1800mm APO Nikkor

[Ken Lee]

http://www.kennethleegallery.com/images/forum/APO1800.jpg

A friend sent me a photo of an 1800mm APO Nikkor that he rescued from a company which made aerial maps. He says that for 1:1 copying, the bellows draw was 11.8 feet, namely twice the normal infinity extension of 1.8 meters.

[tuant]

Nice lens! Nowadays, nothing is too big for wetplate:) With a few boxes as bellows, this lens can be used easily:)

[sanking]

Nice lens! Nowadays, nothing is too big for wetplate:) With a few boxes as bellows, this lens can be used easily:)

That is some lens. Monty needs to have it for his 20X24" Ebony!!!

Sandy

[Drew Wiley]

Will it fit on a cell phone?

[adam satushek]

Wow! beautiful, that could be lots of fun

[Corran]

Whoa...

[E. von Hoegh]

Built in shutter!

[Ken Lee]

Built in shutter!

I don't see that anywhere. Do you ?

[Steve Goldstein]

That should fit easily onto an Ilex #18 shutter. ;)

[E. von Hoegh]

I don't see that anywhere. Do you ?

Right there, hinged to the front.

[genotypewriter]

Yikes...

Does anyone know what the angular field of view is like?

[E. von Hoegh]

Yikes...

Does anyone know what the angular field of view is like?

Between 40 and 45 degrees, probably.

[Louis Pacilla]

Yikes...

Does anyone know what the angular field of view is like?

I would bet something like 45-55 degrees. But the coverage is HUGH simply by fact of the focal length.

Hey E. you beat me to it. So 45 degrees it is

[Dan Fromm]

Shut the * up, stop fantasizing, and read Nikon's coverage claims: http://www.galerie-photo.com/apo-process-nikkors-en.html

[E. von Hoegh]

Thirty five degrees, twenty minutes. Tessar type. I was wondering about that.

[vinny]

only 19lbs too.

[Brian C. Miller]

I wonder if that is what Manarchy has on the front of his 6ft x 4.5ft camera. I'm sure he is using a massive process lens of some sort.

[Drew Bedo]

One of those short shipping containers mounted on a utility trailer would be a good start on the camera body. Build in one of those revolving dark room doors for access to the interior and and, . . . "Away we go!"

[seawolf66]

Lets see three 8' cement tubes one would need to be shortened and a diameter to fit the camera being used, a long rail rotation device such as a lazy susan
tape & aluminum 8" wide to help seal the tubes and add stability and some type of Cantilever extension
to hold the lens for support and few bucks to it with :

[LF_rookie_to_be]

Purely for comparison and jaw exercise, another 1800mm lens, actually put to use by one Roland Wirtz:

71147 71148

[E. von Hoegh]

What lens is that? With two, one could do stereos.

[LF_rookie_to_be]

1800mm f16 Rodenstock Apo-Ronar. Used for this: http://www.immediatus.de/NINE_txt.html

In action: http://www.notizie.it/wp-content/blogs.dir/65/files/2011/09/wirtz.jpg

[genotypewriter]

http://www.kenleegallery.com/images/forum/APO1800.jpg
A friend sent me a photo of an 1800mm APO Nikkor that he rescued from a company which made aerial maps. He says that for 1:1 copying, the bellows draw was 11.8 feet, namely twice the normal infinity extension of 1.8 meters.

So if this one is an "ordinary" Tessar, how does it explain the 3.6m (instead of 1.8m) bellows draw for 1:1?

[Ken Lee]

So if this one is an "ordinary" Tessar, how does it explain the 3.6m (instead of 1.8m) bellows draw for 1:1?

When we say a lens is 1800mm, we mean that it requires 1800mm when focused at infinity. The exception are telephoto designs, whose optical designs allow them to require shorter bellows draw than normal. Lenses designed for SLR cameras sometimes require longer bellows draw than normal, in order to accommodate the mirror inside the camera.

For a normal lens (not retrofocus), a 1:1 photo requires 2x the infinity bellows draw. A 120mm macro lens will require 240mm at 1:1.

