PDA

View Full Version : fomapan v the rest of the world



cosmicexplosion
22-Apr-2012, 18:49
i have been convinced that fomapan was as good as it gets or better, is this a hoodwink?

what 8x10 black and white do you prefer?

cheers

Jay DeFehr
22-Apr-2012, 19:08
TMY-2, or anything else by Kodak, or Ilford, or Fuji.

David Karp
22-Apr-2012, 20:31
My favorite film is Ilford HP5+. I did get some very nice photos with the Arista.Edu version of 5x7 Fomapan 200 (since discontinued and resurrected I think).

cosmicexplosion
22-Apr-2012, 20:46
jay i think thats just about every one else...

mmm interesting, there is only one full time black and white lab here in oz called blanco negro, and they only sell and use fomopan.

they told me it was a better product, so before i crack this new 50sheet box i am keen to be put off.

then again, the last 50 was pretty much wasted trying to learn.

Jay DeFehr
22-Apr-2012, 21:37
jay i think thats just about every one else...

mmm interesting, there is only one full time black and white lab here in oz called blanco negro, and they only sell and use fomopan.

they told me it was a better product, so before i crack this new 50sheet box i am keen to be put off.

then again, the last 50 was pretty much wasted trying to learn.

There's Efke/Adox, and the Chinese stuff, which I haven't tried. I've seen very nice images made on Fomapan, so don't let my opinion sway you. Give it a go!

polyglot
23-Apr-2012, 02:13
Fomapan is excellent but not the very best. Tmax, Delta and Acros all have finer grain, better speed and better reciprocity but at 8x10, do you care?

sully75
23-Apr-2012, 02:19
TMAX is crazy film. Just used it recently and I was blown away. I can't imagine anything could be any better.

But Foma is a lot cheaper. My goal is to get great results from it. I've had some successes and some failures. Still working.

cosmicexplosion
23-Apr-2012, 03:15
having trouble finding tmax, seams it is discontinued?

thanks william, can i ask what the main difference is between hp4 hp5

thanks

Lachlan 717
23-Apr-2012, 03:28
having trouble finding tmax, seams it is discontinued?

thanks william, can i ask what the main difference is between hp4 hp5

thanks

HP4 was replaced in the late 1980s with HP5. Did you mean FP4?

HP5+ is 400asa whilst FP4 is 125.

cosmicexplosion
23-Apr-2012, 04:38
Ok thanks every one I will give ilford a good Ozzie go.
Rollie seem to have made some 8x10 film, looks expensive and interesting.
I think I read; 6400asa made in three layers like colour film?

But didn't I read a while back that t max was dead and something else took its place ... I spent a while searching only there was a million old posts on t max.

sully75
23-Apr-2012, 04:54
TMAX is not dead.

Ramiro Elena
23-Apr-2012, 04:59
I have been using Efke100 for a while. I do like Efke25 a lot better but my speed graphic sucks at slow speeds. Since I am broke I bought a box of Foma100 on friday. Will see how it goes.

UlbabraB
23-Apr-2012, 05:04
I shoot a lot of foma 100 from 35mm to 8x10, is supercheap here in Europe and I like the results developed in Pyrocat-mc and 510-pyro. It has a bad reciprocity effect, but I never had any other issue.

John Kasaian
23-Apr-2012, 05:38
I really like the combination of Aristafied Fomapan 100 and Fomabrom N111 paper. Film is like playing the saxophone: put the time in to learn it and get outstanding results or don't take the effort and it comes out lousy. Either way its 95% photographer and 5% materials. Ilford has much better reciprocity rates than Fomapan 100 so I don't see Fomapan as being a replacement for Ilford, but rather another tool in my kit--a very useful & affordable (at the Aristafied price) tool!
TMY? TXP? Those are sentimental favorites but beware! Sentimentality can be very, very corrosive!

cosmicexplosion
23-Apr-2012, 06:13
I shoot a lot of foma 100 from 35mm to 8x10, is supercheap here in Europe and I like the results developed in Pyrocat-mc and 510-pyro. It has a bad reciprocity effect, but I never had any other issue.



super cheap, how much do you pay?

