Suggestions for 100% cotton rag paper for alternative processes (Van Dyke, etc.)

[Corran]

I've been searching/Googling but I can't seam to find some simple suggestions for paper to use making some Van Dykes. Paper is a common word so I'm just not getting specific enough results.

I'm looking for a smooth paper, not textured, in sizes for 8x10 and 11x14 prints (or just sheets that I can cut). I don't need anything ultra-fancy right now so some budget but good paper suggestions are appreciated.

This is unknown territory for me so excuse the elementary question.

[jp]

Stonehenge.

Such as from Bostick & Sullivan.

[Erik Larsen]

Cranes cover from the Formulary and Lanaquarelle both have smooth surfaces and should work for you. Stonehenge as already mentioned is fairly inexpensive as well as Rives BFK. Platine is nice but not exactly cheap. If you can deal with a little texture, you open yourself up to a wide range of choices. Visit any art supply store and look at the variety.
Regards
Erik

[ROL]

Legion (http://legionpaper.com/Our-Collection.htm)?

[Jim Noel]

Cranes cover from the Formulary and Lanaquarelle both have smooth surfaces and should work for you. Stonehenge as already mentioned is fairly inexpensive as well as Rives BFK. Platine is nice but not exactly cheap. If you can deal with a little texture, you open yourself up to a wide range of choices. Visit any art supply store and look at the variety.
Regards
Erik

Be careful of the information you get at an art store. I have found very few in the past several years who know anything about their paper. Most papers today are buffered and you don't want to use those. Read the label on the original package carefully before you buy anything. Until you gain more knowledge, you should order from reliable dealers who know the papers will work, like Bostick & Sullivan.

[Erik Larsen]

An ox acid bath will allow the use of many buffered papers, no need to limit yourself IMO.
Regards
Erik

[David Brunell]

Check these papers as they are all designed for hand coating. I am new to the Van Dyke process myself and just ordered somr arches platine. It has a very smooth texture designed for Pt/Pd and is supposed to work equally well with Van Dyke Brown and Kallitype as well. I don't know if it is 100% cotton rag but it seemed like the best choice for a quality print. A bit on the expensive side but paper choice plays a pretty important role in the finished product right?

http://www.bostick-sullivan.com/cart/home.php?cat=18

[David Brunell]

Also check here:

http://www.alternativephotography.com/wp/paper/big-paper-survey-results

[J. Fada]

Lana Aquarelle Hot Press is a great paper. It is nice and smooth. Great paper to start with and it is easy to find in almost any art store.

[Corran]

Great, thanks guys, this really helps. I didn't know where to start in regard to brands and websites. Lots of choices now!

I would prefer to buy at a local art store but I'm afraid all that is offered here is Hobby Lobby and Michaels. I'll check there, but I assume they don't carry this kinda thing?

[D. Bryant]

Great, thanks guys, this really helps. I didn't know where to start in regard to brands and websites. Lots of choices now!

I would prefer to buy at a local art store but I'm afraid all that is offered here is Hobby Lobby and Michaels. I'll check there, but I assume they don't carry this kinda thing?

Cot 320, excellent for all iron based processes.. Lanaquarel treated wit oxalic acid is also excellent for VDB, Agyrotype, and Kallitype as well as palladium. Arches Platine. There are many others. You should shop around to get the besr prices. You also need a step tablet and a reliable UV light source.

[Erik Larsen]

Great, thanks guys, this really helps. I didn't know where to start in regard to brands and websites. Lots of choices now!

I would prefer to buy at a local art store but I'm afraid all that is offered here is Hobby Lobby and Michaels. I'll check there, but I assume they don't carry this kinda thing?

Our local hobby lobby usual has Fabriano Aristico and Canson Montval papers that work good but they have texture to them and need to be treated with oxallic acid. They are relatively inexpensive to experiment with.
Regards
Erik

[Wayne Lambert]

Weston's Diploma Parchment Plat-Pal is an inexpensive paper and needs no treatment for pt/pd. It has a very smooth surface and a very attractive warm color---if you like warm-tone papers. Very nicely complements palladium. It is a little light so probably isn't suitable for very large prints. I have no problem with
11 x 14's. $78.32 for 50 11 x 14 sheets. www.butlerdearden.com
Wayne

[buggz]

As a newbie, I have to ask, would these papers work for inkjet printing also?

[cdholden]

Be careful of the information you get at an art store. I have found very few in the past several years who know anything about their paper. Most papers today are buffered and you don't want to use those. Read the label on the original package carefully before you buy anything. Until you gain more knowledge, you should order from reliable dealers who know the papers will work, like Bostick & Sullivan.

Will the packaging specifically say buffered or unbuffered? We have a supply store here (Jerry's Artarama) that has a very nice selection of papers. I've picked up some of these for drawing and painting, but if they can be used with alternative printing processes, that's quite a bonus.

