Loading film – best way to orient the holder?

[Heroique]

Here’s a poll to determine our preferred way to orient the film holder when loading film.

The photos below illustrate, in order, the poll’s first four choices:


Option 1: Vertical w/ flaps bottom
Option 2: Horizontal w/ flaps left
Option 3: Vertical w/ flaps top
Option 4: Horizontal w/ flaps right

If you have time to add comments, we want to know why your preference is best for you.

And please, tell us more about your film-loading habits: :D


• What preparations do you make before the lights go off?
• When you load film, do you sit or stand, and where do you put your holders/film?
• How far out do you pull the dark slide – and why?
• How do you confirm the film is properly loaded?
• What are your most common glitches?
• Any secrets about reducing or managing dust?
• What’s your final step before the lights go back on?

Your remarks will likely improve the way the rest of us load film – beginners and veterans alike.

[D. Bryant]

You must be really bored today.;)

[Kimberly Anderson]

Crap...what does that say about me! I even took the time to figure out the question, look at the images and vote! Ha!

[Heroique]

Well, let’s just say it’s rainy here in Seattle today, and I want to learn something about film loading that I didn’t already know...

BTW, I’m a “vertical-flaps-top” man. (Say, that sounds like a good country song! :cool:)

[MIke Sherck]

"It depends" because people have preferred hands. You want the more dexterous hand doing the hard part: holding the film and loading it into the holder under the guides and sans fingerprints. The other hand can hold the film holder up. Since I'm right-handed, I hold the film holder in my left hand, flap pointing to the right where I'm holding a sheet of film. My left index finger holds the flap open and the dark slide is inserted about half-way into the holder.

Then there are those days where I'm loading 8x10 and for some stupid reason (arthritis) my left hand won't get a good grip on the film holder. Then I lay it on the table and my left hand just holds the flap open and keeps the whole thing from sliding off into the wastebasket, which now that I think of it, would be a great timesaver.

Once the film is in and the dark slide pushed home, I run a finger over the side edge of the flap: if it's sticking up higher than the face of the film holder, I know that the film or the dark slide aren't inserted properly and I can try again.

Mike

[David Swinnard]

---> Snip


• What preparations do you make before the lights go off?
• When you load film, do you sit or stand, and where do you put your holders/film?
• How far out do you pull the dark slide – and why?
• How do you confirm the film is properly loaded?
• What are your most common glitches?
• Any secrets about reducing or managing dust?
• What’s your final step before the lights go back on?

Your remarks will likely improve the way the rest of us load film – beginners and veterans alike.

OK, I'll bite...

You forgot the bullet point about closing our eyes (that would fall soon after turning off the lights. Usual final step before turning on lights is to open eyes again...

But seriously, over the course of a bunch of years I needed to teach students how to load film, reliably, into such holders. Being left handed I load with the film in my left hand and the holder, horizontal with flaps facing the left, held down with my right. My nonambidexterity made it somewhat challenging as I showed them how to do it "right handed". Made me really think about the steps.

Over the years the common mistakes I've seen have been, film emulsion down, film with one edge in the slide's track (makes for hard to install slides but hey, student's find a way to do it. Then they wonder why there's a piece of film inside the camera...), and film not inserted "all the way" so the flap is hard to close and often leaks light.

Once years ago I did meet a student who carefully loaded a stack of holders with the interleaving paper that used to be in the Ilford 4x5 boxes leaving all the film tossed on the counter. Big surprise when the lights came back on. I don't know if he ever did it again. I like to think he didn't

These days I'm using Grafmatics but still insert film from left to right...and no longer have to show others how to do it.

[Heroique]

My left index finger holds the flap open...

Now that’s an oft-forgotten hazard.

I wonder how many times film sheets have been scratched by a sneaky, wayward flap – just like a cat’s paw.

I’ve certainly been a victim of this, during both the loading and unloading process.

[Leigh]

And please, tell us more about your film-loading habits: :D

• What preparations do you make before the lights go off?
• When you load film, do you sit or stand, and where do you put your holders/film?
• How far out do you pull the dark slide – and why?
• How do you confirm the film is properly loaded?
• What are your most common glitches?
• Any secrets about reducing or managing dust?
• What’s your final step before the lights go back on?
Answering slightly out of order...