@john what is Aristafield?

thanks for the 95% comment, nothing worse than a crap shot on good film eh?, (to misquote Ansel)

jp
23-Apr-2012, 06:49
For 8x10 and 4x5, I use about 80% tmy2 and 20% (arista) fomapan 100.

Kodak tmy2 is amazing. Never a fault. Always perfect. Big brightness range, versatile developing, etc... I have used the film for 20+ years and have gotten to know it, so I think it's the film that's awesome more than me. But you do need to work with a film for a while to get comfortable with it. You can get tmax 400 at B&H right now in 8x10 or send money to Canham and wait.

Foma is capable of excellent images under certain conditions and is cheaper. It's also more prone to scratches and pinholes (which I have finally got a handle on with tf4 fixer), and as mentioned not so great for long exposures, but I don't do much of that. It's a fun film, but I don't have the faith in it's quality that I have with Kodak.

Jay DeFehr
23-Apr-2012, 07:08
I really like the combination of Aristafied Fomapan 100 and Fomabrom N111 paper. Film is like playing the saxophone: put the time in to learn it and get outstanding results or don't take the effort and it comes out lousy. Either way its 95% photographer and 5% materials. Ilford has much better reciprocity rates than Fomapan 100 so I don't see Fomapan as being a replacement for Ilford, but rather another tool in my kit--a very useful & affordable (at the Aristafied price) tool!
TMY? TXP? Those are sentimental favorites but beware! Sentimentality can be very, very corrosive!

One can learn to deal with bad reciprocity, but how does one learn to deal with manufacturing defects? I suppose one could just learn to prefer defective materials, and then the defects become "attributes", or "character".

My preference for Kodak and TMY-2 might be sentimental -- I do feel very warm knowing the film will be the size and speed that's printed on the box, that the film in this box will be functionally identical to that in the last box and the next box, that there will be no manufacturing defects of any kind, and that the imaging characteristics are simply unmatched by any other film. My god, I'm getting misty.

cosmicexplosion
23-Apr-2012, 07:15
here, have a hanker, chief!

cosmicexplosion
23-Apr-2012, 07:28
canham has the 400 kodak film at 88 buckaroonies a box

bh photo has tmy 2 at 73 buckaroonies

fomapan is for me now $225au for 50 sheets, so 45 a box of ten. so about half price of the kodak 400, guess ill be cracken this box wide open...

thank you for lending your learned ears.

i will, work towards deserving some kodak

Peter Yeti
23-Apr-2012, 16:07
My preference for Kodak and TMY-2 might be sentimental -- I do feel very warm knowing the film will be the size and speed that's printed on the box, that the film in this box will be functionally identical to that in the last box and the next box, that there will be no manufacturing defects of any kind, and that the imaging characteristics are simply unmatched by any other film. My god, I'm getting misty.

Very well put, I totally can relate to that statement. I've been playing around with cheap film recently and was very disappointed. If I put hours of work into creating an image, I don't want to see this endeavour to be jeopardised by defective film. How much is your time worth in comparison to a box of film? With Kodak, Ilford, Fuji, Agfa (deceased) I never had an issue ever. Can't say that about any other producer, unfortunately. The cheap films are great for playing and fooling around, but for serious work you always take a risk. I love the look of efke/Adox because it's quite unique. But I'm desperately awaiting a pro version of those films which come with a guaranty of no defects and consistent quality. It's only a question of QC and if the manufacturers would enforce the same quality standards as, say, Kodak, they would be nearly as expensive. So there's the catch: As long as we are willing to put up with defective film if it's cheap, there won't be much pressure to improve quality. Scanning and PS seems to dig the grave for quality film.:(

I only can hope that the dinosaurs like Kodak, Ilford, Fuji will stick around some more to provide us with quality materials. I don't want to be forced to go back to collodion (though it certainly is fun to play with it:))

Peter

Drew Wiley
23-Apr-2012, 16:27
The Foma 200 was an odd duck for sure, but would separate shadows better than anything
I've ever used before. Great for extreme lighting. Poor recip characteristics. I gave up on it
because the odds were only 50/50 that there weren't scratches on the 8X10 sheet from
the factory. Given this risk, TMY400 might be expensive per sheet, but not per shot!

