Ken Hough in 2003

[QT Luong]

I have a comment on Ken Hough (Resources page) that reads:

"Ken Hough was trained at the Deardorff factory, and is a dedicated
Deardorff user from 4x5 to 12x20. He appears to be
knowledgeable and competent, but several people have complained about
his unreliable and/or unethical business practices. "

Recently, Ken has contacted me, asking that I replace it with:

"Ken Hough was trained at the Deardorff factory, and is a dedicated
Deardorff user from 4x5 to 12x20. He is knowledgeable and competent,
but has at times fallen behind with repairs due to a shortage of
parts that are now custom made for him. In 2003 he has nearly all the
repair parts for 8x10 Deardorffs in stock. Ken apologises for the
long delays."

If you've dealt with him, what do you think ?

[Hans Berkhout]

Missing parts or no missing parts, Mr. Hough has created a reputation of entering a contract (acceppting money up front) and not living up to it. Promises of completion/delivery followed by repeated lengthy delays. People as a rule don't change, and I say: proceed at your own risk if you are inclined to deal with Mr. Hough; you'll eventually get your camera back, with the work well done. However,have at least a back-up camera available to you.

[clay harmon]

Ken has had a 4x5 and 5x7 conversion back that I sent him over two and half years ago. He told me that they were done and ready to ship in April of this year. I paid him, and no backs have yet arrived. I have called, I have sent demand letters threatening legal action. Every time he says that they will ship in a few days, but they never arrive. He cannot be trusted to keep his promises, and if you send him anything, get ready for him to have both your camera and your money. He will say anything to get you off of the phone, and will forget you ever called.

Caveat Emptor.

[Michael Kadillak]

I feel sorry for those that have come to this venue for some direction after considerable concern that they will never see their camera again. But being a small community, reputation can be the rope that can either pull you out of a hole or hang you, but the choice is ultimately yours. All Ken has to do is demonstrate sustained delivery of what he is stating as the truth and it will take care of itself by word of mouth.

I remember an Italian truism that has some bearing on this situation - A person that is born round does not die square. The point being that a person demonstrates who they really are by their actions over time and good or bad, that is who they really are. I will bet that just like Clay, there are many others that are in various stages of dissatisfaction with Ken as we speak.

[Chad Jarvis]

I've only attempted to buy a single part (no service) from Ken on one ocassion. That was enough to leave a bad taste in my mouth. He had the part in stock, yet after numerous contacts it still took him six weeks to deliver. He is simply not a businessman. Then again, he's no Ron Wisner!

[John Kasaian]

I replaced the handle on my 8x10 'dorff with parts from Ken. He talked me through the whole process and even sent me extra split rivets at no charge after I screwed one up while installing the new hardware, so my experience with him is contrary to others here, but I thought I should mention it.

[clay harmon]

Just so everyone knows who we are dealing with, I have copied the email he sent me on March 12, 2003

He cashed the check I sent him immediately, and now will not pick the phone when I call. John, you are just plain lucky. I have consulted an attorney, and he says that the amount is so small that it really is not worthwhile to pursue legal action. So the best I can do at this point is let everyone know what an unreliable and dishonest person he is. The fact that he had the gall to write to QT and ask that his mention in the LF forum resources page be changed just sends me over the edge. If anything, he may be worse now than he has ever been. At any rate, here is the sort of email any future customers are likely to get:



Hi Clay, The backs are finally finished. Both split on a seam. One worse than the other. They pulled together fine and have stayed a couple of months under different temp. conditions. I replaced the springs on the 4x5 back and exchanged the 5x7 frame on the other. The 5x7 glass frame was worn on the "loading" side so I put a nice used one on.

Refinish 4x5 back...........................150.00 4 Springs 45.00, 1 shackle 10.00 55.00 Refinish 5x7 Back ........................ 150.00 Exchange frame....................... 30.00 (new 90.00) Sub Total......................................385.00 Shipping....................................... 10.00 Total..........................................$ 395.00

I discounted the refinish price by 50.00 a back and did not charge you for the split repair. Thanks, Ken





******Ken Hough Photographic Repair****** Specializing in Deardorff Refinishing Lens Recementing and Shutter repair Contributor to McKeowns Price Guide Deardorff Section Custom machined Photographic items Text Contents Copyright 1999 KHPR http://deardorffcameras.0catch.com/ Est. 1980

[Michael Jones]

While I certainly have empathy with everyone who has had negative experiences, my past dealings with Ken always worked out the way I hoped. Goods delivered as promised whether purchased directly from him or on eBay. Ken has never been the fastest person on the planet, but I learned in large format a long time ago to discount any announced delivery date (except from Dick Phillips or Fred Newman). I’d buy from Ken again.

