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William McEwen
2-Apr-2012, 09:20
Hi, Folks:

Do you use distilled water for your darkroom chemicals and your working solutions?

I do. I sorta figured everyone did this.

Then I was chatting with a photographer friend this weekend, and he told me he uses unfiltered Dallas tap water for everything.

I suggested at a minimum he should use distilled water when he gives his negs the Photo-Flo treatment, but he said no.

His position is since negs and prints are washed in tap water, what difference does it make?

My position is that I want each solution to be as pure as possible, and frankly, I wouldn't mind washing in distilled water.

So let's hear what you have to say.

I'm guessing my friend isn't alone in his tap water use.

William

Renato Tonelli
2-Apr-2012, 09:31
I don't use it for every solution.

I use it for film developer, Photo-Flo and toners

cyrus
2-Apr-2012, 09:44
I used distilled water only for the final rinse before leaving the negs to dry, to avoid water spots.
There really is no need to use distilled water in mixing solutions. Maybe if the pH of the tap water was way off or something...
{EDIT} but I only use "normal" chems for b&w. I don't know about color chems.

vinny
2-Apr-2012, 09:49
for stock solutions of developers, yes. for fixers, no.
for everything e-6 and c-41, yes.

Sal Santamaura
2-Apr-2012, 09:52
Film pre-rinse, developer mixing, film water rinse (no stop used), fixer mixing and film final Photo-Flo rinse: distilled. Everything else, including print water rinse (no stop used) and washing of both film and prints: tap.

Note that using distilled for washing might, depending on the makeup of your tap water, be less effective than tap. Here our tap water is somewhat alkaline year round. It is very good at removing residual thiosulfates as well as ridding negatives of their pink sensitizing dye, a small benefit that offsets drawbacks related to its hardness. I have to drain film/print washers after use and rinse their interior passages with distilled water to avoid a buildup of calcium carbonate.

Mark Barendt
2-Apr-2012, 09:57
Everything except water only rinses.

photobymike
2-Apr-2012, 10:04
I use distilled water all the time. I even check the water for disolved solids with a meter. My problem is that it is hard to find just distilled water. They ad some minerals to make it taste good. Real distilled water taste terrible, so they add minerals because the major use for the water is baby food. Distilled water has no dissolved solids, that makes it easy to mix other chemicals. Water can only take so much chemicals disolved in it. Ever have developer that has precipitate that does not seem to dissolved? The sludge at the bottom....

Gem Singer
2-Apr-2012, 10:18
Hi William,

In the past, all distilled water from my local super market was steam distilled. Most brands were labeled as safe to be used in steam irons.

Examining the labels of the so-called distilled waters available in super markets today, they are actually highly filtered tap water. Still safe for steam irons, however.

(Merg Ross clued me on that fact).

The water dispenser in the door of my refrigerator dispenses water that has been filtered through a 5 micron filter made by PUR (which I replace every six months).

It does a fine job of removing the sanitizing chemicals from tap water. Makes great drinking water and ice cubes.

I use that refrigerator water for mixing photo chemicals. A separate 5 micron filter, made by General Electric, filters the tap water that runs through my film washer, as well as

the final rinse for film, in a tray with a few drops of wetting agent added,

sully75
2-Apr-2012, 10:22
Gem, I wonder if a Britta filter would do the same thing?

Gem Singer
2-Apr-2012, 10:25
Paul,

Any brand of a water filter, of 5 microns, or less, will do the job.

Needs to be capable of removing the sanitizing chemicals (mostly chlorine).

Kimberly Anderson
2-Apr-2012, 10:36
No, except for photo-flo...when the distilled water is handy.

Scott Walker
2-Apr-2012, 10:42
No
I use filtered water

jp
2-Apr-2012, 11:01
I used distilled water only for mixing stock film processing chemicals. (xtol, fixer, etc..). Paper developing products, one-shot film developer, rinsing: tap water. Final film rinse: rubbing alcohol.

Tap water quality varies hugely. Public water systems vary. Wells vary. If you can benefit from filtering, it's worth doing.

Vaughn
2-Apr-2012, 11:05
Only for my stock solutions of Ammonium dichromate. Our tap water is of good quality.

E. von Hoegh
2-Apr-2012, 11:11
Yes, for everything except the wash.

Sal Santamaura
2-Apr-2012, 11:22
...Examining the labels of the so-called distilled waters available in super markets today, they are actually highly filtered tap water...In my area, this only applies to some brands of water. The key label phrase which gives away that cheaper production method is "for distilled water uses."

All major grocers here carry the Arrowhead brand, which is still marked "Prepared by Steam Distillation." That's what I use. It can't be found at Walmart. :)

Andrew O'Neill
2-Apr-2012, 11:27
I only use distilled water when mixing stock developers and final rinse of negatives (with washing aide).