M = (b-f)/f

where M = magnification ratio, b = bellows extension, f = focal length

How about a 210mm lens where the magnification is around 1:3. We can calculate the required bellows draw using the following formula:

Here M = 1/3, f = 210mm, and b is unknown

1/3 = (b-210)/210
1/3 * 210 = b - 210
70 = b - 210
b = 280mm

So a 210mm lens will require 280mm of extension to make an image at 1:3 magnification.

For 1:1

1 = (b-210)/210
210 = b-210
420 = b

So a 210mm lens will require 420mm of extension to make an image at 1:1 magnification.

[ic-racer]

So if this one is an "ordinary" Tessar, how does it explain the 3.6m (instead of 1.8m) bellows draw for 1:1?

1.8 x 2 = 3.6

[genotypewriter]

This typically happens at 1.45am...

[luphot]

It looks like the lens used by Ian Ruhter here (with maybe a different FL):
http://player.vimeo.com/video/39578584

[FrostySnaps]

people say this lens doesn't exist but it does and it is huge.

[Pawlowski6132]

people say this lens doesn't exist but it does and it is huge.

Why would anyone use this?

[Dan Fromm]

Why would anyone use this?

Why not? Large negatives require a lens with large coverage.

[NancyP]

That must be 40 # of lens there. Did they just build a room for it? That might be easier than building a bellows for it...

[Dan Fromm]

That must be 40 # of lens there. Did they just build a room for it? That might be easier than building a bellows for it...

Half that. Cataloged weight is 8.86 kg = roughly 19.5 pounds. Still hefty.

These things were made to be used on large process cameras with large bellows. They weren't made to be used as taking lenses for general photography but they can be used in that application.

[Amedeus]

Just putting it out there on a few places that I'm looking for either a Nikkor 1800mm or a Rodenstock 1800mm lens. ;-) Would be very happy with the Goerz 70.5" Artar also.

[Leszek Vogt]

Forget it. I'd have to sell a Hummer to get a set of filters for this beast. ;)

Les

[Vaughn]

Saw something like this in use in Yosemite Valley during the first week-end of March. It was attached to a big blue van and they were making huge wet plate images.

[Trevor Whitaker]

Vaughn, that's probably Ian Ruhter you saw - http://www.ianruhter.com/

[Amedeus]

Vaughn's description does match Ian's truck.


Vaughn, that's probably Ian Ruhter you saw - http://www.ianruhter.com/

[Vaughn]

Vaughn, that's probably Ian Ruhter you saw - http://www.ianruhter.com/

Yep, that was the van! Putting the lens on the "camera": http://www.ianruhter.com/#mi=1&pt=0&pi=2&p=-1&a=0&at=0

Do not know if the photos in the link are recent, but that is one of the places I saw them (the other was at El Cap Meadow). I think they were hoping for fresh snow, as it stormed all the day before...but snow only came down about halfway into the Valley.

Edited to add: Must have been a different trip -- no snow in the photo...must have been from a visit of a different year.

[Amedeus]

Les, I hear you but I'm committed to this project. And I don't need the filters ;)


Forget it. I'd have to sell a Hummer to get a set of filters for this beast. ;)

Les

[StoneNYC]

Les, I hear you but I'm committed to this project. And I don't need the filters ;)

Still can't wait for my portrait! ;)

Hope by then I'll have upgraded to a puny 8x10 instead if my minuscule 4x5... ;)

[FrostySnaps]

I thought I'd share mine. It's just an 1800mm Nikkor f/14

I'll have more pictures up soon.

Cheers

[StoneNYC]

I thought I'd share mine. It's just an 1800mm Nikkor f/14

I'll have more pictures up soon.

Cheers

Whoops! I totally confused your user name with Amadeus (spelling) haha!

I love that shot, I also can't wait to see it!

I would be more than happy with a puny 1200mm :)

[Amedeus]

Even the 1200's or 47 1/2" are hard to find ...




I would be more than happy with a puny 1200mm :)

[Amedeus]

Actually ... I did find a 1200mm RDA through a forum member, so I'm all set for 1200 mm's ... I'm still looking for a longer lens, any APO between 1700 and 1800 mm would fulfill my needs ...


Even the 1200's or 47 1/2" are hard to find ...

[pierre506]

116587
116588

Just got Nikkor 1210mm lens with telescope.
Let's find the moon.