I'm right-handed, so I put a cotton glove on my left hand and a nitrile glove on my right.
The film slides under the cotton when loading, and the nitrile provides tack for separating single sheets of film.

I load on the counter in the darkroom, standing, just to the left of my enlarger drop table. I put the film boxes
where I can reach them easily, then stack the empty holders in piles of 6 or 12, all to my left.

Lights off.
Remove one film pack from the box, open it, and place it about halfway back on the counter with
the open end toward the void above the drop table, making it easy to pick up and put down.

Place an empty holder parallel to the counter front, darkslide out halfway, with the open flap overhanging the void.

Remove one sheet of film from the pouch and return the rest; close the pouch flap.
The thumb and middle finger of my left hand go at the open end of the slots in the holder, to locate them.
Index finger holdes the flap open. Slide the film under the gloved fingers into the slots.
Lift the free end of the film with a finger nail to make sure it's in both slots; easy with the nitrile glove.

Close the flap and push the darkslide home. Turn the holder over and repeat (darkslide halfway out).

Stack the loaded holders on the enlarger drop table toward the rear, so they won't fall on the floor.

When the session is done, return any non-empty film pouches to their boxes. I only load one type at a time.

Lights on.

Dust is not a problem in my darkroom as I have a highly-filtered positive air flow.

My only recurrent problem has been forgetting to return unused film to its box before turning the lights on. ;(
Did that with an almost full 20-sheet box of 8x10. Oh well... One learns from one's mistakes.

Don't know if this is the "best" way or not, but it's worked for me for many years. :D

- Leigh

[vinny]

how many polls has Heroique started?
option 1:too many
option 2: give him a break. at film prices being what they are, he's got nothing better to do.

[Leigh]

how many polls has Heroique started?
Now, now. Be kind.

This time we're up to seven options.

I didn't realize he could count that high. :D

- Leigh

[Heroique]

...I hold the holder over my head with the side I am loading facing down.

BTW, I should thank Emil’s unique remark (from the “Darkslide going behind the film” thread) for inspiring this film-loading thread & poll. Thanks, Emil! :D His special technique made me think there must be more stories out there to get us thinking about an old problem in new terms. Now, the poll is just a fun way to get you warmed-up to offer any useful remarks that you may not have shared with us before. Good for my rainy day in Seattle, but I hope everyone can benefit.

It remains, of course, for Emil to follow-up & tell us which is his preferred orientation over his head, but I already suspect he’s talented enough to select the “ambi-orientational” option…

[Vaughn]

Dust out holders
Wash hands well, do not touch face. Fingertips do not produce oils or nor have sweat glands -- no need for gloves.
Standing at a counter, place everything in front of me.
Turn off light -- check for glowing timers, safelights, etc.
Open up box of film, remove film from box and bag (keeping film between the cardboard) and place it crosswise in the box (all three halves nested) with notches outward, emulsion up.
Place holder vertical, flap up
Slide darkslide 1/4 to 1/3 open, lower flap.
Lift cardboard, remove a sheet of film, tap against counter to remove dust.
Insert film using fingers of both hands on the sides of the film - "walk" it down under the rails. Keep film at about 45 degree angle, pushing and bowing the film slightly to slide it under the rails
Make sure film is slide all the way down into the holder
Double check ends of rails to insure proper loading
Slide darkslide closed.
Turn holder over and repeat.
Double check that I actually loaded the other side...LOL!
Put loaded holder off to the side.
Repeat until all holders are loaded.
Close box of film
Turn on lights
Make sure that film holders are marked with the type of film that is inside them.
Photograph

[Vaughn]

how many polls has Heroique started?
option 1:too many
option 2: give him a break. at film prices being what they are, he's got nothing better to do.

How many posts does Vinny read when he should be photographing or making prints?
More than happy to get her a break.

[Leigh]

Place holder vertical, flap up
Slide darkslide 1/4 to 1/3 open, lower flap.
...
Insert film using fingers of both hands on the sides of the film - "walk" it down under the rails.
Hi Vaughn,

Question, if I may...

