Schneider 90 f6.8 SA Classic - What was Schneider thinking?

[turtle]

This perplexed me since its release. It is huge at the front (82mm filters) huge at the rear (only just fits thru Linhof boards), weighs about 640g (300g more than a Nikkor 90 SW F8 and 200+g more than a Grandagon f6.8) yet has the same sort of image circle as the old f8 design (216mm) and the Rodenstock, but significantly less than the Nikkor f8 or Schneider 5.6.

Does anyone know what Schneider was thinking, or why this lens was designed this way? Does it have some particularly quality I am missing (aside from silver nose)?

I have also see next to none around, so assume they did not sell at all well. I am sure they are a great performer within their not so large IC, but at what a cost in size and weight!

I must be missing something!

Am I?

[dave_whatever]

That silver finish really shows up scuffs and wear badly, like a cheap punter SLR from the '90s.

[Dan Fromm]

90/6.8 SA Classic, covers 213 mm @ f/22. Sold for use on 4x5. $1,611.95 @ B&H

90/6.8 Grandagon-N, covers 221 mm @ f/22. Sold for use on 4x5. $1,889.95 @ B&H

90/4.5 Grandagon-N, covers 236 mm @ f/22. Sold for use on 4x5. $2,627.95 @ B&H

Nikon no longer makes LF lenses.

So, turtle, what's the problem?

[turtle]

Dan, have you looked up the size and weight?

Nikon might not make LF lenses, but one assumes that manufacturers are aware of the competition being a) currently manufactured and b) competition from the used market and in the case of the latter, improved performance is handy to market a new product. The XL series have massive coverage, the APO-L series have and extra 3 degrees (ditto the APO Sironar-S), the 350 tele Xenar is very small. From what I can see the 90 SA Classic does nothing differently to any other lens and all in a very large, cumbersome package with a smaller image circle than the competition. It is 15% cheaper, but vastly more expensive than a mint used lens so that was never going to be a great selling point.

My question was one of curiosity. It does not seem to make sense to me.

[jp]

Like a new car, it has to be visually different than the older used model, even if it's meant to do the same thing. Thus the silver finish. I don't like silver either, but the Henry Ford "any color as long as it's a black Model-T" thing is kinda old too.

Unlike lenses though, cars have a built-in obsolecence to encourage people to upgrade even if they don't like the newer styles. Same old brake lines to corrode and fail, exhaust and body parts to rot away, technology that time won't be kind to, etc... They live a hard life and aren't normally meant to be around forever.

Like cars though, there are certain people that choose not to buy used. These can be dependable customers for people like Schneider. There may not be many such photographers, but they'll take what they can get. Pros and advanced amateurs don't mind paying $2k frequently for a high end Nikon zoom or Canon L-glass for their DSLRs.

In order for the used market to get strong and be less of a bargain, lens owners have to start dying less frequently than new people get involved in LF. Schneider by themselves can't fix that unless they started making wallastons with cheap crude 3-speed shutters and become the lensbaby of LF. Ilford's trying, but with pinholes instead of lenses.

[Moopheus]

L
In order for the used market to get strong and be less of a bargain, lens owners have to start dying less frequently than new people get involved in LF.

This is the problem generally for all film-related products; small market for new stuff, relatively vast inventory of available old stuff. I myself was entirely scared of trying LF at all until I discovered that decent used gear could be had affordably. I'd guess, though, if you're buying for professional commercial work and can charge approporiately for your time, it's not worth hunting for bargains, trying to get old shutters working again, better to buy off the shelf and get a warranty.

[turtle]

someone once speculated that this model might have some commonality with the 90XL in therms of components. Total speculation, but it might explain it. I cant think of why else you would produce an enormous, heavy f6.8 lens with smaller image circle than the competition, past and present.

[jp]

With an enormous 75 or 90, you don't need to use bed drop on a speed graphic as the front element is way out front rather than the pancake style press lenses. I'd bet that's not a concern to Schneider or most users though.