatively bright, making it easier to compose and focus. At f/64 the image will be dimmer because the lens isn't letting very much light through (although depth of field will be greater.) For a view camera, f/6.3 is reasonably bright and should be easy to work with. In terms of quality, the f/6.3 lens was a budget lens, simpler in design and lower in cost than their larger, heavier, and more expensive plasmat designs. It's single-coated (more expensive lenses would be multi-coated,) which are anti-reflection coatings. These coatings reduce glare and increase contrast. Single coating is fine, in my humble opinion, for black and white films; if you shoot a lot of color then you may prefer a more expensive multi-coated lens. I shot for a couple of years with Fuji's version of this lens and was perfectly happy with it. I only sold it because I prefer lenses in other focal lengths.

I can't say much about the Zeiss lens because I don't know much about Hasselblads. I assume, being a Zeiss, that it's a good quality lens (they have a reputation in photographic circles. :)

A "studio" camera is probably a monorail; seems reasonable and that's what most Toyo cameras were, I think. Monorails aren't as desirable for carrying around out in the world because they don't fold up very compactly and they tend to weigh a bit more than folding cameras. Studio cameras were designed to be rigid as a first priority; folding cameras, generally, are designed to be portable and tend to be less rigid (although these are generalities: exceptions to all cases can be found.) You can carry a monorail around; it's just less convenient than carrying a folding camera in a backpack, that's all. I was once offered a Toyo model C monorail by a fellow at a yard sale; he hadn't heard of the Internet and was unaware of the decimation of prices digital photography had performed and so wanted a laughable price; I just politely declined. It looked like a solid, if perhaps somewhat heavy, camera. I could have made it work, I think, if I had to. I did carry a Calumet CC-400 monorail for a couple of years. The rail was a bit long and tended to get caught on things, so I sawed about 10" off and it was fine from then on. More cumbersome, yes, but also more satisfactory in others. I use a folding wooden field camera now and love it to death but there are times when I miss one or another of the features of the old Calumet.

The condition of this equipment is important and without experience it's going to be hard for you to judge. I'm of fairly easygoing outlook and probably over trusting but I've never been seriously disappointed by a seller yet, thus keeping my disposition sunny and my digestion regular. You say that you've talked to the fellow, he says that he's used it in the recent past and it works and that your instincts aren't setting off any alarms. Speaking personally for myself, that would likely be fine with me. Yes, he could perhaps get more for his stuff peddling it on Ebay but there's effort required in taking pictures and listing it and answering questions and managing the sale. Not to mention packing things so they don't get broken in shipment and finding boxes for everything, carting it to the post office... Then he has to worry about getting ripped off in payment. I think it understandable if he's willing to trade some of the price for a more convenient sale.

Mike

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Everybody thanks for your advice,
I went today and bought it. Toyo 45D I believe it to be as described "like new condition". When it gets dark I'll get the flashlight out and check the bellows, but they seem bright shinny, supple, no signs of breaking down. The Rodenstock 150mm 6.3 does have some dust inside, but the shutter sounds good at all speeds. The blades move nicely, no rust. The camera does not have any measuring devices at all, nothing to measure length or angles. The GG looks perfect. Did not see any wear at all.

The Hasselblad on the other hand shows some cosmetic wear, but the body and film compartment seem to work fine. The lens definitely has a problem (he pointed this out to me!!!). The rear element has glue coating the outer edges, concentric rings. He said that they DO NOT show because the light rays involved in the picture are directed thru the center portion of the lens. I called a authorized Hasselbled dealer and he said that the lens is coming apart and that portion would have to be replaced. He suggested putting a roll of film thru it and see if it shows or not. Cost to repair was about $175, I believe that included the CLA of the whole lens, other parts would be extra. But what I am reading here is that this lens is single coated and not a great lens then it's probably not worth messing with. If I keep my eyes open I can probably come across a good deal on a newer lens. In the meantime just shoot B&W and play with it.
10 film holders, a prism viewer came with the Hasselblad, and a nice metal case.

Before I start shooting (with film in the camera) I'll need to set up a darkroom. I'm reading about the color heads and variable contrast paper, IS THAT THE WAY TO GO???
I know that once I have a 4x5 enlarger that it will do MF and 35mm. Any advice on how to go about getting an enlarger? Again thanks for helping a newbie.

[Brian Ellis]

Congratulations, sounds like you got a good deal. Dust in the lens is no problem, all lenses have some dust somewhere in there. Single-coating is fine. Multi-coating is a much bigger deal with small format zoom lenses because of all the elements and air-to-glass surfaces, it isn't a big deal with LF lenses IMHO.

I don't know that color heads and VC paper are THE way to go but they're certainly a good way.

Enlargers are usually very inexpensive these days. The biggest problem is shipping, the cost of which can exceed the cost of the enlarger. So if possible try to find something within driving distance - Craig's List is a possible source as are newspaper classifieds. If there's a camera club in your area you might ask around there too. If those sources fail then try the usual on-line sources, e.g. ebay, the classifieds in this forum, KEH, B&H, Adorama (used departments),etc. and be prepared to pay for the shipping. Since you'll be starting from scratch and will need lens(es), trays, grain focuser, easel, washer, and all the myriad little things that make up the typical darkroom you might try to find someone who's selling a complete darkroom. That can save a lot of time and money.