How do you position the holder vertically,
then pull the darkslide out (meaning it can't be in contact with the counter top),
then use both hands to insert the film? It would seem to require three hands???

- Leigh

[Vaughn]

In portrait position, flat on the counter, if that is more clear. (as per poll question -- otherwise "vertical with flap on bottom" - choice #1 -- would not be even possible)

added -- I guess it would be possible if held above the counter vertically with the flap on the bottom. Sort of like scratching one's left ear with one's right hand.

[Leigh]

Oh. OK. I thought vertical meant vertical, but it really means horizontal.

That makes sense. :D Thanks.

But vertical with flap on bottom makes no sense even horizontally,
unless you push the film with your belly button, or your belt buckle, or... :p

- Leigh

[Leigh]

Fingertips do not produce oils or nor have sweat glands -- no need for gloves.
But your palms do produce sweat and oil.

Handling the holders, film boxes, etc., can cause that to be transferred to the finger tips.

I've found that gloves facilitate the mechanics of the loading process by providing a smooth
gliding surface (cotton glove) and significant tack (nitrile gloves) when needed.

Just one way of doing things.

- Leigh

[Vaughn]

Leigh -- vertical and horizontal are pretty common uses for the the orientation of photographs (and used here for positioning the holders). "Portrait" and "Landscape" are relatively new terms.

My palms never touch the film or holders. Anything fingers touch during the process are also touched by the gloves...no difference there -- but perhaps the gloves would be even more likely to pick up oils, etc since they are more absorptive. I prefer the tactile response of skin over gloves -- agreed, just one way of doing things.

[Leigh]

Leigh -- vertical and horizontal are pretty common uses for the the orientation of photographs...
True statement.

And photographs usually hang on walls, where vertical is vertical. :D

- Leigh

[Vaughn]

True statement.

And photographs usually hang on walls, where vertical is vertical. :D

- Leigh

Far more photographs are "horizontal" in print boxes and print files than on vertical walls. :D (at least judging by the boxes of prints I have under my boys' beds!)
I don't know how to describe the orientation of images on a hard drive since they "look" like this:1001001010100010101010100010101010001...LOL!

[Leigh]

Images on hard drives are on arcs (segments of a circle) of varying diameters.

Images on CDs are on a continuous spiral.

Do I get a prize for the most off-topic post this week? :D

- Leigh

[Heroique]

Lift cardboard, remove a sheet of film, tap against counter to remove dust...

A nice practical idea – I think I’ll add a bit of “tapping” to my film-loading process, especially when I’m retrieving film from boxes that have been opened & closed during previous sessions. As we know, dust always sees its chance and knows when to “go for it.”


Double check that I actually loaded the other side ... LOL!

Another useful idea & LOL indeed. It brings to mind a similar situation. When I’ve been hitting the field and returning home on successive days – that is, when unloading sessions precede loading sessions – I like to double-check that a holder is actually empty before loading it again. My habit is usually to unload film in one session – rest – then in a later session, re-load the same holders. Just works best for me. Despite this two-session safeguard, I’ve still been known to leave an exposed sheet in a holder, and later, try to load a new sheet right on top of it. So double-checking has become second-nature to me.

[Vaughn]

I really hate pulling darkslides from "empty" holder to clean them out only to find a piece of (previously) exposed film inside that I had not yet got a round to develop. Lots of possible ways to keep track of such things, but that does not mean I actually use one of them. Fortunately, I usually develop the more exciting images first and these "left overs" are usually marginal images or perhaps duplicate...but not always.

[Doremus Scudder]

Important for me is dust control during the loading. My regime:

I try to keep the loading area clean, but don't sweep or vacuum it immediately before loading film, since this just launches a lot of dust into the air. I humidify the loading area (either my darkroom or a darkened bathroom) by running some hot water in order to settle dust before beginning.

All holders get vacuumed. I try to keep the vacuum cleaner outside the room. I do have a vacuum with a Hepa-filter to make sure as little dust is kicked up as possible. During the vacuuming, I slide the darkslide past the light trap a couple of times while vacuuming from inside the holder under the trap to get any dust that might be dislodged by inserting the darkslide. Holders are then stacked, with the darkslides in the orientation for "loaded/unexposed." I usually put a plastic bag on top to catch any settling dust.