Shen45
23-Apr-2012, 16:46
Cosmic, Foma is an excellent film. Works beautifully in D76, Xtol or Rodinal. It is very sharp, has a classic European look as opposed to that lifeless dull American look. I have shot hundreds of sheets dating from 2005 to current with only one or two problems that may have been handling issues on my part. If you have a 5x4 get some Foma for that, talk directly to Chris at Blanco and get his opinion on what people are doing with the film He will also have example negs as well as prints. This fascination with all things Yellow reminds me sadly of a 3 movie trilogy that was made in New Zealand. If you want more info PM me and we can talk. About the film not the movie.

Steve

J. Fada
23-Apr-2012, 20:03
Foma has it's issues sometimes but it gives beautiful tonality. I read somewhere recently that the pinholes may be due to little pieces of cutting artifacts and tapping the film before loading gets rid of them. I might start brushing the film before loading. If I only scanned film it would be the only film I used. I still print in the darkroom though so with Fomapan I usually double up on anything I think might be a good image. In smaller formats it is great. If I ever go to a digital workflow I will use it all the time. My favorite films in LF at this point are Efke PL100 followed by HP5. I like using Foma 400 in Grafmatics with my Polaroid 4x5 conversion though since I burn film with it. If I was stuck with only one film at this point I would take HP-5. It is the most solid film.

I just loaded 50 sheets of Fomapan 100 into holders to give it a go instead of the 400 to see if I would like it.

Jay DeFehr
23-Apr-2012, 20:33
Foma has it's issues sometimes but it gives beautiful tonality. I read somewhere recently that the pinholes may be due to little pieces of cutting artifacts and tapping the film before loading gets rid of them. I might start brushing the film before loading. If I only scanned film it would be the only film I used. I still print in the darkroom though so with Fomapan I usually double up on anything I think might be a good image. In smaller formats it is great. If I ever go to a digital workflow I will use it all the time. My favorite films in LF at this point are Efke PL100 followed by HP5. I like using Foma 400 in Grafmatics with my Polaroid 4x5 conversion though since I burn film with it. If I was stuck with only one film at this point I would take HP-5. It is the most solid film.

I just loaded 50 sheets of Fomapan 100 into holders to give it a go instead of the 400 to see if I would like it.

I agree it can be quite nice, under ideal circumstances, and when there are no defects. Hardly a ringing endorsement, I think. Here's an example of the 400 stuff in 120 -- terribly curly stuff, and a real pain to get into a holder for printing/scanning.

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6167/6167880619_200255419b_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jay_defehr/6167880619/) Juliet in coat and tie (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jay_defehr/6167880619/) by Jay DeFehr (http://www.flickr.com/people/jay_defehr/), on Flickr

Andrew O'Neill
23-Apr-2012, 20:40
My main film is HP5 but I love TMY-2 til it runs out (gotta be the best film ever), then FP4, X-ray, Efke 25, Efke IR (got a couple of 8x10 boxes)

cosmicexplosion
24-Apr-2012, 00:08
ok so i just found out that arista and fomapan are both one and the same....

so i am going to attempt to find the cheapest source of arista, i think it was freestyle i saw it for $120, does any one get it for less?

thanks
Andrew

Ramiro Elena
24-Apr-2012, 01:46
When you speak of film defects in cheap film such as Efke and Foma, what are you refferring to? I ask because I am not sure I've experience them. I've heard the emulsion can change from box to box. Will try TMY2 though, I haven't shot B/W Kodak in sheet for some time.

IanG
24-Apr-2012, 02:03
I have been using Efke100 for a while. I do like Efke25 a lot better but my speed graphic sucks at slow speeds. Since I am broke I bought a box of Foma100 on friday. Will see how it goes.

I was shooting Fomapan 100 with my Yashicamat when we met up in Barcelona last year, and some of the images I showed you were shot with it. It's been my backup film in MF and LF for about 5 years now as I find it easy to get when travelling (as are Ilford films) and it's very competitively priced.

The only problem is taming the contrast with both Fomapan 100 & 200, they build up contrast very quickly, I find they need about 2/3 to 3/4 of the dev times of other films and I shoot both at half the box speeds.

For hand-held LF work with my Crown or Super Graphic then HP5 lets me shoot at 100th @ f22 most of the time.

