New to Large Format- what lens to get?

[Dr_Rocks]

Hi all,

I am new to LF (and film), and just got into it about a month ago. I have a Toyo 4x5 monorail that I borrowed from a friend, which has a xenar 150mm lens. After using it for a while, I sprung for a Zone VI wooden field camera (Although, I think it's one of the older rebranded Wista's, I'm not sure...) that came with a Caltar II 210mm lens. I really like this new camera, but was thinking of getting a wider lens for it. I plan on shooting a lot this summer in Isle Royale and Alaska, and will have to pack everything with me, so weight is at least a consideration in lens choice. I was thinking of something around 90mm, but I'm really not sure, and wanted to ask for suggestions. Budget is the main consideration, I don't know that I would want to spend much more than $300 on the lens.

Thanks!

-Chris

[BrianShaw]

There was a recent thread on 135 vs. 150. Read that if you haven't already. Then buy one. There are plenty of Schneider or Rodenstok f-5.6 lenses out there that will be within your price range.

[Leigh]

KEH currently has a large assortment of LF lenses including 90mm. http://www.keh.com

They have a couple of single-coated Fujinon SW 90/8 in Seiko shutters in your price range,
and a multi-coated version in a Copal shutter for a bit more.

The way you tell the type of coating on the Fujinon lenses is the location of the labeling on the front.
The single-coated lenses have lettering on the front element retaining ring, while
the multi-coated lenses have the lettering on the outside of the barrel.

- Leigh

[archphotofisher]

I found over the years i used my 125mm (4x5) for urban/architecture/landscapes allot , the 90mm was left in the case for the 75mm mostly for interior or exterior high rise work. So over the years you will build a lens stable of 6 to 8 lenses , one thing to remember try to afford a lense that will cover 8X10 so you don't need to replace them if you decide to head into larger format, due to coverage issues on film.

so my sable has

4x5 coverage 65mm, 75mm, 90mm,

8x10 coverage 125mm, 180mm, 240mm, 355mm, 480mm

[Mark Sawyer]

I'd suggest a 90mm, with a thought toward filling in with a 150mm some day if you feel you need it, (you may not miss it). Modern lenses are all very good, so it depends mostly on what deal you run across. Shine a light through the back side of the lens to check for haze/fungus/scratches. And check the shutter speeds as best you can, listening especially closely to the longest, (that's where the problems usually show up because the lension is lowest, and it's also the easiest to hear irregularities in the mechanism.)

[Old-N-Feeble]

Before you buy even ONE more lens please consider focal length spacing. I prefer approximately 1.5x but others will disagree. If I wanted to keep the 210mm and save money then my next wider lens would be a 135mm then 90mm then 58mm. Longer would be 300mm then 450mm.

However, since I like as many options as is practicable and if I wanted to fill a 4x5 frame I'd start with a 47mm SA XL...

47 SA XL
72 SA XL
110 SS XL
150 SS XL
210 whatever
300 whatever
450 whatever

But... don't listen to me. I'm just now getting back into LF after 30+ years.

[Dr_Rocks]

I'd suggest a 90mm, with a thought toward filling in with a 150mm some day if you feel you need it, (you may not miss it). Modern lenses are all very good, so it depends mostly on what deal you run across. Shine a light through the back side of the lens to check for haze/fungus/scratches. And check the shutter speeds as best you can, listening especially closely to the longest, (that's where the problems usually show up because the lension is lowest, and it's also the easiest to hear irregularities in the mechanism.)

Thanks! I suppose I could always take the 150 I have for the Toyo, and mount it in a new lens board? Any thoughts on 90mm lenses? I saw the Fujinon and the Super Angulon, not sure which would give me decent movements but not be super heavy.

[Leigh]

The Fujinon SW 90/8 has a 216mm image circle (IC) that will permit movements of 32mm or 37mm on 4x5.

It's rated by the manufacturer for use with 5x7 cameras, so 4x5 (163mm diagonal) is a cake walk.