Film holder stacks are on my left on the counter.

I roll up my sleeves, wash my hands well and don a cheapie hotel shower cap to keep any stray hairs from falling on the work area. Generally, I try to keep the work well in front of me so nothing gets on the film from me leaning over the film. I use bare hands, but handle the film carefully by the edges when loading.

Lights out. I sit or stand depending on the height of the counter.

Film box gets opened. I stack the boxes to the back right of the counter, nested. The film gets taken out of the foil pack, which then goes inside the nested boxes if I will need it to store film later. Otherwise, it goes on the floor. I leave the cardboard on the stack and find the code notches. I place the source stack face-down on the right; the upper cardboard gets removed and put in the film box. Having the film face-down prevents dust from landing on the emulsion side. I try to minimize the emulsion side's "exposure" to possible dust.

I take a holder and orient it so the flap is on the right (I'm right-handed and load from that side).

The darkslide gets pulled 60-70% out. If you open it too little, it's too easy to mistake the resistance from the darkslide for the film being properly loaded in the slots.

I load the film from the right. I take a sheet from the stack, turn it vertical and tap its edge lightly on the counter top to dislodge any dust and then load it into the holder. Kodak film is always really clean, but I've used other brands that gave me a little pile of particles from the tapping. Only now do I flip the film face-up and then slide it quickly into the holder.

Code notches are oriented so they end up at the bottom left of the holder. This also keeps the notches from impinging on the image area if the film slides down in the holder, which it does in some of my older holders.

To check the load, I gently lift the bottom of the film sheet with a fingernail starting at the far side till I can feel that it is, indeed, under the guides. I then slide my finger to the other side, lifting lightly to check the near side. In the process I feel the code notch to make sure it is in the right position.

Close darkslide, turn holder and repeat, then place the loaded holders in a stack at the back left of the counter.

After loading, film gets stowed if needed, and the lights turned on. Then each holder goes into a clean ziploc-style bag. I use only a few films, so I make myself a note of which holders have what film in them and store it together with the loaded, bagged holders in a cooler. My cooler holds 50 holders.

That's about it for loading.

I have all my holders numbered, and notches filed into the holder flaps to imprint the holder number on the film so I can keep track of which holder an image came from. This helps when tracing down light leaks.

Best,

Doremus

[Andrew O'Neill]

Funny, I've really never thought about it. I've always done horizontal, flap right. For fun, I'm going to try vertical, flap top.

[E. von Hoegh]

Images on hard drives are on arcs (segments of a circle) of varying diameters.

Images on CDs are on a continuous spiral.

Do I get a prize for the most off-topic post this week? :D

- Leigh

How many grooves on an LP record?

[Colin Graham]

Vertical flap up for squarish formats, horizontal flap left for pano formats. One thing I really like about wooden holders (or the ones I've used, anyway), there isn't any spring in the film gate/flap, they tend to stay open on their own.

[BrianShaw]

• What preparations do you make before the lights go off?

I use a changing bag, so I make sure the film box seals are sliced, film holder locks are unlocked, slides are pre-positioned to correct color... and all materials are in the "inner sanctum" of the film changing bag, not between the inner and outer sanctum. I also double check that the zippers are zipped.

• When you load film, do you sit or stand, and where do you put your holders/film?

I kneel. Partially because I find it easier to sit the bag on hte floor, and partly so I can more quickly offer an invocation to a higher being (Him) to avoid a loading screw-up. After it is all over, if all went well, invocation of thanks is offered.

• How far out do you pull the dark slide – and why?

About half-way. To make it easier to get the slide back in.

• How do you confirm the film is properly loaded?

Feel the film and the film retaining ridges. Sometimes grab the end of hte film with a fingernail and pull up to make sure.

• What are your most common glitches?

Mixing up the coolor of slides so that some are black side out and others are white side out.

• Any secrets about reducing or managing dust?

Nope.

• What’s your final step before the lights go back on?