[StoneNYC]

116587
116588

Just got Nikkor 1210mm lens with telescope.
Let's find the moon.

Darn!!! Thanks awesome! But probably not LF lol

[StoneNYC]

Not an 1800 but a 1200 brass on eBay...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261539820149

[Corran]

Not an 1800 but a 1200 brass on eBay...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261539820149

"Glass minimal scratches minimal fungus"
hahaha

[StoneNYC]

"Glass minimal scratches minimal fungus"
hahaha

Yea I thought that was fun, and the price... well... up there... but it's in a brass barrel. I don't know enough about lenses and designs to know much, except that brass barrels are older and that might account for the "minimal fungus" hah! But also could produce a very interesting image as I assume the glass is older and maybe petzval type? I dunno? Thought you guys would shed some light?

[Andrew Plume]

...and please see my post in 'the FS section'

andrew

[Drew Wiley]

Interesting lens series, but even the link missed quite a few of em, including the ones with both SQUARE and multi-bladed adjustable apertures. The longest one
I own is a 760, but it would be nice to have that 1800 mounted to a cell phone for more distant shots. It would all be soooo nice and compact, because you could even fit several spare cell phone cameras inside the lens cap itself, maybe an SLR too. It would make a nice jack for changing tires too.

[alex from holland]

How much does such a lens cover?

[Dan Fromm]

How much does such a lens cover?

There are two "1800/14" Apo-Nikkors. 1780/14, dialyte type, covers ~ 1160 mm, weighs ~ 6.4 kg. 1800/14, tessar type, covers ~ 1140 mm, weighs ~ 8.6 kg.

[Taija71A]

____

Agreed...

As per the Nikon Photoengraving Lenses (Code No 8205-01 KEC) and Apo-Nikkor Lenses (Code No 8232-01 KEC 603-1/1) Product brochures.


Apo-Nikkor 1780mm f/14 Lens.

Image Area -- 2310mmø @ 1x (Standard Magnification).
Picture Angle -- 36º.

--
-Tim.
_________

[Trond Kjetil]

That lens would be almost perfect for The Giant Mobile Camera (http://giantmobilecamera.com) :rolleyes:

[pierre506]

131181

2700mm F12

[StoneNYC]

131181

2700mm F12

You're kidding right??? Holy crap? They made a 2700mm f/12 APO Nikkor???? What??? What kind of coverage is that? Lol!

[Tin Can]

I Drew the line at 900 mm f9 APO Jena.

Plenty of coverage for anything I might do, my camera can support it, with movements and shoot 1 to 1, which requires 75" of bellows.

All the dog I need. LOL



sorry Drew, sometimes I can't contain myself...

[Dan Fromm]

You're kidding right??? Holy crap? They made a 2700mm f/12 APO Nikkor???? What??? What kind of coverage is that? Lol!

Achromatic doublet, more likely. If it is an Apo-Nikkor or similar most of the lens ain't there.

As far as I know -- could be mistaken -- the longest process lens cataloged is the 2500/12.5 Apo Saphir. I have a Boyer catalog with a picture of 13 of them and Eric Beltrando tells me that he saw a batch of 8 ready for shipment. So there at least 13 were made, possibly 21, perhaps a few more. Practically speaking the lens doesn't exist. I'd be happy if someone turns up a catalog that lists a longer process lens.

[StoneNYC]

Achromatic doublet, more likely. If it is an Apo-Nikkor or similar most of the lens ain't there.

As far as I know -- could be mistaken -- the longest process lens cataloged is the 2500/12.5 Apo Saphir. I have a Boyer catalog with a picture of 13 of them and Eric Beltrando tells me that he saw a batch of 8 ready for shipment. So there at least 13 were made, possibly 21, perhaps a few more. Practically speaking the lens doesn't exist. I'd be happy if someone turns up a catalog that lists a longer process lens.

Gotcha, pretty specialized, not many, probably hiding in a warehouse forgotten :/

[Dan Fromm]

Gotcha, pretty specialized, not many, probably hiding in a warehouse forgotten :/

No, not forgotten in a warehouse, glowing in the dark in Moruroa. They were made for photographing nuclear bomb tests.

