890mm APO NIKKOR IMAGE CIRCLE @ 1:1 & INFINITY

[Craig Tuffin]

I've just purchased an 890mm Apo Nikkor f11 for a song that I want to experiment with LARGE paper negatives etc. I realise that these process lenses were designed and corrected for 1:1 work, and I've read the scores of arguments about whether they are sharp at infinity. I also discovered an entertaining read in regards to the 'flat field myth', where the discussion about flat and curved field designs really make a difference. It seems that many people are using the Apos in the field with success.

Can anyone tell me what the projected image size for one of these would be at 1:1 and infinity...I'm hoping to get larger than 24" square? Has anyone got any first-hand experience with one that they might share?

[Dan Fromm]

Learn to use the forum's search function.

Learn how to calculate circle covered's diameter from angle covered. Apo-Nikkor angles covered are here: http://www.galerie-photo.com/apo-process-nikkors-en.html

The diameter of the circle covered at 1:1 is twice the diameter of the circle covered at infinity. Angle covered is the same.

[Craig Tuffin]

I did use the search function...it's how I got the information I mentioned in the original post.

Your link was excellent though because it gave me the angle of coverage as 42 degrees. So I can then calculate:
Coverage = 2x(Focal length x tan (1/2 angle of coverage)
2x(890mm x tan (42/2)
= 683mm (27")
So at 1:1, I should be getting approximately a 54" diameter image circle (correct me if I'm wrong :p)

[E. von Hoegh]

You may find this calculator handy. http://imaginatorium.org/stuff/angle.htm

[Dan Fromm]

I did use the search function...it's how I got the information I mentioned in the original posthttp://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?86484-Apo-and-Process-Nikkor-info&highlight=apo-nikkor

That's interesting. This http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?86484-Apo-and-Process-Nikkor-info&highlight=apo-nikkor is the 28th link returned by a search on apo-nikkor. That is, it is on the first page returned. You may have tried something cuter.

[Drew Wiley]

But you left out the variable of the f/stop itself. The "official" angle of view on a process
lens is probably at f/22, though there are exceptions. But at the smaller stops likely to be
used in the field, the image circle is going to be considerably larger. I can't give you a specific answer. The longest Apo Nikkor I own is 760 and I have never field tested it yet.

[Craig Tuffin]

But you left out the variable of the f/stop itself. The "official" angle of view on a process
lens is probably at f/22, though there are exceptions. But at the smaller stops likely to be
used in the field, the image circle is going to be considerably larger. I can't give you a specific answer. The longest Apo Nikkor I own is 760 and I have never field tested it yet.

Thanks Drew, very much appreciated!

With f11 as it's widest aperture I was going to stop it down 2 to 3 stops (as it suggested in Dan Fromms article :)) and do some tests, so f22 sounds great. I will be shooting with the lens wide open for some 1:1 portraits so it will be interesting to see what I can get.

Cheers for the help guys!

[Struan Gray]

I only use 4-4 dialyte process lenses in shorter lengths (240-480 mm) but unlike, say, plasmats or their Celor-derived cousins they don't gain very much image circle when stopping down. Older ones will illuminate a nice big plate because they lack the field stops of modern versions, but if you want sharp definition into the corners at infinity reckon on them covering their focal length at best.

[Craig Tuffin]

Thanks for your help everyone but on another note (but still in regards to this lens) I just received my 890mm Apo Nikkor in the mail and noticed that in front of the aperture ring, there sits another ring with markings from 1 - 90. When I rotate it, sometime internal moves, but it isn't visible when looking through the lens...can anyone tell me what this might do?

[Hermes07]

Thanks for your help everyone but on another note (but still in regards to this lens) I just received my 890mm Apo Nikkor in the mail and noticed that in front of the aperture ring, there sits another ring with markings from 1 - 90. When I rotate it, sometime internal moves, but it isn't visible when looking through the lens...can anyone tell me what this might do?

Opens up a slot to insert all your process paraphernalia - stops, filters, e.t.c.

[adam satushek]

Hi Craig, sorry I don't have any information for you....I am trying to research long process lenses for use on 4x5 and 8x10. Just curious, do you have a link for the read on the 'flat field myth.' And if you don't mind sharing, where did you find your 890mm for a 'song'?

[Dan Fromm]

Adam, PMFJI. Even with many eyes looking for bargains, there's occasionally an anomalous price on eBay (.com, .co.uk, .fr, .de, .es, .it) or on a site. IIRC, my 420 Apo Nikkor came from a seller on eBay.com, my 610 came from a seller on Astromart (Google found it bundled with a 305), my 610 from a seller on ebay.com, and my 900 Apo-Saphir (not a peep out of you, Nick, if you see this) from a seller on eBay. de. The most expensive cost $200 delivered, the others were considerably less.

Patience helps. These lenses aren't that common and the longer, the scarcer. If you want long lenses right now, put up a WTB on this forum's classifieds section and be prepared to pay. Pay close attention to eBay.de, there are usually many Apo Ronars, most shorter than you want, on offer there.

