dark slide going BEHIND film

[fralexis]

I had a problem this evening I had never had before. I have some older model Riteway film holders (4X5). I took a couple of shots and both times, the dark slide slid behind the film sheet when I reinserted it after exposure. One sheet I know I ruined. The other I got back to my darkroom before removing it. Is this common and is there a technique to prevent it? Thanks.

Alexis

[Light Guru]

Sounds like the film is not being properly placed in the holder to begin with. There are groves on ether side that the film will slide under to keep the film in place.

[Kevin Crisp]

Film must not have been in the slots, it fell forward during the exposure, and upon reinsertion the dark slide went behind it. It was ruined already by being out of position when exposed, probably. I've never had a problem with Riteways -- are you sure the film is full size? Even if you miss getting in the slots on one side the film usually stays put.

[Jon Shiu]

If the film has been loaded improperly, in the wrong slots or not in the slots, this could happen. When loading just pull the darkslides back and inch or so. Then guide the film under the film slots with thumb and finger of left hand.

I think if weather conditions cause the film to buckle severely this could happen, but never heard of it happening.

Jon

[Vaughn]

I double check for proper loading by feeling for the end of the rails with my fingers after loading each sheet. If I can't feel the end of the rails, I have mis-loaded.

I do have some Hoffman 11x14 holders that allow the film to sag enough to have the darkslide hit the film if the camera is pointed up at all-- frustrating!

Vaughn

[Gem Singer]

Alexis,

After you load the film into the holder, and just before you close the end flap of the holder and move the dark slide into place, flip the sheet of film upward with your finger nail.

You will be able to feel if the film is loaded under the side rails. If not loaded properly, the film will pop out.

Most modern film holders have a recessed circle under the end flap that allows a finger nail (etc.) to reach under the sheet of film when removing it from the holder.

That recessed circle can also be used to test if the film has been loaded properly.

[Heroique]

I double check for proper loading by feeling for the end of the rails with my fingers after loading each sheet…

This is one of those practical film-loading tips that few think about, but is a great way to confirm that your sheet of film is loaded properly. One can become familiar w/ how to find and feel the end of the rail (that is, its tip) w/ some practice. Just use an unloaded holder, close your eyes, and feel for the end of the rail, that is, its tip. Better, since there are two rails to check, try to find both tips on each side of the holder. Later, when you load a sheet of film for real, and load it correctly by sliding it under the two rails, you should be able to find and feel the two tips, on top of the film.

[Vaughn]

I also suggest to our students that after they have slid in the film, to slide a fingertip over to the notches of the film and wiggle the film back and forth with that finger. If it wiggles nicely, then it is loaded properly -- it also double checks to find out if one has loaded the film right-side up (and that they have pushed the film in far enough).

I have them load a piece of practice film correctly and incorrectly to be able to tell what "wiggles nicely" feels like.

I still occasionally find a piece of film inside the bellows of our 4x5 cameras (we have about 10 they can check out -- rail, wood folders and press).

PS -- Heroique..."Land-Scapegrace"...love it! Must have taken me a while to notice!

vaughn

[buggz]

Hello,
Being a newbie, I have a newbie question.
Was it easy to know that this occurred?
How did you notice this?
I have been shooting Fuji 4x5 instants.
Though, this next week, I intended to learn how load sheet film to holders.
Thanks!




I had a problem this evening I had never had before. I have some older model Riteway film holders (4X5). I took a couple of shots and both times, the dark slide slid behind the film sheet when I reinserted it after exposure. One sheet I know I ruined. The other I got back to my darkroom before removing it. Is this common and is there a technique to prevent it? Thanks.

Alexis

[Gem Singer]

Buggz,

See my suggestion in Post #6, above.

[Lachlan 717]

Youtube it; there are some really helpful videos there on many things LF!

[Vaughn]

Buggz,

See my suggestion in Post #6, above.

And #5, 7 and 8

[buggz]

Yes, very informative thread, Thanks!

[Vaughn]

...How did you notice this?


As I mentioned, often the sheet of film ends up inside the bellows (and one can have difficulties getting the darkslide back in). Do you have any holders yet? Take one sheet out of the box to practice with, unless you have someone nearby to borrow a sheet from (reject negative, expired film, etc.) I'd offer to mail you a sheet, but the cost of postage and the envelope is about the same as a sheet of 4x5 B&W. However, if you are going to use color, and have no one to borrow a practice sheet with, PM your address and I'll try to get a sheet of film to you ASAP.

Vaughn

[Doremus Scudder]

Definitely a misload. The last time I had this happen, it happened to three shots in a row in Valley of the Gods in Utah. The clouds were moving, the light was changing and I was cursing... I'd loaded quickly in a hotel bathroom the night before, and wasn't careful enough.

Since then, I've adopted the following loading scheme that helps me prevent misloads (haven't had one since).