A few photographers who've succumbed to Learoyd's Syndrome have been looking for 2500 Apo Saphirs for some years with, so far, no success. As far as I know, that is, I could be mistaken.

[StoneNYC]

No, not forgotten in a warehouse, glowing in the dark in Moruroa. They were made for photographing nuclear bomb tests.

A few photographers who've succumbed to Learoyd's Syndrome have been looking for 2500 Apo Saphirs for some years with, so far, no success. As far as I know, that is, I could be mistaken.

I've been looking that syndrome up and can't understand how that relates to the lens.

[Dan Fromm]

Think Richard Learoyd.

[StoneNYC]

Think Richard Learoyd.

Looked him up, I had thought about direct positive Cibi, cool, theres another guy doing like 20x24 model work on Cibi.

Anyway everyone has to make art their own way I suppose, his was a little extreme to me.

[pierre506]

Achromatic doublet, more likely. If it is an Apo-Nikkor or similar most of the lens ain't there.

As far as I know -- could be mistaken -- the longest process lens cataloged is the 2500/12.5 Apo Saphir. I have a Boyer catalog with a picture of 13 of them and Eric Beltrando tells me that he saw a batch of 8 ready for shipment. So there at least 13 were made, possibly 21, perhaps a few more. Practically speaking the lens doesn't exist. I'd be happy if someone turns up a catalog that lists a longer process lens.
Yep, achromatic doublet.
He couldn't hold it if it's Nikon.

[noha]

Hi Pierre 506,
Please do you know where can I fined one of 2500 Apo Saphirs. Thank you
Noha

[Dan Fromm]

Yeah, 506, tell us where they are.

[StoneNYC]

Yea I'll take one too, but at 1/100th the cost of what the others pay ;)

[pierre506]

Hi Pierre 506,
Please do you know where can I fined one of 2500 Apo Saphirs. Thank you
Noha
dear Noha,
We all believe Mr. Fromm must be the best candidate to find such kind of lenses.
[emoji1]

[Dan Fromm]

dear Noha,
We all believe Mr. Fromm must be the best candidate to find such kind of lenses.
[emoji1]

Thanks, Pierre.

As I think I said earlier in this discussion I know that a few were made but have no idea where they now are. As far as I'm concerned they don't exist. Their sole purpose now is to excite dreamers who'd like to find one at a very low price.

[Daniel Unkefer]

Thirty years ago I worked in a color seperation house that had a process camera that would hold that 1800mm Nikkor.
They prolly had one or something similar.

[Tin Can]

You can grind your own faster than you can find one or work enough to buy one, if it even exists any longer. Maybe they got tossed, my former factory insisted on destroying almost everything just to keep it out of competitors, or employees hands.

There's a lens designer hanging out here, who knows how to make one...

[Amedeus]

The 1780 or 1800mm lenses show up from time to time. But I've never seen one for "cheap" and that is not surprising. My estimate is that there were less than 300 made in total between Nikkor, Rodenstock, Zeiss and Goerz. After all, the application for these APO lenses was highly specialized for a small market. Possibly some of these were destroyed when the cameras were removed from the lithography houses, I know of few lenses given away for free or cheap but now everyone that has one, knows the value or is aware of the scarcity.

It's not because one can grind a lens, one can achieve what any of these three companies did many years ago. I've approached one of these companies to resurrect the design and had to "whistle" when the detailed quote came back from my colleagues.

Designs that are 30 years or so old don't have the same glass choices any longer to build these lenses from. So it is beginning from scratch with a total redesign for each element utilizing modern glass. Each and every time you require micron precision on glass that is 6" in diameter, things get expensive real quick.

So yes, like Dan said, keep dreaming ...

YMMV.


You can grind your own faster than you can find one or work enough to buy one, if it even exists any longer. Maybe they got tossed, my former factory insisted on destroying almost everything just to keep it out of competitors, or employees hands.

There's a lens designer hanging out here, who knows how to make one...

[Tin Can]

I meant buying or making are both darn near impossible for mere mortals.

ymmv

[fdchen]

It seems to me that many people like monster lenses. If periscope is acceptable, I can help. A 1000mm / 100 degree version was built. A 2000mm / 70 degree version is under construction.
http://blog.xuite.net/fdchen/lenses/299105180