How about going headless for landscape?

[Christopher Condit]

When I shoot landscape, pretty much always I want a level tripod top, to support a level camera. If I am willing to live with this restriction, what use is the tripod head to me? I've tried mounting my very light camera directly on a set of ultra light legs, and I don't see any disadvantages, beyond losing a couple inches off the maximum height. The tripod is more stable, and lighter and shorter folded up for transport.

Are there any other disadvantages that I am overlooking? I have wimpy shoulders, so I am putting together the lightest possible kit for travel, willing to make some compromises for weight and compactness.

TIA,

[David A. Goldfarb]

I've tried this (I think I started a thread on the topic somewhere long ago, before photo.net), and it works for a lot of things, but if I'm out in the field, sometimes I want to point the camera at something on the ground, and for that a tilt head (or something equally cumbersome, like a copy arm) is a necessity.

[Michael Kadillak]

A tripod head is a must for the exact reason mentioned by David. Murpheys Law says that as soon as you leave the head at home, everything photographic will be located at every conceivable angle but the horizontal.

Here is a suggestion and don't take this personal. Find a way to strengthen your shoulders to at least maintain what strength you have and hopefully improve it and your stamina. The local YMCA or a gym or an at home routine. Aging is a bitch and we as LF photographers need to consider our physical fitness if only because the equipment is inherently heavy. It is obviously important to be cognizant of intelligently managing your equipment weight without making logistical compromises such as a tripod head.

Good Luck

[John Cook]

Christopher, the very first step for me, lo these last four decades, in LF photography has always been to level the camera. Then if I want to look up at a mountain or skyscraper, I raise the front standard. If I want to look down onto a tabletop setup, I lower the front standard.

I have therefore reached the same conclusion about tripod heads you have. Great minds DO run along the same path. Although I must sheepishly admit it took that ten-pound Bogen geared monster head to enlighten me.

My latest acquisition is a Manfrotto video tripod with an integral leveling head. I set up the tripod as level as possible (without being meticulously anal) and fine-tune it with the built-in ball-socket thingie.

There’s not much on the ground that excites me these days. ;0)

[Paul Schilliger]

I too came to a similar conclusion, mostly because the head is often a factor of weakness even if the tripod itself is very stable, and first and foremost because I wanted something light. I use now a carbon cine tripod and levelling bowl from Gitzo. I find it a blessing every time I use it. It is rock solid, much more stable than the heavier Gitzo 410 with Linhof Pro 3 head, and light, less than 3,5Kg. The bowl is not quite as smooth as a bowl head, but it is easy enough to operate for precise adjustments. It provides 15 degrees in all directions which is more than enough for most situations and there is always the possibillity to adjust the legs. I fitted a Manfrotto quick release on the bowl. It can be easily unscruwed with the tightening lever to replace it with a cine head or a bowl head. Maybe not the best combo for studio work, but certainly great for outdoors.

[John D Gerndt]

How is this for crazy: I am building my 12x20 (rigid body, hey, I only have one lens to cover that format) to use three monopods instead of a tripod. If I am going a field with a rig of this size I need it to be simple, light and stable (I hope to get a wider stance this way too). I hope the contact prints are worth it.

Cheers,

[QT Luong]

For your information, Gitzo just released a new series of tripods with a built-in leveler ball-head that just adds 200g. I was shown a prototype of it when I stopped at the Paris factory last April, and it seemed fairly solid although not as smooth as a ball-head. I wanted to buy one, but I needed something for a backpacking trip last fall, and this new tripod wasn't released yet.

[Jim Rice]

I've been doing this for years, not so much for weight or stability, but because something always seems to be first in line for the $250 a J-250 head would cost. With a Ries I can get reasonable angles by leveling the tripod and pointing one leg foreward (to point the camera down) or backward, then extend that leg out at a greater angle.

