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View Full Version : old triplet lenses? are they good or bad idea?



jessicadittmer
18-Apr-2012, 06:25
I've read a few threads here about petvals and triplets and all ....still confuses me some but I have been looking for more of a "normal" lens for the 8x10 and I'm one that likes soft blurred edges and a few flaws and a unique look- shoot portraits, hands,etc...objects with hands. I'm now using the 9 1/2" lens and I like it so far but the triplet I found is 304 12" nickel over brass Spencer Cooke Triplet lens....not a lot of money- are these okay? I know I won't have a "shutter" and will have to rig up a lens cover I guess it says it is f5.6 though which I'm not sure about...any advice? I would have to mount it into a lensboard I guess, no idea how to do that with non threaded,etc... any info, suggestions or scolding welcome...I want to learn. Thanks!

This is the info posted by seller:

This is a nice Spencer 12" (304mm) brass lens. The lens configuration is a Cooke triplet of three elements in three groups. The barrel is nickel plated brass. The glass is clear with some very light cleaning marks and internal dust. No fungus or scratches. The dimensions of the lens are 2 15/16 (75mm) inches long. The barrel is 2 5/8" (65mm) wide. The front and rear elements are both 2 3/8" (56mm) wide. The barrel edge is stamped with with "12" - Spencer - Buffalo". The lens will cover 8x10, with ample room for movements. The focal length is 12". (304mm)

This is a beautiful lens and can easily be adapted for large format photography work. This is an artist's lens; the center of the image is sharp and begins to blur toward the peripherals giving a nice aesthetically pleasing smooth bokeh.

unixrevolution
18-Apr-2012, 06:40
From what little I understand myself, it should come with, ideally, a mounting flange. As for a shutter, you can either use a Packard shutter or use a lens cap as your shutter with extremely slow media...think wet plate or shooting directly onto paper.

Jim Jones
18-Apr-2012, 06:47
There is some kind of flange on that lens which should make mounting easy. I don't see any way of adjusting the aperture. Shooting wide open is sometimes impractical.

E. von Hoegh
18-Apr-2012, 06:50
I've read a few threads here about petvals and triplets and all ....still confuses me some but I have been looking for more of a "normal" lens for the 8x10 and I'm one that likes soft blurred edges and a few flaws and a unique look- shoot portraits, hands,etc...objects with hands. I'm now using the 9 1/2" lens and I like it so far but the triplet I found is 304 12" nickel over brass Spencer Cooke Triplet lens....not a lot of money- are these okay? I know I won't have a "shutter" and will have to rig up a lens cover I guess it says it is f5.6 though which I'm not sure about...any advice? I would have to mount it into a lensboard I guess, no idea how to do that with non threaded,etc... any info, suggestions or scolding welcome...I want to learn. Thanks!

This is the info posted by seller:

This is a nice Spencer 12" (304mm) brass lens. The lens configuration is a Cooke triplet of three elements in three groups. The barrel is nickel plated brass. The glass is clear with some very light cleaning marks and internal dust. No fungus or scratches. The dimensions of the lens are 2 15/16 (75mm) inches long. The barrel is 2 5/8" (65mm) wide. The front and rear elements are both 2 3/8" (56mm) wide. The barrel edge is stamped with with "12" - Spencer - Buffalo". The lens will cover 8x10, with ample room for movements. The focal length is 12". (304mm)

This is a beautiful lens and can easily be adapted for large format photography work. This is an artist's lens; the center of the image is sharp and begins to blur toward the peripherals giving a nice aesthetically pleasing smooth bokeh.

Unless the lens is going very cheaply, avoid it. It won't cover 8x10 sharply, doesn't have a shutter, flange, etc etc. Look for an old convertible Symmar, they sometimes go begging. The 300 Commercial Ektar is good, too, but the prices seem to be climbing. There is a very good primer on lenses on the LFPF homepage.

jessicadittmer
18-Apr-2012, 06:53
thank you! I'll check out the homepage, I forgot about that. I easily get confused with all the options out there.