Ian

Ramiro Elena
24-Apr-2012, 02:18
The only problem is taming the contrast with both Fomapan 100 & 200, they build up contrast very quickly, I find they need about 2/3 to 3/4 of the dev times of other films and I shoot both at half the box speeds

I can relate to that. The Foma100 I have shot up until now gave me super dense negatives but I thought it was a mistake on my side. I underdevelop Efke too.

MIke Sherck
24-Apr-2012, 07:17
ok so i just found out that arista and fomapan are both one and the same....

so i am going to attempt to find the cheapest source of arista, i think it was freestyle i saw it for $120, does any one get it for less?

thanks
Andrew

"Arista" is Freestyle's house brand name for other manufacturer's stuff. "Arista.edu Ultra" is their house name for Foma film, "Arista Premium" is Kodak, etc. Consequently, you won't find "Arista" anywhere but Freestyle.

Mike

cosmicexplosion
24-Apr-2012, 07:27
thanks mike found foma in norway at 82 euros, have to suss out shipping.

BetterSense
24-Apr-2012, 07:31
I had a foma 100 sheet that had a coating defect--a very distinct, round bubble about 2mm across. Of course, it was in the sky. It's the only coating defect I've seen on any film. The film is beautiful, but if I have to shoot 2 sheets to hedge against a coating defect, I can afford to shoot TMY, which is what I usually do.

Emil Schildt
24-Apr-2012, 07:52
I only use other brands than Foma if someone gives it to me for free....

(I like it that much, and don't have much money.... good combination)

Pete Watkins
24-Apr-2012, 08:00
I'll go along with Emil and I would like to confirm that the bloke in Norway is really good to deal with. I'll be back onto him soon.
Pete.

Drew Wiley
24-Apr-2012, 08:33
I too had an instance of pinhole defects in Foma 200, and it was right in the middle of a
sky in a shot that took a lot of effort to get. And by the way, this film was never even
close to 200 speed, but around 100. That's a huge difference in speed between TMY, esp in 8x10 where it really counts. But still, the unique tonality of this film would make it truly
tempting for certain applications, and I did get a few magnificent prints in those lucky cases where I could retouch or crop the scratches. It would be helpful if anyone using
current 200 Arista film would provide feedback concerning current quality control.

Pete Watkins
24-Apr-2012, 10:50
Well I've got through a few hundred sheets of Foma 200 with no problems (the same applies to Foma 100). All that I can say is use a pre-wash, use a diluted developer, use a water stop bath and use a neurtral or alkali fixer, no problems. I also use a Patterson Orbital with contstant agitation. Send me all your "problem" Foma film and I'll test at least 50% of the sheets for you at no cost to yourselves.
Pete.

Drew Wiley
24-Apr-2012, 11:55
Got nothin' to do with scratches in processing - I can tell when that happens. The scratches I had were always parallel to the film margin itself, typically about an inch in, so were obviously due to how the film was transported thru cutting or packaging. And the problem was on most of the sheets. It was a dry scratch, not wet like the tear-effect when film is soft. You could see it on unexposed sheets even. Arista-branded film.

Ian Gordon Bilson
26-Apr-2012, 22:16
Unless you are truly poverty -stricken (in which case there are other,cheaper,ways to spend your time), I can think of no worse thing than to take a momentous image and find its integrity compromised by a coating defect.
False economy? - I think so.
If you are testing lenses,or looking for a light leak,or refining your technique,second-tier films have their place.

SamReeves
26-Apr-2012, 22:35
Price is right, that's all I gotta say about Fomapan (aka Arista EDU)!

cosmicexplosion
27-Apr-2012, 03:03
Well I've got through a few hundred sheets of Foma 200 with no problems (the same applies to Foma 100). All that I can say is use a pre-wash, use a diluted developer, use a water stop bath and use a neurtral or alkali fixer, no problems. I also use a Patterson Orbital with contstant agitation. Send me all your "problem" Foma film and I'll test at least 50% of the sheets for you at no cost to yourselves.
Pete.

water stop bath?
alkali fixer?
pray tell...

John Kasaian
28-Apr-2012, 09:55
If the film records what I see to my satisfaction, thats what I'm after.
I can screw up any shot on any emulsion made.
The best is what you do, not what you use to do what you do.
A fine fiddler does not need a Stradivarius to make beautiful music.

