My spetic tank is angry!!!

[eddy pula]

ALL POINTS BULLETIN... Apparently I've been party rocking my darkroom (Parents basement) too hard and now the septic system is backing up and poops be coming up. I'm washing my negatives for like 12 minutes, and I do it 3-4 times a day, my dad (a water engineer by the way) has banned me from developing, I got a back up sink right now but long term what can I do to cut down on my water consumption? I don't think its the silver in the fix, I dump it once or twice a month at the most. Any ideas?:mad:

[eddy pula]

Also I know septic+silver=bad news but I've been doing this for like 3 years no problem.

[Vaughn]

You do not need to use running water to wash negs and prints -- use standing water and exchange it with fresh. Take the used water outside and water the garden.

[eddy pula]

I heard that works for prints, never heard that about negs, good to know. Thanks for getting back to me Vaughn.

[eddy pula]

Also, sorry if this has been asked before a million times, but I just got back from a fight with the crapper, and i have no time to be an internet detective at the moment.

[Preston]

Your septic tank is full and needs to be pumped. You are also likely putting more water into it than can flow into the leech field, so the brown trout are going upstream to spawn.

Vaughn's suggestion is a good one. Not only will this reduce the load on your septic system, you'll be saving a lot of water.

--P

[cdholden]

If you can avoid dumping your used fixer down the drain, do so. I keep mine in two 5 gallon buckets and let them evaporate. I got a silvery recovery thing to extract the silver, but I haven't used it yet. As long as the water evaporates, it's just making room for more spent fixer. The silver is still in the buckets waiting for me to remove and cash in.

[John Jarosz]

Your septic tank is full and needs to be pumped. You are also likely putting more water into it than can flow into the leech field, so the brown trout are going upstream to spawn.

yes, it's the water VOLUME hat is causing the back-up. The water has to go somewhere. The leach field can't get rid of the water at the rate you are putting it in.

Back in the day Leica/Leitz published a recommendation that prints can be washed to archival standards by sequentially washing them in 3 separate baths of still water for 30 minutes in each bath. I don't know any other details, but the essence is that it shouldn't take zillions of gallons of water to wash prints.

john

[jnantz]

does your tank back up when you run the clothes or dish washer, or when someone takes a shower/bath?
... running water to wash film or prints is less than taking a shower for 10-15mins ...
it might be good to have the tank pumped out and see if / when it backs up again ...

good luck !
john

[Frank Petronio]

Just a note not to leave the prints in water for too long or they fall apart.

[Michael E]

Two points:

1. Dumping used fixer down the drain is sooo nineties. There must be a special waste facility in your area where you can drop off household sized quantities of chemicals, batteries, fluorescent tubes, etc..

2. Washing film is about cycles, about replacing contaminated with fresh water. With every exchange, the level of solved chemicals decreases. Film has no fibers, so it is fairly easy to get chemicals out. I'm not sure about the number of exchanges neccessary, I have a rough figure of 8 in the back of my head. You can reuse the water: Use bath no. 2 of the previous load as bath no. 1 for the next load, etc.. Just make sure that the last rinses are fresh water.

Since treating film is a sensitive issue, you might want to research this further before using my advice. I don't want to mess up your film...

Michael

[jp]

The cobbler's children have no shoes.

[Vaughn]

The cobbler's children have no shoes.

True -- and a mechanic's car always runs badly...LOL!

To save you from having to do a google search -- here is Ilford's reccomendatioin (from the FP4+ pdf):


When a non-hardening fixer has been used wash the films in running water for 5–10 minutes at a temperature within 5C (9F) of the process temperature.

or

For spiral tank use, when a non-hardening fixer has been used, the following method of washing is recommended. This method of washing is faster, uses less water yet still gives negatives suitable for long term storage.

After fixing, fill the spiral tank with water at the same temperature, +/– 5oC (9oF), as the processing solutions and invert it five times. Drain the water away and refill. Invert the tank ten times. Once more drain the water away and refill. Finally, invert the tank twenty times and drain the water away.

The other way is just to fill the tank and let it sit for 5 mins, dump and refill -- about 5 times.

[eddy pula]

OK, lots of good ideas guys, thanks a lot. I'm going to show this thread to my father (He manages the Quabbin Reservoir if you know what that is) and we'll figure something out. I went down to my friends house and developed in his kitchen sink while his cat swatted at me, the pictures are great! We also made a video about how to develop film when you are a refugee so you'll all have something to chuckle at in a week or two.

[eddy pula]

Michael E, good point, about a year ago I brought a home depot bucket full of nasty fix into my dentist (x-ray film and all) and the receptionists almost called the police on me. No they wouldn't take random possibly noxious fluids from a disheveled looking man who came in for a chipped tooth.

[Michael E]

No they wouldn't take random possibly noxious fluids from a disheveled looking man who came in for a chipped tooth.