The Schneider 90/5.6 SA XL has an IC of 259mm, permitting movements of 52mm/66mm, way more than your camera has.
It's also a LOT more expensive than the Fujinon.

The Schneider 90/5.6 SA XL weighs 665 grams. The Fujinon SW 90/8 weighs 407 grams.

You can probably mount the 150mm Xenar on a Technika lensboard. It depends on the size of the shutter.
That would be considered a 'normal' (if perhaps slightly long) lens for the 4x5 format.

- Leigh

[Dr_Rocks]

The Fujinon SW 90/8 has a 216mm image circle (IC) that will permit movements of 32mm or 37mm on 4x5.

It's rated by the manufacturer for use with 5x7 cameras, so 4x5 (163mm diagonal) is a cake walk.

The Schneider 90/5.6 SA XL has an IC of 259mm, permitting movements of 52mm/66mm, way more than your camera has.
It's also a LOT more expensive than the Fujinon.

The Schneider 90/5.6 SA XL weighs 665 grams. The Fujinon SW 90/8 weighs 407 grams.

You can probably mount the 150mm Xenar on a Technika lensboard. It depends on the size of the shutter.
That would be considered a 'normal' (if perhaps slightly long) lens for the 4x5 format.

- Leigh

That sounds great. Yeah, the XL sounds like more lens that I need. Is the F8 SA more comparable to the Fujinon? It seem to be priced similarly. Having a large image circle would be nice, I've run pretty far past the image circle on the 150 (taught me to check the corners after stopping down!)

[Eric Brody]

I started and had only a 210 for over a year. For a new user especially in LF it's not about lots o lenses, like smaller formats. We're I you, I'd strongly consider a 90. Super wides are really hard to use on 4x5's. My second lens was a 90mm f/8 Nikkor, perhaps a bit out of your price range but a 90 is a superbly useful focal length. Good luck.

[Leigh]

Is the F8 SA more comparable to the Fujinon? It seem to be priced similarly.
According to my Schneider catalog they're virtually identical; same IC for both and same shutter size.

The SA weighs 390 gm as compared with the Fujinon's 407 gm. FFL on the SA is 98.8; Fujinon is 99.2.

The rear barrel diameter on the SA is 67mm, on the Fujinon it's 65mm.
This affects shift capability due to interference with the standard bellows.

- Leigh

[Jim Jones]

Chris, you might try one of the older inexpensive 90mm f/6.8 lenses like the Angulon or Optar to see if that focal length suits your shooting style. They may do well enough for you at small apertures, and are compact and light weight.. If you like it, then consider one of the newer and better 90s and selling the old one.

[Dr_Rocks]

According to my Schneider catalog they're virtually identical; same IC for both and same shutter size.

The SA weighs 390 gm as compared with the Fujinon's 407 gm. FFL on the SA is 98.8; Fujinon is 99.2.

The rear barrel diameter on the SA is 67mm, on the Fujinon it's 65mm.
This affects shift capability due to interference with the standard bellows.

- Leigh

Thanks again for the info! Would a SA 5.6 (non-XL) be a better option than the SA 8? Does the 5.6 make it a lot easier to focus on the ground glass, or is there another good reason to prefer one over the other? I think it weighs 570g, which is a bit more, but might not be so bad (I'm young! I can carry whatever I want!).

[Ed Bray]

Might be worth looking for an older Schneider Symmar, they are convertable, the 150mm f5.6 will become a 265mm f12 with the removal of the rear lenses, the 210mm f5.6 becomes a 370mm f12.

[Bob Salomon]

Might be worth looking for an older Schneider Symmar, they are convertable, the 150mm f5.6 will become a 265mm f12 with the removal of the rear lenses, the 210mm f5.6 becomes a 370mm f12.

At the cost of a couple of stops and requiring a lot of bellows and rail and with mediocre performance converted. In addition an old convertible lens does not perform nearly as well as a modern non-convertible one.
Its real advantage is that it will be inexpensive. And that may be its only advatage. But if you are going to take the time and devote the additional effort of shooting 45 then why would you want to compromise the results because of the lens?

