Copal #1 Polaroid shutter blades reassembly

[grumero]

Hi all.
I tried to fiddle with my Copal #1 Polaroid self cocking shutter because it stuck and the times are slow.
It is from the Polaroid MP-3 camera with a nice 127 Tominon lens.
As a newby I opened the wrong side up first and ... oops, the shutterblades fell out.
There are 5 shutter positions but 6 shutterblades (?) and also 3 smaller (kind of) washer blades (?).
Does anyone know what is the propper alignment of the elements for reassembly.
The shutter is fired with a cable release and stucks after a view shots and the lever does not recock.
After fiddling a bit it's working again for a view releases than it stucks again.
Does anyone have a repair manual or some illustrations of the inner parts?
I definitely would love to get that thing working again.
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks!

[E. von Hoegh]

Best bet? Send it to a pro, unless you have experience working with these.

[Bob Salomon]

Make sure you let him know that it is a Copal Press not a Copal.

[grumero]

Thanks for the reply.
Yes of course it's a copal press type.
I totally agree, that sending it to a pro would be the easiest way. But as a precision mechanic i am very tempted to give it a try first. But sure, i will need some input. How should i gain some experience if i'd pass that thing straightaway to a repair pro. When the guy fixed it i surely won't open it up again. Sometimes it's time to get started.

[BrianShaw]

Be prepared for sticker shock. There are signs in most watch and clock repair shops that read something like:

Repairs: $10
Repairs, if you watch: $10
Repairs, if you tried to fix it yourself: $100

I know for me, when someone asks me to work on a clock I smell it for WD-40 first and if so the price doubles (that stuff ruins cleaning solution and make the cleaning process more time-intensive). iWhen someone brought me a bag of parts I offer salvage value only and squirrel it away for an future opportunity when I have absolutely nothing better to do. I would never agree to attempt turning a bag of parts into a functioning unit.

[Bob Salomon]

"But as a precision mechanic"

For what? I am not sure, then again i am sure, that I would not want my certified auto mechanic to try to fix my camera (internally) or my watch.

[grumero]

I would not want my certified auto mechanic to try to fix my camera

Don't worry about your watch or your car. I'm definitely not interrested in putting my hands on. :)
If you're heading towards a general discussion about personal skills, ok...but sorry, that's not my cup of tee.
I'm only asking for some details about that shutter.
I am aware that there is a repair manual for that thing available and was confident that someone here could provide some usefull technical information for this shutter. Thought it's the right place here. No?

Cheers!

[Old-N-Feeble]

C'mon, folks. If the OP wants to work on his own shutter that's his business. If people want to advise against it then post that sentiment a helpful tone. There's no need to be negatively critical, accusatory or belittling.

Sorry, grumero, I don't have the data to help but I'm sure someone who does will eventually chime in.

[E. von Hoegh]

Best bet? Send it to a pro, unless you have experience working with these.

I'd give you a link to a service manual, if I knew where to find one.

I'd suggest you find some "junk" shutters to practice on, and be sure you have the correct tools and know how to use them.

Good luck.

[gth]

Hi all.
I tried to fiddle with my Copal #1 Polaroid self cocking shutter because it stuck and the times are slow.
It is from the Polaroid MP-3 camera with a nice 127 Tominon lens.
As a newby I opened the wrong side up first and ... oops, the shutterblades fell out.
There are 5 shutter positions but 6 shutterblades (?) and also 3 smaller (kind of) washer blades (?).
Does anyone know what is the propper alignment of the elements for reassembly.
The shutter is fired with a cable release and stucks after a view shots and the lever does not recock.
After fiddling a bit it's working again for a view releases than it stucks again.
Does anyone have a repair manual or some illustrations of the inner parts?
I definitely would love to get that thing working again.
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks!

I did exactly the same thing last year, on the same shutter. Took me a few tries but I got it going. Hmm, trying to recall now... wish I had taken some pictures.

As I recall, you have to put in the small shutter pieces first....maybe between each shutter blade? I think they go against the metal, then the shutter leafs on top. The small pieces are asymmetrical and I remember right has two holes which have to be oriented the right way. As I remember i put those in first, and they gave me the most problems. After that the actual shutter blades mounted pretty easily. I had the same problem with the 6th blade..... I only put in 5 in the end as I recall. Seems to work.

Anyway, that's a pretty lousy instruction, but these are simple mechanisms, if I could get it going I am sure you will. Ain't that many ways it can go together! Pls pm me if you find out where that 6 blade goes!!! I think it might be doubled up on one post, probably at the bottom or top.

I just brought it out to check it, and it still works like charm, seem to work over its speed range. I have a 105 mm lens in it. You need a locking release cable so you can lock it open on B to focus..

It's a neat dirt simple shutter. And, I still have that "spare" shutter blade!!

[grumero]

I did exactly the same thing last year, on the same shutter.

Thanks for chiming in.
A view days ago i stumbled over your post about your attempt to fix this. Your pragmatics in leaving out the 6th blade made me smile. :) Nice that it worked.
Here is an image of a similar press shutter and you can see the small ones sticking out a bit on the edge.
71121
As for logics it would make sense, that the 6th blade uses the same mount as the first on. But that is just a quess. If that would be correct, two of the small spacer blades mount on top of blade 4 and 5. Can' figure out if there is one on top of blade 3. It looks like, but is hard to see. It would make sense, because the topping 6th blade would make the last spacer needless. I'm confident that we get your "spare" blade back where it belongs.

[gth]

Thanks for chiming in.
A view days ago i stumbled over your post about your attempt to fix this. Your pragmatics in leaving out the 6th blade made me smile. :) Nice that it worked.
Here is an image of a similar press shutter and you can see the small ones sticking out a bit on the edge.
71121
As for logics it would make sense, that the 6th blade uses the same mount as the first on. But that is just a quess. If that would be correct, two of the small spacer blades mount on top of blade 4 and 5. Can' figure out if there is one on top of blade 3. It looks like, but is hard to see. It would make sense, because the topping 6th blade would make the last spacer needless. I'm confident that we get your "spare" blade back where it belongs.

Let me know if you get the 6th blade in place!

/gth

[grumero]

Let me know if you get the 6th blade in place!/gth

@gth
Finally I got the repair manual and can tell how the shutterblades have to be assembled. Including your 6th 'spare' :)
It's just the way I was assuming.
Blade 6 goes on top where blade 1 is mounted.
The three subsidiary blades (the small ones) go on top of the blades 3, 4 and 5.

Cheers,
grumero

[cyberjunkie]

Some shutter work well without the "cover" blade, others don't like it very much. That's what i have been told.

Repairing a shutter isn't rocket science, and it's perfectly possible to learn it on your own, with lots of time and patience.
The friend who repairs my shutters (IF and WHEN he likes to do it, unfortunately), is 100% self-taught.
Whoever is willing to give it a try, better start with some junk stuff of no economic value, so you can practice without any fear.
Two things are needed, which i totally miss: patience and steady hands.
When i tried doing something that was beyond my capabilities, i ended up getting really furious!
I remember frantically searching for an air-like spring in the fireplace! :)

I think i'll try my luck with an ultrasound cleaner, using lighter fuel as cleaning liquid.
You're not supposed to use inflammable materials, but i have found that somebody did it, without any problem.
A way to clean a "gummed" shutter, without removing too many screws, would be very welcome.
Then, if needed, you can apply a micro-drop of light gun oil with a toothpick... and only where is needed.

have fun

CJ