Can't blame them. I wouldn't either.

[false_Aesthetic]

FWIW,

Eddy is a bomb diggidy photographer.

[Vaughn]

I was thinkin' his full name is Eddy Pula Malegga

[5063]

Septic tanks rely on bacteria to break down waste matter. Silver kills the bacteria. Maybe the breakdown of waste is slowed from lack of bacteria. Maybe that's why your system is backing up.

[photobymike]

I have been dumping fixer down the drain for years along with all the other chemicals in my septic tank. Yes it does kill the bacteria in your tank. The cure is not to pump but add RID-X treatment. I do this every month because i know it works.... been about 5 years with no problems

http://www.rid-x.com/how-do-septic-systems-work.shtml

[Marc B.]

eddy,
You have septic tank/drain field issues.
Silver, chlorine bleach, and other things we dump down the drain do kill/inhibit digestive bacteria, (good bacteria and enzymes) in the septic tank.
The conditions you describe indicate that your septic tank is too full of solids, and/or your drain field is possibly obstructed, or inadequately sized.
Ask your father when last the septic tank was pumped. Five years or more last...pumping will probably be the cure.

You can introduce good bacteria and enzymes, two ways. Commercially available products like the aforementioned 'Rid-X,' or [free] yogurt.
Go to your local grocer/supermarket; ask if they will give you outdated, plain yogurt, or at least sell it at no more then 5-10 cents each.
Flush about half dozen, single serving yogurts a week, or at least twice a month.

[Vaughn]

...Flush about half dozen, single serving yogurts a week, or at least twice a month.

Take the yogurt out of the containers first...:D

[Fotch]

Old house? Usually a very small tank. The problem is more than just photo use. JMHO

[rdenney]

The reason septic tanks need to be pumped out from time to time is that not everything can be liquified by the bacteria, even when the silver doesn't kill them. Insoluable solids, called sludge, settle to the bottom of the tank. Depending on how much the system is used, it might need to be pumped every two years, or it might not fill up in 20 years. This is not related to occasional darkroom use, which produces no sludge. I'm not sure one photographer hobbyist could dump enough fixer to render a septic system ineffective, but wash water can back up just like everything else.

Rick "a civil engineer who notes that water treatment and sewage treatment are different disciplines" Denney

[Alan Curtis]

Your septic problem is most likely not photographically related. I've been using a septic system for over 40 years with many thousands of mostly useless negatives and prints with no damage to my septic system. The problem is too much fiber or maybe not enough, human related.

[jnantz]

pay the few hundred dollars to get pumped out, and have them look at the outlet pipe and inlet pipe.
sometimes they get plugged, sometimes tree roots grow into the pipes, or sometimes there is enough solid stuff
compacted at the bottom of the tank it reduces the volume the tank &c can hold. i asked if it backs up when showers, or washers run
because grey water fills the tank from those sorts of things faster than you doing darkroom work ...

[Louie Powell]

Two totally separate issues here.

First, as Vaughn says - use still water to wash negatives and prints. Six changes of water is sufficient to wash a set of negatives (I assume that you are using a hypo clear step in your process), and that translates into only a few gallons.

Second, the septic system problem is unrelated to your practice of washing negatives 3-4 times a day. Seriously, as twelve minute wash with the tap wide open is approximately equivalent to one person taking a shower. Even if you insist on a running water wash (in spite of Vaughn's great advice), three or four showers per day should not create a problem for a septic system. Instead, it sound to me like the septic system has simply advanced in age to the point where it needs to be pumped (depending on the number of people in the home and the percollation characteristics of the soil, that happens every 8-12 years). Another scenario is that you have a crack in the pipe from the house to the septic tank, and tree roots have now grown into the pipe. That will cost a few hundred bucks and cause you to have to replant/reseed the lawn immediately over the septic tank.

A more serious problem is that your drainfield has become clogged. That's a more expensive fix, and probably will require that you get a permit from the local authorities and undergoi one or more inspections as the work is done. You will also need to regrade and replant your entire lawn.

It is also possible that your system has failed, and because of soil conditions or local ordinances, you won't be able to install a replacement. Hopefully, in that case there is a town sewer option. What that sounds bad, there is some good news in that the solution is permanent and doesn't involve a septic system.

[Robert Bowring]

Sorry to hear about your septic problems. I also had a failing septic system last year. I think the drain field was really plugged up. A new system would have cost about $15000-$20000. Ouch! I checked out http://www.aero-stream.com/. They make a system to fix failing septic systems. I figured I would give it a try because it cost much less than a new system. I could not believe how well it worked almost immediately. It worked for me. Have not had a problem since I installed it. Don't know if it will solve your problem but you might want to take a look at it. Good luck.

[William McEwen]

Eddy, I'm not willing to automatically assume your darkroom activities are at fault...