[Frank Petronio]

For $300 you can get a nice modern 135 or a crappy old 90. Get a 135, it compliments a 210 nicely.

[Old-N-Feeble]

Overall... I must agree with Frank regarding "crappy" vs. good. However, one can buy an excellent 90mm for approximately $200. What FL do you NEED NEXT??

[Leigh]

Get a 135, it compliments a 210 nicely.
Frank,

The OP already has a 150. Why would he want a 135?

FWIW, there's nothing "crappy" about a Fujinon SW 90.

- Leigh

[Brian C. Miller]

But if you are going to take the time and devote the additional effort of shooting 45 then why would you want to compromise the results because of the lens?

Because the lens you have is better than the lens you don't have. If Dr_Rocks waits a bit, something good will pop up for sale. He already has a good lens and camera, and a Fujinon 135mm recently went for $200 in the For Sale forum. I think there's a 90mm available.

[Jon Shiu]

If you are looking for a 90mm, the Caltar IIN 90mm f6.8 (same lens as Grandagon) is an excellent one and not too big or expensive, about $350, 440g.

Jon

[Leigh]

Would a SA 5.6 (non-XL) be a better option than the SA 8?
I'm afraid I have no info on the non-XL SA 90/5.6. My catalog only shows the XL version of that lens.

A full stop can make a difference on the GG. The image is a bit brighter, and the focus a bit more precise.

- Leigh

[Michael Graves]

There certainly isn't. I traded a 90mm Super Angulon f8 for a Fujinon 90SW f8 and I still think I got the better end of the trade.


Frank,

The OP already has a 150. Why would he want a 135?

FWIW, there's nothing "crappy" about a Fujinon SW 90.

- Leigh

[Frank Petronio]

Opps missed that. Never mind!


Frank,

The OP already has a 150. Why would he want a 135?

FWIW, there's nothing "crappy" about a Fujinon SW 90.

- Leigh

[BrianShaw]

Opps missed that. Never mind!

Not necessarily. I made the same "mistake"... assuming that he would eventually have to return the borrowed gear (Toyo and 150 lens, decribed in post 1) and wanted to buy his own. Perhaps "borrowed" was code word for "on permanent loan; now mine" and some of us missed that implication.

[Dr_Rocks]

Not necessarily. I made the same "mistake"... assuming that he would eventually have to return the borrowed gear (Toyo and 150 lens, decribed in post 1) and wanted to buy his own. Perhaps "borrowed" was code word for "on permanent loan; now mine" and some of us missed that implication.

Yeah, my wording was a bit confusing. It's a "permanent loan" sort of deal, he just told me not to sell it.

[BrianShaw]

No problem. You should be able to find a 90 well within your price range. I picked up a Schneider 5.6 90 a few years ago for $200 in a well-operating shutter. The filter ring has a ding but all is OK with it. Personally... I don't like the lens or the 90 FL on 4x5 and got much more for my money, and greater utility, with longer (12 inch/ 300 mm) FL lens. I'm not a WA kind of visionary.

[Old-N-Feeble]

Maybe this is the wrong place to post this... but I have a nearly mint 90mm SA f/8 I want to sell. I want a tad more coverage so I'm replacing it with a Nikkor SW f/8. I don't want to sell it too cheaply but I'm realistic about it's current value. Anyone is welcome to chime in regarding how much I should ask for it. I can post pics here if you're interested.

[Ed Bray]

I've just bought a 90mm SA f8 in Synchro Compur shutter from a dealer in the UK lens and shutter are exc++ and I paid £249 uk.

[Nguss]

As already mentioned you could go for a cheap 90mm 5.6 Angulon, but you may prefer a 90 with a larger image circle so that there is more scope for movement. I think it worth paying a little more for a Super Angulon personally if you want a 90mm lens.