1. The darkslide gets pulled 60-70% out. If you open it too little, it's too easy to mistake the resistance from the darkslide for the film being properly loaded in the slots.
2. Code notches are oriented so they end up at the bottom left of the holder. This also keeps the notches from impinging on the image area if the film slides down in the holder, which it does in some of my older holders.
3. When loading, I place the source stack face-down to keep dust from settling on the emulsion side. I pull the darkslide, take a sheet from the stack, tap its edge lightly on the counter top to dislodge any dust and then load it into the holder.
4. To check the load, I gently lift the bottom of the film sheet with a fingernail starting at the far side till I can feel that it is, indeed, under the guides. I then slide my finger to the other side, lifting lightly to check the near side. In the process I feel the code notch to make sure it is in the right position.

This has taken care of my occasional misloads.

If you are not used to handling film, do sacrifice a sheet (you may still have the ones that misloaded :p ) and practice in the light and then with your eyes closed till you are confident. It's really easy once you get the hang of it.

Hope this helps.

Doremus

[John Kasaian]

Definitely a misload. The last time I had this happen, it happened to three shots in a row in Valley of the Gods in Utah. The clouds were moving, the light was changing and I was cursing... I'd loaded quickly in a hotel bathroom the night before, and wasn't careful enough.

Since then, I've adopted the following loading scheme that helps me prevent misloads (haven't had one since).

1. The darkslide gets pulled 60-70% out. If you open it too little, it's too easy to mistake the resistance from the darkslide for the film being properly loaded in the slots.
2. Code notches are oriented so they end up at the bottom left of the holder. This also keeps the notches from impinging on the image area if the film slides down in the holder, which it does in some of my older holders.
3. When loading, I place the source stack face-down to keep dust from settling on the emulsion side. I pull the darkslide, take a sheet from the stack, tap its edge lightly on the counter top to dislodge any dust and then load it into the holder.
4. To check the load, I gently lift the bottom of the film sheet with a fingernail starting at the far side till I can feel that it is, indeed, under the guides. I then slide my finger to the other side, lifting lightly to check the near side. In the process I feel the code notch to make sure it is in the right position.

This has taken care of my occasional misloads.

If you are not used to handling film, do sacrifice a sheet (you may still have the ones that misloaded :p ) and practice in the light and then with your eyes closed till you are confident. It's really easy once you get the hang of it.

Hope this helps.

Doremus

I agree---I never withdraw the darkslide all the way out of the holder.

[Vaughn]

I agree---I never withdraw the darkslide all the way out of the holder.

I draw the darkslide about 1/3 of the way out. Plenty far enough to check the end of the rails to make sure the film is loaded properly -- and reduces the opportunity for dust (and beard hairs!) to fall onto the film before the darkslide is slid back shut.

Our students tend to freak out a little about the idea of loading film holders -- but I just tell them that compared to the loading of 35mm film on metal reels (which they should have "mastered" by this time) loading 4x5 film is a breeze!

[Heroique]

...Code notches are oriented so they end up at the bottom left of the holder...

I’ve always thought we needed a poll asking which way you orient the holder when you load film. For example – vertical w/ opening side “up,” vertical w/ opening side “down,” horizontal w/ … well, you get my meaning. Depending on one’s method, it puts the notches of correctly loaded film in different places. Most of us, of course, know what Doremus means when he says “notches at bottom left.” But here’s an image to help!

[BrianShaw]

But here’s an image to help!

I generally load mine with the opening flaps facing up.... 180 degree rotation of the image.

So the notches are upper right for me.

[Vaughn]

I generally load mine with the opening flaps facing up.... 180 degree rotation of the image.

So the notches are upper right for me.

Same here -- and the film enters at about a 45 degree angle to the film plane with a slight pressure downwards to insure that the film slides under the rails.

Same technique for 4x5 up to 11x14.

[bobwysiwyg]

I draw the darkslide about 1/3 of the way out. Plenty far enough to check the end of the rails to make sure the film is loaded properly -- and reduces the opportunity for dust (and beard hairs!) to fall onto the film before the darkslide is slid back shut.

Our students tend to freak out a little about the idea of loading film holders -- but I just tell them that compared to the loading of 35mm film on metal reels (which they should have "mastered" by this time) loading 4x5 film is a breeze!

When I first started leaning LF (4x5) and of course I still am :) I had some trouble making sure the sheet of film was in the proper slot. I now only withdraw the slide as far as the start of the rails. Withdrawing it any further accomplishes nothing and makes finding the right point to start sliding the film in rather easy.. at least for me.

[E. von Hoegh]

I generally load mine with the opening flaps facing up.... 180 degree rotation of the image.

So the notches are upper right for me.

I do about the same, but I hold the holder over my head with the side I am loading facing down.

[alex villegas]

I usually block the darkslide rails - they're a bit shorter - with index and thumb. Film does not have other way than the correct rails then.