WayneStevenson
2-Apr-2012, 11:31
I've used tap water for all of my photo-flo rinses up until last year when I started getting mineral deposit drying marks on my negatives. Our municipal water supply started hardening noticeably. Not sure the cause, But I use distilled water for my photo-flo solutions now.

Drew Wiley
2-Apr-2012, 11:31
We have exceptionally good tap water here which is basically snowmelt, so that is what I
use, except for the following: final rinse, critical work like color separation negs and matching masks, and during major storms when the water district tends to encounter more
than usual sediment and treats the water more heavily.

IanG
2-Apr-2012, 11:37
I've never used distilled water for any chemistry, however I do use deionised water for developers, and when I made emulsions commercially we used deionised water as well.

Ian

Brian Ellis
2-Apr-2012, 11:40
When I had a darkroom I used it for film developer and final rinse of prints. I thought it was important with film developer to be consistent between testing and usage and local water standards used to change a lot. With final rinse of prints it helped avoid spotting. I didn't see any reason to use it for stop, fix, etc.

Drew Wiley
2-Apr-2012, 11:50
Filtered or "deionized" via osmosis and steam distilled are not the same thing. Where critical pH is concerned, confusing the two could get you into trouble. More an issue in
certain alternative processes than ordinary silver work.

jcoldslabs
2-Apr-2012, 13:09
I use tap water for everything except the final Photo-Flo dip. For that I use filtered tap water.

Jonathan

John Kasaian
2-Apr-2012, 13:22
We just got a whole house filter, so I'll have to see how the next batch of chemicals I mix work out.

Jay DeFehr
2-Apr-2012, 13:50
I use distilled water for developer stock solutions (not the carbonate solutions, just the ones with developing agents), for dichromate stock solutions, toners, or anything I worry about. In Idaho I used it for final rinse, too, but Seattle's water is not so hard, and I've had no problems with tap water here.

Bill Burk
2-Apr-2012, 13:56
We have exceptionally good tap water here which is basically snowmelt.

I miss living in the mountains, there's good water there. Drove by a spring on the way home each day. There in the summer it would have more mineral in the spring it ran clear and crisp.

The soda spring in front of my cabin was good for turning scotch black... I wonder now if it would make a good developer with coffee?

I use reverse osmosis filter for stock mixing and photo-flo final rinse of my negatives.

For the +1 and +2 of working solutions, I'll use tap water.

Doremus Scudder
2-Apr-2012, 14:10
Tap water for everything except developer stock solutions and the final rinse with PhotoFlo.

I do compensate for the hardness of my water here in Vienna with a slight decrease in developing time compared with the softer water I use in Oregon. PMK seems sensitive to slight changes in pH.

When I lived in San Antonio (the only major city with a municipal water supply from shallow wells, and pure limestone from about eight inches down), the water was very hard. I used both the hard tap water and the softened water in the complex I was living at then, but quickly found that I got calcium or salt deposits on the negs if I didn't use a distilled water rinse. I've been doing that ever since, even if I may not need it in some locations. I don't seem to have any problem finding steam distilled. That really hard water was great for showers though :o

Best,

Doremus

www.DoremusScudder.com

Mike Reyburn
2-Apr-2012, 14:46
Same as many others: Distilled water for stock developer solutions and final PhotoFlo treatment. Expensive tap water for everything else.

Tony Evans
2-Apr-2012, 16:35
No. Tap water & one-shot chemistry only.

Leigh
2-Apr-2012, 19:16
Nope. I use highly-filtered (5μ) tap water. Ours has a relatively neutral pH.
Never had a problem. I've had this particular darkroom for 26 years.

- Leigh

Fred L
2-Apr-2012, 19:34
Filtered tap for all steps

Ian David
2-Apr-2012, 20:35
I used to use tap water for everything, and then I started having problems with my XTOL. I was getting what looked like lots of tiny solid particles forming in/on the emulsion. Turned out our hot water cylinder had died and I suspect our tap water had a higher than desirable iron content as a result. Before we got around to replacing the system, the hot water developed a distinctly brown hue... Anyway, I started using steam-distilled water for mixing developer, stop and fix. We now have a new hot water cylinder, but I am still using distilled for mixing all solutions, and for the final rinse.

Ian

Brook Martin
3-Apr-2012, 11:16
I have found anything but steam distilled h2o for ABC pyro will wreck negs. This would include presoak, developer stock and water to make for developer. I have had pretty bad motteling even with lab grade DI h2o.

sdynes
3-Apr-2012, 19:22
I use filtered tap water for everything except for Photo-flo (Ecco, actually), where I use distilled.

