Dallmeyer 5A... teaser [Archive] - Large Format Photography Forum

OldCrow

3-Mar-2012, 14:16

So I am on the fence about letting this go from my collection. I have a few emails out about more info on it as far as dating it goes. I would love to know when it was made, since these were rather rare then and far more rare now.I know I wont shoot it, it is currently sitting in a storage bin in my warehouse with some other goodies I stumbled across in my travels through the south. Glass is perfect, no signs of wear...

Feedback anyone? I know it has a 22" focal length, and is a f4. Yet I dont know much else on it.

69484

Joe Smigiel

3-Mar-2012, 14:35

1878-79 based on the serial number. There is a list for Dallmeyer, Voigtlander, Harrison and HBH Petzval lenses here (http://www.antiquecameras.net/petzvallens.html) near the bottom of the page.

Sean on the Civil War reenactors collodion forum might even be able to tell you who worked on the various parts of the lens, the date it left the factory, and who it was sold to. He has the original Dallmeyer records.

OldCrow

3-Mar-2012, 14:38

Thanks Joe! Anyone out there shooting with one or have any shots they took with one? This thing is huge!

Louis Pacilla

3-Mar-2012, 15:25

The only way to know it's true value is to place it up on eBay Don't take offers and let ride 7 days and at the least open your sell to most of the world w/ EMS fully insured ONLY. You'll make a killing.

I don't have a 5A but do have a much younger #102.355 4A last style. Unfortunately I, like you I have not used my lens up to this point. The 5A is a far less common FL then the 4A and the 4A is far less common than the 3A. They all do well on eBay but yours will really Kill

OldCrow

3-Mar-2012, 15:31

I am finding out that most of the big collectors that have touched and owned most every lens none have owned one of these. I am starting to rethink my idea of what its worth. So what is the current value of a hen's tooth and a unicorns horn now?

I hate ebay, honestly. The fees suck and most of these lenses end up getting sold off into collections that never get shot! I have had a ton of offers already. I am going to wait it out to see who goes the highest and is serious. Thats the best I can do.

Jason Greenberg Motamedi

3-Mar-2012, 15:34

I have one, about 10 years older than yours. These are pretty rare, I have seen or known of five others, not counting yours.

I used to use it a lot, probably made a few hundred 11x14 collodion portraits with it. I found it to be a great portrait lens. Sharp where it needs to be, and diffuse elsewhere. It needs a very solid camera and was too much for my 11x14 B&J. I have mine currently on a Deardorff studio. Value? I was offered $3000 for it a few years back, but am not yet interested in selling.

Here is an image of the lens on my old 11x14 B&J:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_TNPNdmlCIE/T1KhbFiu0pI/AAAAAAAABJ4/slD5l3ZjZPU/s640/camera_support.jpg
Note the support on front; this was necessary, and often found that I had to use two tripods plus this support.

Here are two random images I made with this lens.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-vfk4-VrhjOc/T1KhbMoOfJI/AAAAAAAABJ8/n_py9R-epE4/s640/Chip.jpg
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-5DtU0cI0y0g/T1KhaV_a_OI/AAAAAAAABJw/BgskWqJMvE8/s640/Kamran.jpg

OldCrow

3-Mar-2012, 15:50

Thanks Jason, this gives me a far better idea of what its worth. Judging that 3B lenses were fetch a from 700-1000 and they are not nearly as rare as these and now they are getting over over 2000 now... It would lead me to believe this lens would have to have gone up in price the same way if not greater then what those have. If 3000 did not get a sale from you then, it would lead me to think you thought it was low. So I suspect me thinking 6400 is fair, I am just cheating myself.

Well I guess I will just take offers on it for a bit to make up my mind to sell it or not. I would prefer it to go to a forum member, instead of disappearing into a collection that it wont be shot ever again in.

I wonder how many of these were made. Would anyone have an idea how to find out how many were produced?

parleton

3-Mar-2012, 15:59

I'm drooling :-') wish Santa gives me a DallMeyer 5A some days so I can put it into good use. Anyway good luck with sell OldCrow :).......

Jim Fitzgerald

3-Mar-2012, 16:12

I'm thinking that 6400 is fair. It is a rare lens. I wish i was wealthy because this would be a great lens for my studio 8A 11x14. 11x14 carbon transfer portraits are wonderful and this lens has a great signature. Good luck.

Louis Pacilla

3-Mar-2012, 16:17

OldCrow

3-Mar-2012, 16:33

I am honestly amazed at the interest this lens is drawing. I was just curious about it, since no one I know (except now Jason) has had one. I would really like some info on it. There has to be numbers for how many lenses were made or something.

I am still very on the fence about selling it, since I am very aware I will never have another one. I have an 8A as well, but I never shoot that either. I simply shoot my 10a and love it. Yet my wife is telling me to got get this out of the warehouse and cut a lens board and shoot a few plates with it before I make up my mind on letting it go for sure.

Maybe I need to listen to my wife...

Hugo Zhang

3-Mar-2012, 17:07

The lowest price for Dallmeyer 5a I can find is $430 in May 2007. See this link: http://www.cwreenactors.com/phorum/read.php?1,2232

And the latest price from an auction in Europe is 2,281.95 euro last year.

http://laoxiangji.com/%E5%8E%86%E5%B1%8A%E8%80%81%E7%9B%B8%E6%9C%BA%E6%8B%8D%E5%8D%96/2011326-%E6%8B%8D%E5%8D%96%E4%B8%93%E5%9C%BA/%E9%95%9C%E5%A4%B4-lenses/8594-dallmeyer-petzval-type-no-5a%EF%BC%8C1875

I maybe interested in your lens if the price is fair.