[Arne Croell]

Paul, is that the Gitzo 1325V that you are using? I am debating getting one, mainly because it has spikes, not just rubber feet. How well do those spikes work? And does the part going into the bowl come with the tripod?

[Paul Schilliger]

Arne,

Yes, it is the G1325V with the G1321 levelling bowl. I grabbed one in a sale, it just had some minor scratches. Should I have bought one full price, there is also the G 1348 who is designed to be transformed to take either a flat plateau or the bowl and has four sections instead of 3. But now I think that the 3 sections G1325 was the best, only two operations on each leg and the overall size is still compact. The new carbon Gitzos have been improved in many ways: 3 angle positions as always, but smoother, the handles for tightening the legs are much larger and easy, and the spiked feets are really good. You screw the rubber ring in and there is a strong and long enough spike that makes the tripod much more steady on unstable ground. And the best: I was wrong in my previous post. It only weighs two kilos and the bowl 1/2 kg. At two 1/2 Kg, it is stiffer than any aluminum tripod with head weighing twice as much. I use it with a 600mm and with the Technika 5x7 as well, it is very steady and would suit any 8x10 as well. The folded size is 70cm with the bowl and max height is 160 with the legs not fully spread. Carbon is also much more comfortable to carry in the winter. I'll send a picture on your email.

Paul

[jantman]

I have a Cullmann Titan 200 legset which I use with a Cambo 810N without head. I just level using varying leg extension. The tripod is great, will support 154 pounds (it can hold me), and will also extend to about 7 feet with center column. I don't use that very often, but the column is solid enough to hold the 810N (19 pounds) without much vibration.

If I had the money laying around, I'd buy a Majestic head, or maybe one of the view camera heads from Fine Art Photo Supply. But I don't have the money to spend on a tripod head, and I'm not that crazy about adding pounds to my already too heavy rig.

[chris jordan]

i have found over the years that it is possible to get away with a much smaller and lighter tripod and head than the photo catalogs suggest. for my field 4x5 i have a lightweight bogen tripod and head that's supposed to be for 35mm only, and it works just fine for 4x5. for my 8x10 i have a setup for medium format that is not recommended even for 4x5. in strong wind it moves around too much, but otherwise i just set it up, count about thirty seconds for everything to stop jiggling, and make my exposure.

[Andreas Schmidt]

I also thought about using a tripod without head for my 4x5" camera, but found that you cannot always level the tripod in the way you need. Therefore I use a wooden tripod from Berlebach with built-in leveling ball. The actual model is Report 9043, which has a center column (which I cut off some part and use as a handle only), but they are also available without the center column if you want to save more weight. This seems to be a similar construction to the one Tuan mentioned for the new Gitzos.

The weight of the wooden tripods is a bit more than the carbon fiber ones, but much less than an equivalent aluminium tripod. On the other hand, vibration damping and ruggedness are excellent.

It seems that you can also order from abroad (www.berlebach.de also has English information) and the people at Berlebach are very friendly and professional to deal with. I was not happy with the ball fixing knob on my tripod (too small) and they sent me a nice handle as replacement.

[Arne Croell]

The leveling ball has been used by Berlebach since a long time, even before the Berlin wall came down, when they were part of "VEB Foto-Kino" in the GDR. I have used several of their tripods and they are quite good, although as Andreas said, a little on the heavy side compared to the Gitzo Mountaineer series. In addition to Berlebach (http://www.berlebach.de/e_index.php?PHPSESSID=42f7ff2216a3bf3d21878ddbffc95757) there is a very similar line (also with leveling ball) by the company Wolf (http://www.wooden-tripods.com/). (I am not associated in any way with either of those).

[Dan Fromm]

For those of us who already have tripods, there's the Bogen 3502 (sorry, don't know the Manfrotto number). I've had an earlier version for ~ 15 years, wouldn't be without it.

The question of the day is, since real cinematographers all use claw balls, why don't tripods made for amateur videographers have them?