Winger
3-Apr-2012, 19:37
When I had decent tap water (not too hard, not too soft), I used it for everything and didn't have any problems. Now I have a well and the water is just shy of being as hard as a rock. So I use water labeled as distilled from Walmart. Even if it isn't really distilled, it's way better than water that you can see things floating in and that leaves rings if it dries on the counter.

Old-N-Feeble
3-Apr-2012, 19:49
Maybe it's my complete lack of self-confidence but, when I processed my own film a million years ago, I always developed and final-rinsed with distilled water. The steps between didn't matter much between.

Jody_S
4-Apr-2012, 06:05
Filtered, using one of those water pitcher thingys. Mostly for the chlorine.

nolindan
4-Apr-2012, 09:45
Distilled water for
Microdol-X stock & diluent
Technidol diluent
Rodinal diluent
PhotoFlo diluent

Cleveland tap water can really interfere with dilute developers.

Filtering won't turn water into distilled. To see how much crud is in the tap water or your Brita water just let a glass full evaporate and look at what is left behind.

tgtaylor
4-Apr-2012, 11:28
The municipal water where I live at in the Bay area comes from Hetch Hetchy reservoir in Yosemite National Park. It taste good right out of the tap and although I've never tested for it's PH I presume that it is neutral. I use it for all photographic applications except for mixing the sensitizers for alternative processes such as the Kallitype where I use distilled water.

Thomas

Doremus Scudder
5-Apr-2012, 09:35
Nicholas has a good point that many here seem to overlook; a filter will only remove solids in the water, not dissolved minerals. If you're lucky enough to have tap water that does the job, then go ahead and filter to get the crud out.

But, if you have really hard water, the filter is not going to do much good; better use distilled in this case, at least for mixing developer stock and for the final PhotoFlo rinse, and for mixing developers if there is a chance that the tap water will affect developer activity (like I mentioned, I tested my water in Vienna and adjusted development times).

Best,

Doremus

Gem Singer
5-Apr-2012, 10:06
Most commercial developer formulations, both liquid and powder, contain a sequestering agent.

It adjusts the pH to the proper level whether using hard water (alkaline), or soft water (acidic) to make the working solution.

Eric Rose
5-Apr-2012, 10:47
I have never used distilled water. Although in the past 4 years I have begun using a filter.

RHITMrB
5-Apr-2012, 10:59
Most commercial developer formulations, both liquid and powder, contain a sequestering agent.

It adjusts the pH to the proper level whether using hard water (alkaline), or soft water (acidic) to make the working solution.

This is what I'd read. Because of this I use distilled water only for the final wash (with Photo-Flo).

jnantz
5-Apr-2012, 18:15
i don't usually use distilled water for anything
but the last time i mixed fixer for gel tin types i had it on hand, so i used it ..
i am not sure if it made a difference, but now i misplaced a big bag of
kodak fixer .. i don't think these 2 things are related ..

polymerase
5-Apr-2012, 20:57
For all C41, B&W, and E6, I use distilled water for every step of development, including the washes. I do not use a flow agent. Then when I'm set to let them dry, I hang my negatives (roll or sheet) on a diagonal angle, and pour distilled water down both sides.
To this day, I've never had a water spot/developing artifact. *knocks on wood*

I figure at a buck a gallon, it's hard to go wrong. For ~$200-1000 you can pick up a decent distiller from Fisher or other lab company, but I like having a ready-to-go solution I can buy at any grocery store. :)

Who knows though? Maybe I'd get similar results with tap, but I'd rather not risk ruining an image. /mytwocents

David Brunell
6-Apr-2012, 07:27
Stock developers, pre-soak and photo-flo for me.

false_Aesthetic
6-Apr-2012, 07:50
San Pelligrino here.

Bubbles help with agitation.

cyrus
9-Apr-2012, 17:06
Lol - was it kissed by angels first?

Ari
9-Apr-2012, 18:30
Nope, just filtered tap water for everything, and no dust problems to speak of.

J. Fada
9-Apr-2012, 23:29
I usually use distilled for mixing developers and filtered tap water for the rest, even the final rinse. One thing to note for the PUR filters I use is that they have two types, one is a two stage and another is a three stage. The three stage adds minerals for "taste" so I avoid it. Stick with the cheaper two stage ones.

Skip Roessel
10-Apr-2012, 07:53
My water is pretty soft (nyc tap water) so I use it for everything except final rinse of negatives, where I go for distilled to minimize spots. Deionized water would be the same thing. Water through a Britta filter would have just as much calcium and magnesium as the water from the tap, just not as much chlorine or small particles.