Pete Watkins
28-Apr-2012, 15:27
Cosmic,
5 rinses in tap water (ours is good and certinaly not acidic). Then a self mixed neutral or alkali fixer. I've conrtacted a virus that has wiped a lot of my stuff but get a copy of The Darkroom Cookbook.
Pete.

cosmicexplosion
28-Apr-2012, 18:00
Thanks pete will look into book.

Frank Pittel
29-Apr-2012, 11:29
I've got a box of fomapan-100 ordered and expect to get it in a few days. I'm wondering what people develop it with. I should mention I mix my own developers and I'm not interested in developers I can't mix from scratch.

evan clarke
29-Apr-2012, 12:08
I've got a box of fomapan-100 ordered and expect to get it in a few days. I'm wondering what people develop it with. I should mention I mix my own developers and I'm not interested in developers I can't mix from scratch.

Try FX37...

Frank Pittel
29-Apr-2012, 12:22
Try FX37...

Since posting I'm starting think that I'll give fx2 a try. I already use it with Efke-25 and like that combo a lot. My thinking is that both the efke and fomapan are old emulsions and I like the results I'm getting from the efke/fx2 combo.

jp
29-Apr-2012, 12:38
I use pyrocat hd, hc110, and caffenol-c with foma-100.

polyglot
29-Apr-2012, 21:17
I've got a box of fomapan-100 ordered and expect to get it in a few days. I'm wondering what people develop it with. I should mention I mix my own developers and I'm not interested in developers I can't mix from scratch.

I use D76 1+1 rotary 9:00 for that at EI50; comes out lovely. You can DIY D76, right?

Frank Pittel
29-Apr-2012, 22:02
I use D76 1+1 rotary 9:00 for that at EI50; comes out lovely. You can DIY D76, right?

I think I can mix up a little D76! :) As of right now I'm looking to try D76h, fx37 and fx2. I've done a bit of looking around on google and have seen some (heavily photoshoped I'm sure) scans of fomapan-100 and am looking forward to trying it!

Pete Watkins
30-Apr-2012, 04:00
I can confirm that D-76H diluted 1-1 is great for all the Foma films. I'm lucky enough to have Patterson Orbitals so I use contstant agitation. I wear gloves and do two 2 minute washes with water at the developer temprature before I start, use water stop baths (about 5 at the developer temp0 and finish up with either an alkali of neutral fix.
Pete.

polyglot
30-Apr-2012, 06:18
I think I can mix up a little D76! :) As of right now I'm looking to try D76h, fx37 and fx2. I've done a bit of looking around on google and have seen some (heavily photoshoped I'm sure) scans of fomapan-100 and am looking forward to trying it!

Some non-shopped (except for contrast+cloning) examples (http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=24125157%40N00&q=foma100+d76+4x5&m=tags). You can even see the stripe where my scanner CCD needs cleaning!

cosmicexplosion
1-May-2012, 04:53
I only use other brands than Foma if someone gives it to me for free....

(I like it that much, and don't have much money.... good combination)

good to hear,

you seem to have spent all your money on cameras! or was that on models? either way, i thought you were really rich when i saw all your cameras!

Ramiro Elena
1-May-2012, 04:58
He is poor because he bought all those cameras. If he sold them, he would be rich again :D

cosmicexplosion
1-May-2012, 05:14
maybe open up a museum/art gallery/shop/school, the you could charge entry, plus donations, sell art plus get commissions, and for any one who gets inspired, you can teach them, plus sell them fomopan....

Frank Pittel
1-May-2012, 22:04
Some non-shopped (except for contrast+cloning) examples (http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=24125157%40N00&q=foma100+d76+4x5&m=tags). You can even see the stripe where my scanner CCD needs cleaning!

Very nice! I'm looking forward to getting a box of it to shoot! I just wish my order would get here already!!

Emil Schildt
2-May-2012, 16:23
good to hear,

you seem to have spent all your money on cameras! or was that on models? either way, i thought you were really rich when i saw all your cameras!

well - I never payed anything to any model, so....

I should sell some stuff... but I am even worse as a seller as I am as a buyer... Much more fun to give away (which should explain something about my "wealth"....)