Will a Crown Graphic fold up with a 210mm Symmar-S attached?

[fecaleagle]

Sorry for the specificity of this question, but I am looking for a Schneider Xenar 6.1/210 or a Schneider Symmar-S 5.6/210 MC for use in a Crown Graphic. I was looking at the data page on the Symmar-S and I see that the overall length (not FL) of the lens is 73mm. Now, I rested a three inch cardboard box on my front standard and everything closed up just fine, but I'm not sure how much of the length of the lens sits in-front-of and how much sits behind the front standard, and I want to be sure that the front cell isn't going to run into the bed when I fold it.

Could somebody out there save me once again and let me know whether a 210 Symmar-S will close up inside the Crown? They seem to be more widely available second-hand than the 6.1/210 Xenars, but not being able to close the lens up inside the body would definitely be a turn-off for me.

Thanks,
William

[Bill_1856]

https://www.schneideroptics.com/info/vintage_lens_data/large_format_lenses/symmar-s/Symmar-S_Group_Data.pdf

[Kevin Crisp]

I doubt it will fold up with that lens on it, the rear element is quite large. A 210 mm repro claron will fit easily. I'd try it out but I don't have a copal 1 board for my crown.

[fecaleagle]

Thanks for the input.

From the group data sheet Bill provided (missed that one, thanks!), it looks like out of the 73 mm overall length, the rear element (behind the lens board) will take up ~26-27 mm, and the front element and shutter will take up ~46-47mm. I will adjust my cardboard lens when I get home and let you know how things go. Thanks for the input Kevin and the datasheet Bill...

[Kevin Crisp]

That rear element is so big it won't fit through the bellows opening on a Busch "D".

[IanG]

There's no way my 210mm Symmar S would fold up into my Speed or Crown Graphics it's a big lens. My 203mm f7.7 Ektar in it's Prontor SVS does easily :D

I guess a 210mm f6.1 Xenar should fit closed easily as well as it's a small lens. My Super Graphic will close with an equivalent 163mm or 7.5" f4.5 Ilex Paragon and I'm fairly sure it was the same with the Crown Graphic (it's a Continent away or I'd double check).

Ian

[Kevin Crisp]

The Ektar would be a good choice. Getting the body release to fire the shutter might be more complicated than with a Copal "0." If you're not using it that way, or can use a cable release while hand-holding it, no problem.

[IanG]

The Ektar would be a good choice. Getting the body release to fire the shutter might be more complicated than with a Copal "0." If you're not using it that way, or can use a cable release while hand-holding it, no problem.

Why an issue with the Ektar ? It fits a Compur/Copal/Prontor #0. Well at least the British (probably Ross) made ones do :D The Prontor SVS needs a very long throw cable release though :)

Ian

[Neal Chaves]

I just mounted and cammed a 210mm F5.6 Fujinon W for my 4X5 Crown TRF and was looking at the possibility of making it fold into the case. I did this once for a friend's 180mm F5.6 Nikkor W. The focus track had to be opened up a bit so the front element (58mm) would go through. The Fujinon is bigger (67mm) and would require that quite a lot of material be removed from the tracks. I thought better of the idea before taking other measurements. Not practical.

[E. von Hoegh]

Thanks for the input.

From the group data sheet Bill provided (missed that one, thanks!), it looks like out of the 73 mm overall length, the rear element (behind the lens board) will take up ~26-27 mm, and the front element and shutter will take up ~46-47mm. I will adjust my cardboard lens when I get home and let you know how things go. Thanks for the input Kevin and the datasheet Bill...

An old converitble Symmar 210 might fit, it's a bit more compact than the S. They're a bargain, and a better lens than most seem to think.

[Neal Chaves]

I just took another look at at the situation and made some measurements that might help. There is plenty of room for the rear element of most 210mm lenses. It can protrude up to 40mm from the back of the lens board. A lens with a front diameter of up to 64mm could pass through the tracks. The tracks themselves could be opened up to 70mm. Unfortunately, the front element of the lens, including any filter attached can only protrude up to 40mm from the front of the lens board for the case to close and latch. The case door could be "relieved" to allow a longer front element to pass through. Put your lens cap on from the outside and go your way, or fabricate a "nose cone" mounted to the door to cover it.

[fecaleagle]

Thanks for all the valuable information guys!

Just to put one last nail in the coffin, I "attached" my cardboard Symmar-S to the Crown this morning...
Sticks out just under 2" from the lens board, so just a few millimeters longer than the 210 Symmar-S.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7119/6986313194_0a4f784138.jpg

And then I closed it up...

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7182/6986316996_f5a0d4818a.jpg

Ouch. Case (un)closed. Forum consensus has it. Thanks again for all the info and suggestions. I will probably wait around for a f/6.1 Xenar 210 to pop up here or on the good old auction site. I'm really partial to these Schneider lenses for the performance they offer at a price I can afford...

[Kevin Crisp]

The 203mm Ektar is an outstanding lens and I am sure it would fit.

[fecaleagle]

Thanks Kevin,

I will keep an eye out for that one and do a little "research" on it in the mean time.

-William

[Old-N-Feeble]

A 210mm G-Claron is another possible candidate. I know nothing of old Dagor lenses but I understand those are quite compact also.