Hugo

Steven Tribe

3-Mar-2012, 17:17

The A series is "ordinary" intensity whilst the B series is the really fast one, remember. 3Bs are quite common because there was a demand for them - 5As and 4As are not common because not many used/use them - even in the era of Studio Photography. Rare, yes - but how many people need a 12x15" coverage petzval with some softness adjustment?
I assume this is not an auction, but the moderators may think differently!

Louis Pacilla

3-Mar-2012, 17:22

My money says it'll get $4000- $6000 on eBay & maybe more. That's what I think. I mean a 24" Voigtlander went for $12.000ish not long ago. Could be wrong but know it would be well over $2000 anyhow. Hell I'd just keep it if $2000 was all I was offered.

Hard to find a High Quality Collectible 22" f4 Petzval.

a 2007 price Has little relevance to 2012 pricing. I mean come on $430.

OldCrow

3-Mar-2012, 17:33

not an auction at all. Like I have said many times, I am not sure I am going to sell it at all. I am trying to find more info on it, like I have said many times.

I also read that in the Vade-Mecum also about the "Ordinary" intensity. I think it is amazing that Dallmeyer made a f4 and an f3 lens at the same time.

Since I am looking for info and nothing else right at this time. If I do indeed move to sell it, I am aware of the respectful way to do so as far as this forum is concerned. There is nothing wrong with people discussing what they feel it is worth. If it goes to sale it will be posted with a firm price or it will go over to the big fee pay site. No worries on that.

Geoffrey_5995

3-Mar-2012, 21:16

I also have a 5A but need to dig it out to see the serial #. Should be able to do this Monday. But as far as value for this and all of these rare large coverage lenses, it's only speculation. Ebay would probably be the deciding factor but it is a fickle testing ground. It all depends on who is watching at any given time and if there are two bidders who really want it. It can also end lower than the seller is hoping for. My experience with these lenses and Ebay is that you never know and there is no predicting.

Corran

3-Mar-2012, 21:18

Just curious, you found it in your travels in the south...care to elaborate? Just wondering.

I find lenses like this and their "value" interesting. My "real" job is as a recording engineer, and there are a couple of "mythical" microphones that fetch 4, 6, or 10+ thousand dollars because of their mystique and rarity (in good condition). But most of them go right into big pro studios for real usage. In contrast these puppies and other 100+ year old lenses are really only of interest to collectors and enthusiasts. Wet-plate and LF in general is a pretty small group in comparison to the digital crowd.

Anyway, the best thing to do to maximize the sale price is likely to do as suggested and put it up on ebay. Make sure no one else happens to have one on ebay at the time if it's that rare and it'll go even higher. Take a ton of pictures, offer free shipping and insurance and do it at a UPS store where they package it themselves to take that burden off you (and they 110% guarantee their packing so no issues can possibly come up) and you'll probably come out pretty well. Regardless of what you might think of ebay it's going to get the biggest audience.

OldCrow

3-Mar-2012, 22:01

I am not trying to get an idea of value. Most folks are aware that something is worth what someone wants to pay for it. Thats all. No matter what the person thinks its worth. Moving on.

I want info on these lenses. Anyone know where the shop was at this time? Was J.H. Dallmeyer still running it or was he too sick by that time? How much did they cost back then? Etc..

Steven Tribe

4-Mar-2012, 02:23

VM has good reliable information about Dallmeyer's history.
Sean McKenna has the original production/sales log books up to about the turn of the Century (1900!).
This gives the date of completion, specification (often missing on the engraving) and "customer name". Customer name is often shorthand - so yours may be entered as "USA" or name of the registered CEO for Dallmeyer USA.
He has a website with some interesting photos of the staff and workshops (very little unused space!) at Dallmeyers. I think I posted some here at one stage.
Prices in the UK in 1892 were as follows ( I have decimalised the old £SD system to just £):

Extra rapid

2C 15.75
3C 26.25

Quick Action

1B 6.25 without soft
1B long 6.75 without soft
2B 12.8 without soft
2B 13.5
3B 20
4B 40

Ordinary Intensity

1A 13
2A 18
3A 27.25
4A 38.5
5A 50
6A 60

Portrait and Group

3D 9.5
4D 13.5
5D 17.5
6D 26.5
7D 48
8D 58

OldCrow

4-Mar-2012, 06:55

Thank you Steve! Thats what I was looking for. I am trying to wrap my head around how much money that was back in 1876-77.

Mr. MacKenna must have had a seriously impressive equipment collection. I wonder how he came across the sale logs? That would be a great story. I would think he would be an interesting feature artist for the quarterly.

Its the history that gets me with all this stuff. Those images of the workshop are just amazing!

goamules

4-Mar-2012, 07:12

I've got an 1880s EH Anthony catalog that shows a 5A covered 15x15, and cost $450. That was a LOT of money back then, similar to $9500 today.

Steven Tribe

4-Mar-2012, 07:50

£50 in 1892 can be computed as representing the following to-day.

A. Using selling price alone items - £4,240.

or B. Using average incomes then compared with now - £19,700

OldCrow

4-Mar-2012, 10:00

That is simply amazing. It was a huge chunk of a persons income. This might help to show why it is so rare.

I think I need to make the time to get to the warehouse and dig it out and make a lens board for the 8A and shoot some plates with it.

Jason Greenberg Motamedi

4-Mar-2012, 12:38

Sean McKenna, when he checked the serial number of mine, told me that my lens was the only 5A made that year (1870). This seems rather abstract, but to put it in context, how may 11x14 or larger portraits you have seen from the 19th century? At that time you can find lots of 2x3 carte-de-visites, or 4x6 cabinets, but larger portraits were pretty rare.