E. von Hoegh
18-Apr-2012, 07:07
The 300mm/f6.3 Ilex (Tessar types) often go cheaply, and are a very good lens.

If you are on a strict budget, you are far better off buying one lens that works for you, at a fair price so you can sell it on later if need be, than buying several cheap lenses that don't do what you want them to. Don't be seduced by description of the "wonderful artistic quality" of the aberrant corners, either. You can make a sharp lens fuzzy, but not the reverse.

John Kasaian
18-Apr-2012, 07:19
What is it about your 9-1/2" lens that is not getting the job done for you?
As tempting as it is, please don't run off chasing "magic bullets---unless, say you find you really need a longer or shorter lens (and theres not a lot of difference between a 9-1/2 and a 300) If you've got $$ burning a hole in your pocket, buying a box of film will take care of that in a hurry! :)

jessicadittmer
18-Apr-2012, 07:30
oh I'm happy with this one so far. just was curious what these triplets were- in case I decide to go for a more "normal size" lens LOL. Jim actually sent a few lens things that screw onto this one when he sold me this lens that do different things so I'll be experimenting with them. I found an old petzval in that darkroom stuff I bought cheap - smallish on a lensboard with some writing on the side all scripty and pretty but haven't investigated more yet what it is. I know the guy shot 4x5 and 5x7 formats from the enlargers that I got from his darkroom but he has been dead over 20 years so I can't ask him...maybe searching through his books I'll find notes. crossing fingers. It has a weird thing inserted into it with real chewed up looking edges (thin metal) like it was used for an "aperture" with a rough edge. very interesting looking.

jp
18-Apr-2012, 08:05
If you are wanting to go crazy trying out old lenses without shutters, a working 4x5 speed graphic is a good choice, especially one of the anniversary or pre-anniversary ones with the wooden lensboards. Anyone with basic woodworking skills can make new lensboards very cheaply for it, and drill them out for the new lenses you acquire. You'll have a built in shutter from 1/10-1/1000 sec.

I've got a couple of Meyer trioplan triplets which are absolutely awesome. No shutter, but a good barrel lens with iris for 4x5. My yashica TLR has a triplet lens which is excellent too. It's a good people lens choice. Not sure what the affordable options are for 8x10. I have a B&L Sigmar triplet for 8x10, but it's quite expensive and exceeds awesome.

jessicadittmer
18-Apr-2012, 08:28
i do have a 4x5 like you mention with wood front...I may have to play with that some time. It's been hiding for a few years in the case.:o

desertrat
18-Apr-2012, 08:46
That lens was made by Spencer Lens Co., who manufactured microscopes and accessories from 1895 to 1935 when they were bought by American Optical Co. and became AO's scientific instrument division. Microscopes with the AO-Spencer logo were manufactured into the 1980s. Steve Neeley's AO-Spencer microscope website has some old Spencer catalogs, and this lens shows up in the 1924 catalog:

http://webmight.com/~psneeley/downloads/1924Cat.zip

After downloading the file, unzip it and the catalog pages are on individual .jpg files. The 'pictorial' lens is on page 117. This appears to be the only photographic lens they were making during that period, and I don't think they were ever big in photographic lenses. I have a couple of Spencer microscopes from that period, and the optics are pretty decent. The lens in the catalog has an iris diaphragm, and the catalog states it can be made sharp enough to compare to standard landscape lenses by stopping down to f12 or smaller. The lens on Ebay doesn't seem to be quite all there. I would avoid it, unless it was selling for less than $50, which it isn't.

If you're looking at old lenses on Ebay, there's a 12" Turner Reich Triple up right now with the current bid at $9.99. Item number 130681874682. It appears to be an early one in an ancient volute shutter, and the glass appears to be OK. The shutter appears to be intact, but the seller doesn't mention and probably doens't know if it works. Front and rear cells are present, but the seller only mentions the focal lengths of the front cell, at 12" and 28". 12" would be the combined focal length. The rear cell is probably 21". The seller only has 6 feedbacks. Normally this would make me cautious, but he recently sold, shipped and delivered a $75 item, and appears to be trying to get established as a seller. Since he has few feedbacks, the lens will probably go for less than 100 dollars, but of course these things are hard to predict. I would be tempted to bid on it if I didn't already have one in a Betax shutter that looks and works almost like new.