Double checking that film holder slides are pushed in and locked, and that the remaining film is in the box.

[sel]

How many grooves on an LP record?

Hey, I know this one: 2. But there was a Monty Python record ("Matching Tie and Handkerchief" ?)
That had 3 grooves - one on side one and two on side two. You had to play around w/the needle to
Catch one or the other. Funny thing thing is the liner notes didn't mention it. Typical Monty Python.

And now, back to our regularly scheduled topic: I'm a horizontal, flap on the right kind of guy.

S.

[E. von Hoegh]

Hey, I know this one: 2. But there was a Monty Python record ("Matching Tie and Handkerchief" ?)
That had 3 grooves - one on side one and two on side two. You had to play around w/the needle to
Catch one or the other. Funny thing thing is the liner notes didn't mention it. Typical Monty Python.

And now, back to our regularly scheduled topic: I'm a horizontal, flap on the right kind of guy.

S.

Looks like you'll fit right in here. :)

[E. von Hoegh]

It remains, of course, for Emil to follow-up & tell us which is his preferred orientation over his head, but I already suspect he’s talented enough to select the “ambi-orientational” option…

Sorry, I'm ambidextrous with shotguns, rifles, and not much else. I can also write normally with my right hand while simultaneously writing backwards with my left hand, if that counts for anything.

[Zaitz]

So am I the only idiot that pulls the darkslides completely out? Probably would make things easier leaving it in a fair ways. Don't know why I didn't think of that since I started LF. Have been pulling them all out and leaving them on the side until the film is loaded. Otherwise vertical, holder in left hand flap held with left fingers, film in right hand.

[BrianShaw]

So am I the only idiot that pulls the darkslides completely out?

No, you are not the only one. I dop that when I pull too hard. :)

[Leigh]

I think everybody pulls the slides completely out to do a white/black reversal and clean the holder.

- Leigh

[Zaitz]

No I mean when loading them. I take them all out and stack them next to me.

[Leigh]

As long as you put them all back in the holders before you turn the lights on, that works. :D

- Leigh

[Zaitz]

As long as you put them all back in the holders before you turn the lights on, that works. :D

- Leigh

So far so good there! I triple check that sort of thing. Loading holders is about the only thing I don't like with large format. For some reason I load 8x10 easier as well. Some of my 4x5 holders must have bent guides on the side because it is finnicky to get the film in.

Another thing is that I am quickly changing my opinion on new film holders. I used to think I would never buy them but after a few problems with small light leaks and troublesome old holders I am beginning to think new may be the best route. I don't have any confidence in leaving a loaded holder out in any sort of light. They are packed away until I use them.

[Leigh]

I've only purchased 12 brand new holders, the rest were all excellent used modern holders.

I agree about leaving holders out in the light; I never do that.

- Leigh

[Chris Strobel]

For my 8x10 loading, I do it at night in the bathroom. First turn on the hot shower and let it steam up for about 5 min. Then let the steam evaporate some. Then slip on some powder free nitrol gloves which keep the finger prints off and make handling the film easier. Then put my stack of film holders on a small table next to tub. Then it's lights out and I sit on edge of tub. I take each film holder and hold it with my knees flaps up obviously, and load away.

[Heroique]

...I sit on edge of tub. I take each film holder and hold it with my knees flaps up obviously, and load away.

This is as good as Emil’s above-the-head method!

;^)

[Heroique]

No matter your holder orientation, most everybody in this thread (naturally) curses dust. And already, we’ve had some splendid recommendations about how to battle the tiny specks during the film loading process. Below are a few more remarks that I’ve shared before, and will be happy to share again. (Some have been mentioned above, but I think they probably bear repeating. :D)

To be a little more comprehensive, I’ll start a little before the actual film loading process, and go a little beyond it ... into the field. And I’ll concentrate less on film-sheet treatment (like Vaughn & Doremus “tapping” their sheets), and more on film-holder treatment:

1. First, I’ve purchased only new holders – or “like-new,” pre-owned holders – that really didn’t need any initial cleaning. (BTW, based on Zaitz’s post just above, looks like there’s a new convert to this idea!) I carefully cleaned them anyway before their first trip into the field.