[bob carnie]

Yes , but finding a profile would be difficult, you basically would have to test adjust, test adjust until you are happy, we use arches and fabriano for this purpose.

[buggz]

Yes to me?
I generate pretty good profiles w/ my ColorMunki with the many different papers that I have used.


Yes , but finding a profile would be difficult, you basically would have to test adjust, test adjust until you are happy, we use arches and fabriano for this purpose.


As a newbie, I have to ask, would these papers work for inkjet printing also?

[bob carnie]

uncoated paper sucks up the ink to a much greater extent than inkjet coated papers.
Sometimes it really is hit and miss


Yes to me?
I generate pretty good profiles w/ my ColorMunki with the many different papers that I have used.

[buggz]

That makes sense, I already have enough expen$ive inkjet platine rag type papers anywho.
Thanks!


uncoated paper sucks up the ink to a much greater extent than inkjet coated papers.
Sometimes it really is hit and miss

[adamc]

Lana Aquarelle Hot Press is a great paper. It is nice and smooth. Great paper to start with and it is easy to find in almost any art store.

+1 on the Lana Aquarelle HP for VanDyke brown prints.
I give it a precoat of oxalic acid and get very consistant results with it.

[D. Bryant]

Paper with a good surface size like Cot 320 or Platine will probably work better than others but the dot gain will be high.

[sanking]

Paper with a good surface size like Cot 320 or Platine will probably work better than others but the dot gain will be high.

How does dot gain apply to printing with VDB on surfaces like COT 320 and Platine? I only understood dot gain with reference to half tone negatives.

BTW, for VDB I have gotten very good results with Arches Platine and Stonhenge with no oxalic acid bath, and equally good results with Lanaquarelle and Fabriano Artistico with acid bath. I did not get good results (low Dmax) with COT 320, though the same paper worked great with palladium.

Sandy

[SMBooth]

+1 on the Lana Aquarelle HP for VanDyke brown prints.
I give it a precoat of oxalic acid and get very consistant results with it.

That's twice oxalic acid has been mentioned, could please expand on the use of it.
Thanks

[Erik Larsen]

That's twice oxalic acid has been mentioned, could please expand on the use of it.
Thanks

Hi, it's used to neutralize the buffering agents in some papers to make them suitable for the iron process printing. A 5% solution will usually suffice.
Regards
Erik

[David Brunell]

That's twice oxalic acid has been mentioned, could please expand on the use of it.
Thanks

As I understand it, and someone please correct me if I am wrong (I am learning this process too) Some papers are highly buffered so when the acidity of the process interacts with the paper a poor effect may occur; acidifying these papers produces a more desirable outcome (better print) The degree of buffering also varies from paper to paper.

[D. Bryant]

As I understand it, and someone please correct me if I am wrong (I am learning this process too) Some papers are highly buffered so when the acidity of the process interacts with the paper a poor effect may occur; acidifying these papers produces a more desirable outcome (better print) The degree of buffering also varies from paper to paper.

Buffered papers are not good for iron based processes though some can be made useable with acidification. Cataloged descriptions of papers may or may not note buffering.

[D. Bryant]

How does dot gain apply to printing with VDB on surfaces like COT 320 and Platine? I only understood dot gain with reference to half tone negatives.

BTW, for VDB I have gotten very good results with Arches Platine and Stonhenge with no oxalic acid bath, and equally good results with Lanaquarelle and Fabriano Artistico with acid bath. I did not get good results (low Dmax) with COT 320, though the same paper worked great with palladium.

Sandy

I thought the poster was asking about printing with an inkjet printer onto untreated cotton fiber papers.

[bob carnie]

Don
someone other than the OP asked if uncoated paper was good for inkjet printing so it went off on a bit of a tagent.
Dot gain is most prevelent on ink press runs, and I guess to some degree one could consider the bleeding of ink on inkjet or the absorbtion as some sort of dot gain.


I thought the poster was asking about printing with an inkjet printer onto untreated cotton fiber papers.

[Jim Noel]

I have bought good papers from Jerry's in the past. The label usually indicates buffering. Jerry's web site lists the papers and information about them very accurately. You might try looking there before going to the store.

[sanking]

To clarify, the problem with buffered papers when used with the iron processes is that maximum reflective Dmax is usually very low. For example, when I use Lanaquarelle out of the box with no acid pre-treatment the maximum Dmax is around 1.35 with gold toned vandyke. When pre-soaked with oxalic acid 1.5% for a couple of minutes the maximum Dmax jumps to 1.55 or more. Another problem with buffered papers is that the iron stain may not clear. It is important to use a paper that clears well as any residual iron left in the paper may cause the image to fade in the long term.

Some papers require a stronger oxalic acid pre-soak, and/or longer soak time. It depends on the weight of the paper, and the thickness and type of the existing sizing. It is important to test new stock as new batches of paper may not perform like older batches.

Sandy