[Old-N-Feeble]

If you've never cleaned a lens please don't attempt it yourself. Inexperience can turn a fine lens into a dog... or at least severely damage resell value.

[Alan Gales]

Bill, I would look for an old Omega D2 or D3 enlarger on Craigslist. People practically give them away.

[John Kasaian]

Bill, I would look for an old Omega D2 or D3 enlarger on Craigslist. People practically give them away.

So true! But all the little pieces ain't cheap when bought individually. if you go the D2 (or DII) route try and find one that comes with the lens carriers and lens cones for the formats you'll be shooting.

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Thanks everyone,
O&F what do you mean? Lightly cleaning the surface of a lens I do whenever it needs it, no problem. Are you talking about disassembling the lens, I'd never do that.
There is a camera club in my area and it meets tomorrow night, I'll be there.
D2 or D3 is recommended, I'll look them up and be on the lookout for one. I definitely would like someone who is selling everything, complete darkroom. I bet I'll be able to find one.
Now to get the better half to part with the hall bathroom!!! Question, do the chemicals stain sinks and floors?

[Old-N-Feeble]

Bill... All I mean is that cleaning gritty dust that's accumulated over time can be stubborn and is more difficult to clean so it requires some finesse in order to avoid damaging the coatings, especially older/softer ones.

[Brian Ellis]

Thanks everyone,
O&F what do you mean? Lightly cleaning the surface of a lens I do whenever it needs it, no problem. Are you talking about disassembling the lens, I'd never do that.
There is a camera club in my area and it meets tomorrow night, I'll be there.
D2 or D3 is recommended, I'll look them up and be on the lookout for one. I definitely would like someone who is selling everything, complete darkroom. I bet I'll be able to find one.
Now to get the better half to part with the hall bathroom!!! Question, do the chemicals stain sinks and floors?

I think Old probably means disassembling, cleaning the lens surface is a common procedure and creates no problems if done correctly.

Liquid darkroom chemicals do tend to stain sinks and floors. No need to write a treatise about which ones do what to what (which I couldn't do anyhow). The best practice is to wipe them up right away if they spill and try to keep them from routinely sloshing out of trays onto sinks, counters, etc. Some will stain no matter what you do (e.g. Amidol).

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Thanks,
I just spend 3 years remodeling this house. 4 bathrooms all now with granite counter tops, natural stone/tile floors, etc... I do not have a basement, laundry room is small with huge window, also granite counter, and tile floors. I do not want to stain anything. Any suggestions, garage has water but no drain. Also I am on a septic tank system, does that matter?
How do other people do it? My memories of the dark room had dripping going on everywhere!
Are the chemicals toxic to plants? I could push a drain out the garage wall into a flower bed, unless it would kill the plants.
Any suggestions?

[Old-N-Feeble]

I live in a crappy old trailer. Everything was worn out and stained before I bought the place. I'm keeping it that way because it's paid for and I don't care what it looks like. I have no one to impress. My son can tear down and rebuild once I croak after he inherits the place. For now, it's just fine for this cheap old bastage. Worry about stains?? Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!

There's something very liberating about "keeping it simple" and being "out of debt". Scroo the Jones' and the debt-horse they're riding. I don't play those games anymore. I'm free. ;)

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

O&F,
I am self employed, and with the market robbing me blind, I will never be able to retire.
Bill

[Old-N-Feeble]

Bill... I can't retire either despite health issues. I nearly emptied my 401K to buy this place... I didn't want a mortgage. I just hope Uncle Sam doesn't rob my pension much more than he already has. If I become so disabled that I'm completely incompetent then I'll most certainly lose my job. I can no longer stand for hours at a time greeting folks at Walmart. ;)

Hows that photo gear clean-up coming along?

[joselsgil]

Bill,

I am sure that someone at the camera club can help you out with your questions about setting up a darkroom. You really don't need to run a whole lot of water. If you can obtain some of the newer film and print washing equipment, as they tend to use very little water and are more effective in washing your film and prints. I have items made of plexiglass by Gravity Works that use very little amount of water when compared to the older style equipment. Check your local classified ads and on this forum for items for sale.
As for chemical being toxic, you can research the chemicals on Freestyle's website. Some have links to the chemical's material safety data sheets (MSDS). Chemicals that you purchase can also have an MSDS or a website link to the chemical's MSDS. Most chemicals are quite safe as they are exhausted when they are disposed or washed down the drain.