Since I'm essentially out of the market, here's my ebay search string (artar, claron, germinar, "gr ii", grii, ronar, apotal, apo-nikkor,apo-saphir, apo-skopar,apo-tessar,"process lens") You don't want a G-Claron or Konica Hexanon GR II, they're all too short for you, so drop those terms. Also consider looking for Industar 11-m, they come in a variety of focal lengths of which a few might be long enough. Soviet apo-tessars, see www.arnecroell.com for east bloc process lenses.

[adam satushek]

Adam, PMFJI. Even with many eyes looking for bargains, there's occasionally an anomalous price on eBay (.com, .co.uk, .fr, .de, .es, .it) or on a site. IIRC, my 420 Apo Nikkor came from a seller on eBay.com, my 610 came from a seller on Astromart (Google found it bundled with a 305), my 610 from a seller on ebay.com, and my 900 Apo-Saphir (not a peep out of you, Nick, if you see this) from a seller on eBay. de. The most expensive cost $200 delivered, the others were considerably less.

Patience helps. These lenses aren't that common and the longer, the scarcer. If you want long lenses right now, put up a WTB on this forum's classifieds section and be prepared to pay. Pay close attention to eBay.de, there are usually many Apo Ronars, most shorter than you want, on offer there.

Since I'm essentially out of the market, here's my ebay search string (artar, claron, germinar, "gr ii", grii, ronar, apotal, apo-nikkor,apo-saphir, apo-skopar,apo-tessar,"process lens") You don't want a G-Claron or Konica Hexanon GR II, they're all too short for you, so drop those terms. Also consider looking for Industar 11-m, they come in a variety of focal lengths of which a few might be long enough. Soviet apo-tessars, see www.arnecroell.com for east bloc process lenses.

Awesome! Thanks so much Dan! I really appreciate it, that is wonderful information!

Just one question....PMFJI..? Not sure what that means....Private Message For ...something, perhaps??

Thanks! Adam

[Hermes07]

Adam, PMFJI. Even with many eyes looking for bargains, there's occasionally an anomalous price on eBay (.com, .co.uk, .fr, .de, .es, .it) or on a site. IIRC, my 420 Apo Nikkor came from a seller on eBay.com, my 610 came from a seller on Astromart (Google found it bundled with a 305), my 610 from a seller on ebay.com, and my 900 Apo-Saphir (not a peep out of you, Nick, if you see this) from a seller on eBay. de. The most expensive cost $200 delivered, the others were considerably less.

Patience helps. These lenses aren't that common and the longer, the scarcer. If you want long lenses right now, put up a WTB on this forum's classifieds section and be prepared to pay. Pay close attention to eBay.de, there are usually many Apo Ronars, most shorter than you want, on offer there.

Since I'm essentially out of the market, here's my ebay search string (artar, claron, germinar, "gr ii", grii, ronar, apotal, apo-nikkor,apo-saphir, apo-skopar,apo-tessar,"process lens") You don't want a G-Claron or Konica Hexanon GR II, they're all too short for you, so drop those terms. Also consider looking for Industar 11-m, they come in a variety of focal lengths of which a few might be long enough. Soviet apo-tessars, see www.arnecroell.com for east bloc process lenses.

Meh... kids' stuff

[Dan Fromm]

PMFJI = pardon me for jumping in

Kids' stuff? Absolutely. I'm in my second childhood.

[LF_rookie_to_be]

http://www.cubestories.com/category/news/

[Craig Tuffin]

Hi Craig, sorry I don't have any information for you....I am trying to research long process lenses for use on 4x5 and 8x10. Just curious, do you have a link for the read on the 'flat field myth.' And if you don't mind sharing, where did you find your 890mm for a 'song'?

Hi Adam,

Sorry I can't give you the direct link but I'm at work as a photography teacher and some of the sites get blocked by the department (for some strange reason)....I'd have to give it to you when I get home. In the meantime it was an article at www.wisner.com...here's another URL (I have access to) that will take you there and give you another read as well. I know it's talking 35mm but the information often still applies...

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1030&message=24175676

FYI Ken Lee gave me a return PM and answered my other question about the unknown slot, I thought someone else might like the answer as well so this is what he said...'Those are degrees from 0 to 90, and are related to inserts which let you align the image with square dots used in printing. These are copy lenses after all.'...Thanks Ken

In regards to the purchase...Ebay does have quite a few of these sell. As inteerst grows in ULF and alternative processes (as it seems to be at the moment) these lenses get snapped up because they are so cheap. Mine cost a mere $250 from a seller in a local photography magazine here in Australia. Shipping cost me $25 so for $275 I've got a lens to shoot some seriously large plates. f11 isn't super-fast but still has a very limited DOF for plates/paper negs 30" square.

The cubestory link was terrific...thanks for sharing that one :)

[LF_rookie_to_be]

The cubestory link was terrific...thanks for sharing that one :)

You're welcome. There is also Roland Wirtz, the German photographer who went even further and uses a 1800mm lens for 50x90" Ilfochrome sheets. Or should that be "used"?