Mike

[clay harmon]

Notice in the email he sent that he says they are 'finished'. That was on March 12. It is December 16 right now, and nary a back to be seen, 9 months later. He picked up one call from me during this time period when I called from a phone number that was not my normal number. The rest of the time, no answer.

No Michael, if you had good luck with him, then the operative word is 'luck'. It is not a question of 'slow'. It is a question of honesty and integrity. He represents that a job is finished, when it in fact is not. He gets your money, and then forgets about you.

There are some really good people in this business who have integrity, notably Keith Canham and Dick Phillips. I would advise people who have a low pain threshold to steer all your business their direction.

[Ted Harris]

I am not a Deardorff user and not a customer of Ken hough but I have been reading this thread with interest as I am one of the many who have suffered similarly at the hands of Ron Wisner. As one who has suffered interminable waits for supposedly in-stick parts I can easily empathize with all the negative posts but I do think there are a couple of things to consider in Mr. Hough's defense.



First, most of the posts do seem to point out that he is a really terrible businessman (as others have stated) but does od quality work when it gets done. Second, are there anby other choices out there? I mean, I can't help but think all this is over someone who is trying to keep a long discontinued product up and running. A camera for which parts have become increasingly scarce or nonexistant. Ever tried to do this with other long discontinued products? I suspect you will find similar complaints and issues.

[S. Preston Jones]

I am so sorrry to hear of the kind of unhappiness many of you have experienced with Ken. I have deal with Ken over the past 25 years and , while he is slow, I have had great work done by him. He refinished a 5x7 Deardorff that looked new when it came back; He put a lens in a Copal shutter ; took a lens that had baslam separation, cleaned it and put new baslam in and it too looked great. I have gotten lensboards and also bought a refinished back. He has also been a wealth of information on many photographic processes. I talked to him last night and I hope he will get all of your equipment back as soon as possible. I have had good service from him and even though I have never met him, I would still send work to him. I am not attempting to make light of your concerns but wanted you to know of my personal experiences. I hope in the end you will get all of your equipment back in the condition you desired.

[Michael Mutmansky]

Individual reports of good experiences with Mr. Hough are completely irrelevant to the question that QT Luong has asked. What is important is whether his business practices have changed enough to warrant the removal of the caviat in the static pages.

In business, there will always be people you cannot satisfy, and people you can. There are several people in the LF world who seem to have a preponderance of unsatisified customers, and I think it is worthwhile that the static pages address this fact. In fact, in most cases with the people in question, the issue isn't so much regarding the long delivery times, as it is about their bold-faced unethical statements overstating the level of completion of the product or grossly optimistic delivery promises in order to secure payment or complete an order.

I don't own a Deardorff, and I have never used the services of Mr. Hough, but I can assure you that the static pages have given me the knowledge to make an informed decision if I do ever need the services of someone like him.

The static pages and this forum has a bit of a feedback and policeing role on the nature of cameras and lenses, filmholders, etc., and the business practices of the people in the LF community. As consumers, we have much more power than ever before due to our ability to 'get together' in these forums and through the static pages. It is the responsibility of the moderators to ensure that everything that is posted is fair and truthful in that respect, to ensure that a person with an axe to grind does not unfairly use the forum for this purpose.

In this example, it appears that there is still evidence to warrant the continuation of the original statement regarding the questionable business ethics of Mr. Hough. As I said, there will be many satisified customers and some unsatisfied custiomers for even the best and most honest businesses out there, but until people no longer pop out of the woodwork with stories of promises not kept, and payment made with no delivery of product, I think the static page should remain as it is.

---Michael

[Michael J. Kravit]

Recently I purchased a number of parts for an 8x10 Deardorf refinishijng project from Ken Hough. Ken was cordial, offered very good advice, and shipped the parts on time.

With all the negative feedback, I felt it only fair to post a positive experience.