2. When I load them, I first clean my work area of dust. Doremus has described this well above. For me, this simply means wiping or lightly sponging my work surface where the holders will sit. (And if it’s convenient, I’ll load them sometime after taking a shower. No, not to clean myself before loading, though that may be an unintended benefit. It’s to knock dust/static electricity out of the air, a problem in my work area.)

3. After loading a holder, I’ll place it in its own brand-new zip-lock bag. And I place these individual bags in another larger one, ready for my next field trip.

4. In the field, I minimize the time a holder is in the air. (This, I think, is among the most neglected of field habits, even by the most careful of photographers.) Only when I’m ready for a shutter click do I remove the holder from its bag. And after the click, back into the zip-lock bag it goes. Immediately.

5. When I’m back home, and it’s time to unload, my first step is to wipe-off (sponge-off) the outside of the bags, especially if I’ve visited a windy-dusty landscape. This is before I remove holders from them. And it’s also well away from my film loading area. It’s yet another overlooked habit that can make a difference. I then repeat Step 2 before final unloading...

-----
“Dust-on-the-film” is now no more than a rare occurrence for me. (Managing dust around the darkroom enlarger or the scanner is another story.) And, I’ve never had to re-clean the holders – at least nothing beyond a casual wipe w/ anti-static, lint-free material. And that’s to remove the few specks of dust from the field that can only have landed on the holder during its few precious moments in the mountain air. ;^)

[Doremus Scudder]

Heroique,

To add to the dust-prevention regimen (Not too far off-topic I think):

I have only used holders. I've refurbished several. I find that dirty ones often have malicious dust and other particles collected in the light trap that like to hide there and only jump out when the darkslide is pulled. Running warm water from the tap through the light trap while inserting and removing the darkslide is a great way to clean these up and send them screaming down the drain. A little dishwashing soap helps in stubborn cases. Since the light traps are velvet-like material, make sure you leave the darkslide out and let them dry thoroughly if you do this. I dry them a couple of days.

Assuming that we start with clean holders when loading (vacuumed, brushed, blown, etc.), and we manage to get the film in without any dust on the surface (clean air and work area, minimizing exposure, etc., which has been covered pretty well here), then the most important thing is to keep dust from jumping on to the film surface when photographing.

I know that my camera bellows is just full of those nasty, hungry, evil little dust specks just hiding from me till the dark slide is pulled and they can leap, en masse, onto my film. There are also some of their cousins scattered around on my film holder before I pull the slide.

To try and control these hordes somewhat, I clean the inside of my bellows often. The vacuum cleaner is good if I am home, but in the field it is often just extend the bellows fully, blow with air from my lungs until no more floating motes are visible, and then a wipe down with a clean damp bandana. If the air is clean, then I leave the camera open and set up for a few minutes after this to air out and to settle the dust. When changing the orientation of the back, I'll blow out the bellows and let the dust settle as well if I have time. In principle, even if the bellows are dusty, but you can convince the little monsters to stay where they are and not jump on the film, you'll be okay. Therefore, I try to keep shaking rattling and rolling the camera to a minimum.

I always carry a lipstick brush or a soft make-up brush in a case in the field. I brush and blow off the film holder before inserting it. Somehow, even though the holders come from new, sealed Ziploc bags, there is always dust visible. Especially important is to get the dust off the outside of the darkslide and from the crevice under the light trap.

I also try to minimize exposure by taking the holder out of the bag and getting the photograph made as quickly as practical. Pulling the darkslide slowly and carefully is a good idea. If the little dust-devils aren't awakened by sudden movements, the may lie, sleeping, where they are till the photograph is made.

Often, I have to insert a holder, pull the slide and then wait for the light/wind, etc. In this case, it is more important to make sure the light trap is protected from bright light. I have a little fold-open black box I've made from the insides of old film boxes that just fits over the extended portion of the filmholder and serves to keep light and dust out of the light trap.

After exposure, I can relax: "go for it you little monsters" I say to the dust at this point, since they don't realize they'll just get washed off during processing (cue vengeful laughter from me)....

Best,

Doremus