When out of distilled water I have run rinse water through a coffee machine with several paper filters (letting it cool, natch) bout I doubt those paper filters go down to 5 microns. Negs okay, tho.

Skip Roessel

BradS
10-Apr-2012, 13:14
I do not use any distilled water. The stuff you can buy in the supermarket isn't really distilled anymore.

Some years ago, I switched to boiled and filtered tap water.

evan clarke
10-Apr-2012, 15:46
I have highly filtered water (four filter shstem) and most important it is dead neutral, pH 7...

Lungeh
10-Apr-2012, 21:32
Tap water on three continents... including rinse and surfactant stages. This is using B&W (lith and half tone), E-4 and -6, C41 and ranging from San Antonio also, Houston, New Mexico, wells in various countries. In Liberia in the dry season we had brackish tap water from backflow up the estuary (Mount Coffee reservoir, if you're really interested.) Never had problems with spots except when drying in dust season or when I was out of Photo-flo or when I substituted dilute laundry detergent. Routine chems are formulated rather robustly.

Peter Gomena
10-Apr-2012, 21:49
I use distilled or deionized water for film developer and wetting agent only. The tap water here (Portland, Oregon, USA) is fairly soft. I've never had trouble with spots or chemicals. I use it for developers because Pyrocat-HD and PMK are so dilute that I don't want to risk inconsistent results.

Peter Gomena

Alan Gales
10-Apr-2012, 22:34
I live in St. Louis and we drink from the mighty, muddy Mississippi river. Actually, they say we have some of the best drinking water in the whole country. Go figure!

Anyway, a long, long time ago.... in a galaxy far, far, just kidding! It was a long time ago, about 25 years ago that I used to do Cibachrome processing and I always used tap water with no problems at all.

robby parkman
11-Apr-2012, 18:23
Distilled water for final wash before drying. Tap water for everything else. Got too many water spots when I used tap water before drying

neel111
22-Apr-2012, 21:32
Distilled water is used at industries which require exceptionally high cleanliness of water. Vehicles also use distilled water to top off lead acid batteries as presence of other ions discovered in tap water can cause a drastic reduction in the automobile’s battery lifespan. Minerals discovered in tap water can also be harsh to internal engine components; hence, distilled water is preferred to tap water for use in automotive cooling systems.
How to make distilled water (http://distilledwaters.info/howtomakedistilledwater/)

cosmicexplosion
22-Apr-2012, 22:29
you know if you live in new zeland in the south, they flush their toilets with water better than Evian, so a good place to move if your worried...photo ops are also good.

Roger Thoms
22-Apr-2012, 23:23
Yes, for mixing LPD, Pyrocat HD, TF-4, TF-5, KRST, and with photo flow for a final rinse went processing film.

Roger

chuck94022
23-Apr-2012, 00:58
As a current resident of Beijing, yes. I have no idea what is in the tap water.


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=39.891590,116.423053

Jim Cole
23-Apr-2012, 05:21
Since moving to Indiana from Flagstaff, which had great tap water, I use double Brita filtered water for the single shot developer and the final Photoflo rinse.

The tap water here is terrible. This is the first place I've ever lived where if water sits for more than about 12 hours, a clear slime starts to grow, even in my capped hiking water bottles. After 36 hours or so it's disgusting. I have no idea what it is. That's why we double filter our drinking water, too.

Terry Christian
23-Apr-2012, 05:36
Here in Memphis, Tennessee, our water is sourced not from the Mississippi River but from natural underground aquifers, so it's some of the best tap water you'll find anywhere -- indistinguishable from bottled in mosy cases. I use it for presoaks and rinsing, and run it through a pitcher-type PUR filter for mixing chems and for final rinse.

Dennis
23-Apr-2012, 07:36
Portland Oregon tap water for everything except various platinum palladium chemicals. We have a filter thing on the kitchen tap that filters more finely than brita.

chuck94022
23-Apr-2012, 09:46
Distilled for pre-soak and mixing chemicals as well as last two rinses. One big help was buying a water distilling machine. Electric and you plug it in and a few hours later have distilled water to use. Picked them up at yard sales for much less than new - tho both looked new with one clearly unused.

It works well and costs less than going to the store, quite a bit less.

If you put in corn mash do you get whisky? :-)


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.029180,116.510940

Jody_S
23-Apr-2012, 10:09
If you put in corn mash do you get whisky? :-)


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.029180,116.510940

Yes. I had to call 911 for someone who was doing this, he died of massive organ failure a week or so later. I heard him call for help as I walked past his apartment, he had fallen out of his armchair and broken a hip. The fact that he weighed +600lbs didn't help, but he did in fact drink himself to death using one of those distilling thingys.