Mike

[Kevin Crisp]

I've mentioned my extremely negative experiences with him on forums before. I shipped the camera (I swear) the day before I stumbled onto lots of negative comments about him. I was hoping my experience would be better, but it was not. Deadlines were not met, promises were not kept, and I was misled on several occasions. Only when I made a credible threat of litigation (recommended by another forum member) did I get my camera back. Unfortunately, it came back very badly packed, allowing Ken to make a $300+ claim with the USPS for fixing the damage which was inevitable when you pack a wooden view camera so it rattles around in the box. And returning it for those repairs was a convenient time for him to do other things to the camera which had been paid for, but forgotten about in all the excitement. Yes, he is a nice guy on the phone, I agree. And of you like talking Deardorffs, it is enjoyable conversation. When the work ultimately was done, it was done well. But this is an issue of integrity, and it appears repeatedly with real life experiences from people who have used him. (Your issues with parts don't explain how you can promise to get something done in a week or two, if you've got unfinished jobs going back three years on your shelves.) If his request for modification of his well earned red flag had acknowledged this issue, and not made excuses, that would be one thing. But there is no recognition of what has gone on and without that I think deleting a warning I wish I had seen before I shipped the camera is not appropriate. This isn't a matter of someone well intentioned getting a little behind, folks.

[lee\c]

I have bought several parts via ebay for my Deardorff 5x7 camera. I have had a pleasant experience with Mr Hough each time. The parts were shipped properly and arrived without damage.

leec

[clay harmon]

The common thread here is that it seems you might have a painless transaction if all Mr Hough has to do is round up some parts and put them in the mail. Having him do actual work, on the other hand, is definitely a risky business, in my experience. One of the posts in this thread says that they have talked to him in the last few days. I have called about six times over the last three days at different times of the day, and I have gotten no answer. And I can assure you that I am not abusive or rude on the phone. The guy is just dodging the call.

[Bruce Barlow]

Why use someone questionable when you can get great work at reasonable prices with good turnaround from Richard Ritter??

[Eric Wagner]

My first experience with Ken was a good one. He restored a "Baby" for me in 1993, and did a nice job on it and returned it in a reasonable length of time. I sent a 5x7 to him in 1995. He submitted a bill for the work two years later, which I promptly paid even though it was 75% higher than his 1994 estimate. But then he did not return the camera. He had my camera for eight years and my money for six. My records show he promised 18 times to return the camera, the length of time ranging from "tomorrow" to a "month." I finally hired an attorney last March and the camera was returned in early May. He did a fine job on it and the camera looks and feels like a new one.

In a 5/5/03 email Ken wrote: "I still have a couple of new boards to lacquer for you. I started to last week and it triggered my asthma." More than seven months have passed and he has not sent me the lens boards, so I have my doubts that he has turned over a new leaf. Clay's recent experiences confirm those doubts.

"Several" is defined as more than two, but not many. So, if the comment on the Resources page is changed at this time, "several people have complained . . ." should probably be changed to "many people have complained . . ." It will be time to change your comments on the Resources page to positive ones whenever Ken cleans up his act and goes for several years without generating new complaints about unethical business practices.

[Kevin Crisp]

Well said, Eric. Note that MANY of the people having problems don't have issues which can be explained by a shortage of parts, even if that excuse is real. That means the proffered explanation of why the forum's caution should now be changed (i.e., parts are more available) does not explain the long delays. The only glimmer of hope seems to be that he does seem sensitive to criticism. Note that in his Ebay history he started using Ebay, got slammed a few times, then self-corrected and seems to be following through. The problem with a small group of widely scattered enthusiasts of an extinct breed of wooden camera is they don't have this kind of information when they do a Google search and find his very informative website.

[Patrick Troccolo]

He may have "turned a corner", but you can't prove it by me. I've been waiting a long, long time for lensboards. He will not respond to emails or return phone calls, he's just non-responsive after he gets your money.

[Kevin Bell]

I guess I now join the throng. Ken did a shutter repair for me some years back and I was satisfied. Now he has a back (eBay purchase, paid in August 2003) and my V8 with a reducing back. Been a year with no action, he is now ignoring telephone, email, and a certified letter. I am preparing legal action, and would like to hear either from those who were successful with litigation, or folks who would consider pooling efforts with me to increase the impact and reduce the cost of litigation.

Kevin Bell -- kevin@cameracollectors.com

I am truly disappointed in Mr. Hough's business practices.