...another zone system question!

[photojeff3200]

So, I have a fairly good grasp on the zone system. I understand placing the shadows in zone 2 or 3 and developing for the highlights. Normal developing is at a 5 zone spread yadda yadda yadda. But, I was taking a picture yesterday of my very blonde daughter in front of a whitish area and realized that there were no shadows, or anything dark for that matter! How do I apply the zone system when the zones are basically middle gray and up? Thanks for the advice.

[Ken Lee]

Place her skin on Zone VI and go. If her skin is darker or lighter, then place it accordingly.

Unless the light is very extreme, you can adjust contrast to taste, later. In fact, if there are no other tones than her and the white wall, you can underexpose a little (like 1 stop) and place that data in the middle of the curve, rather than at the top (where things tend to flatten out). You'll get a better negative that way. (Shh... don't tell anyone).

If the sun is shining on the wall, then you need to meter the shadows of her face and then develop so that the wall stays in the scale.

As you know, the Zone System merely tells us what we are doing, and with that knowledge we are free to do what we like. We don't always have to have something at the low end of the scale.

[photojeff3200]

Thanks Ken, sometimes I feel that the the Zone System is a cult and I find it hard to think outside the commandments of its leader!

[Ken Lee]

True enough !

I presumed that you're shooting b&w film that you can process yourself.

[photojeff3200]

Yep, I recently switched from my beloved Rodinal to HC-110, I use tri-x 320 film and a 5x7 Conley camera. However, shooting film might be a moot point. Ever since switching chemistry (and all the new testing that brought) I've found it hard to get my groove back. I'm waiting for the day when Kodak stops making tri-x, (I'll probably just start drinking after that.) I'm taking a wet plate class next weekend and I hope this process will ween me away from The Cult.

[Peter Langham]

Remember that the most important step of the zone system is visualization (that is from Ansel, not me). He said that the zone system without visualization is nothing but finger counting. So, in use, you first determine what you want the outcome to be, then use the various technical solutions it offers to help produce that outcome. You may not want those shadows all the way down in zone II or III. Maybe the picture you visualize has more open shadows, so you move them up to zone IV, reduce development, and create a different outcome, consistent with you vision rather than according to a rule that tells you where shadows belong. In your portrait example, if you want all the values to be up higher where you initially found them, the use that metering and development combination. If you want a different outcome, alter the technique. Reduce exposure and increase development to get a more contrasty negative that would allow you a more full range of tones.
While I fully agree that the zone system tends to have gained a cult like status, it was developed simply to explain the behavior of exposure and development so the you can come closer to predetermining the outcome. It is not meant to be a set of rules, but a simplification of the science.

[Old-N-Feeble]

Shoot high key. :)

[alexn]

Shoot high key. :)

What he said, place the bright wall at zone IX or IIX and shoot.... Nice for something different.

[photojeff3200]

Thanks for all the replies! So, essentially, I should just meter her face, place the reading at zone 7 and develop normally? That seems WAY to easy.

[Leigh]

The ZS is not a law. It's an analytical method that can be used, if desired, in appropriate situations.

It provides a framework and regimen within which to assess the subject and the lighting.

Given that information, it provides guidance regarding film development.

The trick is to understand when it is NOT appropriate, rather than trying to fit every situation into it.

- Leigh

[photojeff3200]

I guess I've been using the zone system like a crutch. It's easy to apply when faced with all the tones under the sun like a mid morning landscape. But when a scene presents itself that falls outside a commonly lit situation, I forget how to walk. Makes me dream of having a TTL metering system again. DAMN you Ansel Adams!

[Leigh]

Yeah, it's easy to get into a rut.

For the situation you described, I'd use an incident meter, shoot what it says, and use normal development.

If the white background has any texture, I'd maybe spot it to make sure it doesn't blow out.
But I shoot Acros. It's impossible to blow highlights with that film, even if you really really want to. :D

- Leigh

[Kimberly Anderson]

Here's my rule of thumb:

- if you have to wear sunglasses, N-2
- if you have to squint, N-1
- if you can see normally, N+1
- if it's cloudy and you can see normally, N+2

Ambient meter and off you go.

[Frank Petronio]

Here's my rule of thumb:

- if you have to wear sunglasses, N-2
- if you have to squint, N-1
- if you can see normally, N+1
- if it's cloudy and you can see normally, N+2

Ambient meter and off you go.

Haha

[Peter Langham]

Jeff, Instead of thinking of the zone system as defining what you will do, think of it as an opportunity to consider the possibilities and then help you come up with a plan to implement the possibility you choose.

[Chuck P.]

I guess I've been using the zone system like a crutch. It's easy to apply when faced with all the tones under the sun like a mid morning landscape. But when a scene presents itself that falls outside a commonly lit situation, I forget how to walk. Makes me dream of having a TTL metering system again. DAMN you Ansel Adams!

The ZS is just as simple as walking, the problem undoubtedly, is that a lot of folks just can't walk and apply the ZS at the same time.................it's really very simple, that's the beauty of it.

[SergeiR]

sometimes I feel that the the Zone System is a cult
it is. There are other ways , at least for portraits.

[Drew Wiley]

The Druids had it all figured out when they built Stonehenge. Now if we can just figure out
Stonehenge ... Actually, the Zone System is just a kind of useful shorthand to pigeonhole
your methods. I pity anyone who makes a religion out of it. Maybe Minor White examined
the entrails of an owl every time he planned to enter the darkroom, but otherwise, it ain't
all that complicated.

[Lenny Eiger]

The zone system is not a cult, its just the way things work - in b&w.

Best is to keep it simple. Point it at the zone 3.... Do that 100 times and you will figure out exactly what you can and can't get...

Lenny