90mm f6.8 Angulon shutter problem- again

[anglophone1]

About a year ago I acquired (here) a 90mm Angulon in a compur rapid ( no cable release ) shutter, for all round WA use on a pacemaker graphic.
The seller was concerned at the shutter (it seemed a bit sticky) so gave me a polarioid copal 0 at no extra cost.
Shutter speeds seemed OK but need to be able to mount cable release so I renounced lens in Polaroid shutter, all worked OK (I thought) but I seemed to be getting a lot of overexposed sheets, I have finally traced the problem to the fact that the rear cell on the lens actually fils the diaphragm blades so thats no solution.
A new shutter costs fortune so seemed best to buy another Angulon in a syncro compur, with cable release.
Done, bought one at good price, but guess what it has a sticky shutter (even at B) below 1/50!
So what now?
Get this one CLAed? But who? Since my local guy shut, yet to find anyone here in France that I have confidence in to do repair work. In UK/London? (there monthly) In Europe?
Or try to do myself?
Or?




M

[E. von Hoegh]

You really need to assume that any older lens will require a CLA of the shutter before it can be considered reliable. Unfortunately, many think a bath in lighter fluid is a CLA.

[BrianShaw]

So what now?

Emil speaks words of wisdom, which I totally agree with. You'll get all sorts of other advise and some might actually work. Some approaches might work temporarily, and other advise might convert a poorly operating shutter into a totally broken shutter. It depends on your goals and needs. My approach is to realize, not just assume but REALIZE, that these older shutters almost alsways could benefit from a proper overhaul to make them RELIABLE. Other approaches might make them functional but with varying degrees of reliability. What is importrant to you depends on your goals and needs.

I don't think you are throwing good money after bad yet because cable release capability is quite important to have. But what are your expectations and needs? You need to tell us because all of us may have a different impression of your expectations and needs that yours really are.

If you want a reliable tool to shoot with you might be best served by sending out for a proper servicing. Given no local shops it will cost you some money and take some time. But you'll likely get back a properly operating shutter that you can work with for years with no worries. If you just want something to "play around with" (which is a noble goal too... as long as you know it has associated risks!) then you might consider flooding it with lighter fluid and seeing if you can get it working good enough.

I don't know much about France. OK, I know nothing at all... but I think if you ask around there must be camera repairmen who remember how to properlyt overhaul a shutter.

[Dan Fromm]

Clive, here's a list: http://www.collection-appareils.fr/general/html/reparateurs.php

Posters on the French LF form ( http://www.galerie-photo.info/forumgp/ ) speak very highly of Gerard Metrot. http://www.photosuffren.com/ You should join the French LF forum, anglophone or not.

[anglophone1]

Words of wisdom and useful resources, however my experience so far does not encourage me to follow these resources (btw after 20 years here French pretty good) so would be grateful for other French resources or ones in Europe outside France or indeed other ideas, I'm guessing WD40 is the current version of lighter fuel!
I just need my 90mm (now have two) in a shutter that works at all speeds with a cable release.
One shutter works all speeds but no cable release facility, one has cable release but is sticky at speeds below 1/50.
Thanks
C

[BrianShaw]

I'm guessing WD40 is the current version of lighter fuel!

No it isn't.

[Michael E]

If you want to buy another shutter, you have to make sure the threads are recessed. The 90mm Angulon cells have a little collar. If the threads on the shutter extend all the way to the edge of the barrel, the spacing is off.

I would recommend you have the shutter with the cable release socket cleaned. I have the same lens in a shutter without a cable release socket and it is frustrating. In Leipzig, we still have a local shop that does good work. They have worked on my equipment for the last 15 years and I am very satisfied. Germany is not exactly around the corner, but if you are interested, send me a PM and I give you the contact data. Cleaning a shutter usually costs about 50 Euros.

Michael

[Leigh]

I'm guessing WD40 is the current version of lighter fuel!
ABSOLUTELY NOT!

WD-40 is paraffin in a solvent. When the solvent evaporates you're left with solid paraffin.

I can think of nothing worse to put in a shutter. It's even worse than lighter fluid.

Squirting the shutter full of lighter fluid or other solvent is no better than throwing it in the trash can.

A shutter requires two or three different lubricants, applied correctly, with the right amount in the proper places.

Squirting it full of solvent dissolves those lubricants, allowing them to migrate, removing them from where
they belong and putting them where they don't belong.

Get a proper CLA.

- Leigh

[lenser]

Clive,

i don't know what the customs issues might be for repairs compared to purchase (she is in an L.A. suburb), but I've used Carol at Flutotscamerarepair.com for about 8-9 shutters over the last 7 years with totally pleasing results. She is my hero on this stuff and her prices are extremely reasonable. Give her an email shout and see what she has to say.

[emjos]

It may not be impossible to get it working yourself. I have successfully repaired shutters on my medium format folders as well as a Press-Compur on my large format camera. Often the slow times only need the timer unit to be removed, dipped in spirit and some careful spinning of the wheels. Sometime one has to even to get the aperture blades cleaned but not often (that is considerably trickier!). The major problem is getting screw drivers and pincers of good quality and work slowly, taking photographs now and then for the reassembly.

I have timed my shutters with an oscilloscope and they were OK after my intrusion:)

Look at http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/zeiss%20ikonta%20cleaning.html to get a feel for the work involved.

[brucep]

I recomend this company in the UK that I have tried a few times. Cost is about £80 (~100 Euros) when postage etc is added on.
http://www.bonwcameras.co.uk/

[rlee2010]

I have finally traced the problem to the fact that the rear cell on the lens actually fils the diaphragm blades so thats no solution.http://www.dingsme.info/avatar4.jpg

[IanG]

Try going to a camera fair and looking for a better shutter, back in March I picked up 6 shutters for £40 (3 for £20) some had lens elements. 4 of the shutters were Compur/Copal #0 and all smooth and accurate (they were ex-stock from a retired camera repairer). One was a Compur Rapid. Just last weekend I picked up yet another shutter a Pronto Press #0 from the same seller for £5. With spare shutters I can now send a couple of Copals for repiar and keep using the lenses.

So shutters needn't cost very much.

I've used Isopropyl alcohol to resurrect quite a few old Compurs it's less aggressive than lighter fuel and unless you use many repeated flushes is unlikely to remove all the lubricants. I use the bare minimum to free up the slower speeds then make sure the shutter and aperture blades are clean.

One thing you have to weigh up is the cost of a CLA can sometimes be far more expensive than just getting another shutter or shutter/lens combination in good condition. Most repairers in the UK have a £50 minimum charge. I can also recommed Black on White (http://http://www.bonwcameras.co.uk/) who have done 3 camera/shutter repairs for me in the past 5 years.

Ian