The 300mm/f6.3 Ilex (Tessar types) often go cheaply, and are a very good lens.

I agree. Igor's Camera has a 12" f6.3 Ilex Paragon for sale for $95. He lists it as 'EX+', but also 'as is'. Might be worth an email to see how good/bad the glass is and how many of the shutter speeds are working.

You can also do landscapes with your 9-1/2" Wolly. It may not cover into the corners, but there's no rule that says you have to make a full size 8X10 print from the negative. You can make a smaller print, say whole plate size or 6-1/2" X 8-1/2" by making a mask for you printing frame, or you could put an oval mask in front of an 8X10 print. Lots of possibilities.

Peter Gomena
18-Apr-2012, 08:49
Your 91/2-inch lens would serve very well as a portrait or general-purpose lens on your 4x5 camera. It's an excellent portrait focal length for that format if you have enough bellows, and it should.

Peter Gomena

E. von Hoegh
18-Apr-2012, 08:52
Spencer Buffalo was a class act. I have a set of their 7x50 binoculars made for the US Navy in 1943, coated, and when compared to a modern pair of Swarovski 7x50s, you realise just how many "improvements" exist only in the minds of the advertising copywriters.

E. von Hoegh
18-Apr-2012, 08:58
Your 91/2-inch lens would serve very well as a portrait or general-purpose lens on your 4x5 camera. It's an excellent portrait focal length for that format if you have enough bellows, and it should.

Peter Gomena

Yes, it would be an excellent 4x5 lens, if a bit long for a possibly small studio. Most 4x5 cameras will have long enough bellows, which cannot be said for 12"/300mm lenses. I have a 9 1/2" Dagor that I use on 4x5 almost as much as I use it on 8x10, I like the focal length on both.

goamules
18-Apr-2012, 10:30
The seller of that projection lens has learned that if she puts the word "Cooke" in the title of any salvaged projector lens she'll get more lookers, and occasionally sell one for about 5 times the going rate. Saying a projection lens is a "Cooke Triplet", while technically correct because that company came up with the design, is like saying any petzval with the thick rear element at the very back is a "Dallmeyer Petzval." Or calling any tessar a "Zeiss Tessar" even if Zeiss didn't make it.

jessicadittmer
18-Apr-2012, 12:42
whew! thank you for all this good information! lots to look at and I'll keep at it with the one I have too.

John Kasaian
18-Apr-2012, 21:15
For a longer lens for your 8x10 you might consider a 14" or longer for greater effect. A 14" Commercial Ektar or 375mm Ilex Paragon would give you good service. If you prefer a convertible, may want to consider a Wollensak 1a

Steven Tribe
21-Apr-2012, 02:49
I think this is a lens to avoid - I found the listing.
Spencer made a lot of contract projectors for the US government.
They were called Delineascopes (or something like that).
I am pretty sure that this lens has be removed from (an unsaleable) projector.
You can see a typical Spencer projector at 150800849343. A complete projector costs far less than the lens removed from it!
I am sure that the 300+mm triplet is well suited to 5x7" work, but would require you to either mount front stops or cut a slot in the barrel for waterhouse stops.
This can be a difficult operation for barrels mounted in a sleeve.

Chauncey Walden
21-Apr-2012, 08:33
Yes, these projectors would be hard to move these days. Some years ago I bought a very nice AO Spencer Corporate Boardroom Projector with 5 late coated lenses of various lengths (all triplets), all sorts of replacement projection bulbs, and condensers for $35. My intent was to use it for 6x9 transparency projection.

jessicadittmer
21-Apr-2012, 08:39
wow thanks...I learn new things all the time here, so glad to be a member with people that know what they are doing and offer advice. I have so much to learn...