Check some of the postings on this site for darkroom photos. It helps to see how other folks are setting up their darkrooms. Kodak also published a very helpful darkroom book. I would tell you the book's title, if I could only remember were I left it :)

Good luck,

Jose

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

O&F,
My 401K has been robbed by manipulation of the stock market. I could not ever pick a winner. I wish I had just kept the darn money.
The Toyo needs no cleaning at all, heck it looks BRAND NEW.
The Hasselblad does not look all that pretty, it is going to require a lot of work. The lens is coming apart (glue spreading out from the edges of the rear element), 150 Zeiss f4, Probably $175 to fix and if I heard him right to CLA it. I could buy another lens for that amount (maybe) but they would probably need some work too. I need to shoot a roll of film thru it to see how it does to see if I have a problem or not. I can do that and have it commercially developed.....how big would the prints have to be to make it a fair test?
Right now I have no place to develop or print so all I can do is practice with an unloaded camera. I am learning, and reading.....God that GG is dim, and I do not have a lupe yet.

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Jose, Thanks, I will look into how others set up their darkrooms. I hear a lot about using the bathroom, but that sounds terrible, stains eventually... setting it up and then tearing it down, wear and tear, the sinks are the small hand washing type, lots of negatives... I have to really think this one out. The hot water tank is in the garage, that gives me hot and cold water but no drain..... Like I said I'm going to have to think this one out carefully. And no shooting until I work it out. I still have to come up with an enlarger and darkroom equipt. Everyone recom D2 or D3....A lot of what I read says color head and variable contrast paper....sounds good to me.
What systems for developing film are out there? JOBO is an expensive alternative, some drums have holders you put your film in and then turn on the lights....what works???
If you were starting out from scratch which way would you go?

[Old-N-Feeble]

Bill... Most all our 401K's suffered from stock market manipulation. I lost about half of mine before I decided enough was enough and sank it into this crappy little trailer on two acres. All I have to worry about is upkeep and taxes.

I wouldn't make a huge print for a test unless I really liked the image. You can cut or tear pieces of an 8x10 sheet and place them strategically on verious areas of a 16x16 image... just make sure each piece is laying plat before making the exposure. Also, I good film inspection loop will tell most tales without ever making a print.

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Do not have the darkroom yet, I was talking about running a test roll thru the Hasselblad I just bought, having it developed and printed. That way I can see if there is any distortion from the glue on the rear elements of the Zeiss 150 f4 lens.
Speaking of loupes, I need one for focus on the GG of the 4x5. Which is the best to buy?

[joselsgil]

Bill,

You really don't need a darkroom to develop film in a daylight tank. These are good for roll films, and some are available for sheet film development.

If you don't have the equipment to develop film, check your local craigslist for folks selling darkroom equipment. I have seen complete darkroom setups selling for under $100. Should you prefer new equipment, I would recommend Freestyle Photographic Supplies. There are other good photo supply sources, but I have been dealing with Freestyle for over 30 years. Ouch! that makes me feel old.
If you run a roll of B&W film thru the Hassy. About the only time you will need a constant flow of water, would be in the final film wash. You can either use plain water for the stop bath after the developer. The spent developer can be dumped into a bucket or down the drain. The fixer can be returned to the fixer bottle. If you have photo-flo after the film is washed, it may help the film dry evenly. Hang the film to dry on a shower curtain rod, since you don't have a film dryer. After the film dries you can inspect with a magnifying glass or a loupe to see if the lens is good enough to keep using.

As for a GG focusing loupe, it is hard to say which is the best. Everybody has their own a preference. Some folks use a $1 magnifying glass for the dollar store. Personally, I have a Schneider loupe that I purchased at a camera flea market. I think I paid $30 for the loupe. I have also seen some focusing loupes going for $100. Just use whatever you feel comfortable with.



Jose

[Two23]

If I become so disabled that I'm completely incompetent then I'll most certainly lose my job. I can no longer stand for hours at a time greeting folks at Walmart. ;)



They changed all that last month. The greeters are now a ways back into the store, at the intersection of "action alley." They also allow greeters to sit on a stool now.


Kent in SD

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Thanks, I've heard of great deals out there, and I am actively looking. I will shoot a roll thru the Hasselblad and have it developed and printed just to see what I get.
I will keep an eye out for a loupe, I have not found a used one yet. I went to a local photography club last night, EVERYTHING was digital. I did not get to talk to everyone but no one I did talk to using film. It just takes patience and a lot of looking.

[JosephBurke]

Bill, I think in all likelihood you are going to see few people in a general photography club shooting film, so that's no surprise at all. I'm sure the vast majority of members in the LF Forum also shoot digital in some form or another--it is where photography is at this point in time. Just sayin' Regarding the Hasselblad, I expect that you may be disappointed with having only a 150 mm lens. Note that the 150 is a great lens but having only a telephoto lens sure takes away from its versatility. If you find that you like the Hassy then I expect you'll want a more normal perspective/FL lens, like the 80 mm. BTW-that's one area where a Rolleiflex TLR shines, it has only one FL so that doesn't get you into that lens acquisition disease and it's a stellar performer. One normal lens and you are downtown. The same applies to LF too. You can go a long way with a standard FL lens but will be rather limited with only a long lens.

[Ian Gordon Bilson]

Bill, you don't HAVE to have running water in your darkroom. Search "Ilford Wash method" (for film) -uses a minimal amount of H2O for an archival wash.
Prints can be washed to the same standard using the soak and dump method.