Cheers,

Dan

[David A. Goldfarb]

This photo reminded me of this old thread--

http://shorpy.com/comment/reply/5699#comment-form

"Tripod head? We don't need no stinkin' tripod head!"

[Archphoto]

Those were the days..... syh.....

[Jim Galli]

This photo reminded me of this old thread--

http://shorpy.com/comment/reply/5699#comment-form

"Tripod head? We don't need no stinkin' tripod head!"

Hey! That's me 4rth from the left with the 5X7 Top Handle Speedy :D

[John Kasaian]

I do it quite often when schlepping the 8x10 around while on skis.

[Doremus Scudder]

Seems I'm always finding something in the field that requires the camera be radically pointed up or down, or even tilted off level. Photographing recently in slot canyons in the SW I had the camera pointed almost straight up; had to reverse it on the tripod head to get enough of an angle.

For me, a head of some kind is indispensable. However, for my 4x5 wooden folders, I've been using the Manfrotto/Bogen 3D 3025 head (I think its called "Junior" now...). Lightweight, no handles to get in the way and, when you loosen all the controls, it works like a ball head. I had a fancy Gitzo ball head for a while and I like this better, since the controls can be operated singly as well. Plus, I find it easier to set up the tripod quickly and do the leveling with the head instead of fiddling with the tripod legs.

I've even used this head with bigger monorail cameras. I need to make sure the knobs are really cranked tight, but it works just fine. There must be a big brother to this head that would work for larger cameras as well.

My 2 cents...

Best,

Doremus Scudder

[r.e.]

Can anyone confirm that the current Gitzo leveling base GS5121LV is the same thing as the old G1321, or at least close enough that it will fit a G1325 tripod?

Here is the current GS5121LV: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=NavBar&A=getItemDetail&Q=&sku=569209&is=REG&si=rev#features

Here is the former G1321: http://www.amazon.com/Gitzo-G1321-levelling-base-Tripod/dp/B0000A9DVZ

In another thread, someone said that one can accomplish the same thing just as quickly, or at least quick enough, with a Starrett 136 Cross Test Level. Does anyone concur with this? Here is the Starrett: http://www.amazon.com/Starrett-136-Cross-Level-4-Inch/dp/B0002FS104 I would think that the Starrett would have to be used before the camera is mounted on the base, which I assume is not the case with the Gitzo.

It's always nice to come across a thread that includes one of the late John Cook's wry posts.

[cjbroadbent]

I'm a headless monster too. See my tripods here (http://picasaweb.google.com/cjbroadbent/TechStuff?feat=directlink).

[r.e.]

Christopher, you appear to have three different models of leveling base. Do you have a preference, or a suggestion given that this is for an Arca-Swiss 8x10 and a Nikkor-W f6.5 360mm lens? I think/hope (the camera hasn't arrived yet) that my G1325 tripod, rated for 26.5 lbs, will be sufficient to hold everthing up.

[cjbroadbent]

...Do you have a preference, or a suggestion given that this is for an Arca-Swiss 8x10 and a Nikkor-W f6.5 360mm lens?
Definitely the carbon Vinten. The ball & cup are very large so no vibes. It weighs little more than the small carbon manfrotto. You can leave the stretchers at home when going outdoors. The Manfrotto video is less expensive, has neat stretchers but is certainly heavier. I use the Vinten for 8x10, and the small Manfrotto for 4x5. On top you need a pan plate like the Novoflex. If there was a larger plate, I would get it.

[Drew Wiley]

Self-leveling "angle finders" are much easier to use than cross-test levels. The Starrett
level mentioned above is the carpenter's one; the superior machinists one is better but
so fussy that I wouldn't recommend it in the field. Analgous situations with bubble levels - the hardware store kind aren't accurate. You need to get one from a machinist's supply. Another advantage of angle finders is that you can check your
vertical on the camera back for architectural shots much more accurately than any
on-camera level.

[Drew Wiley]

Christopher - as many know by now, I'm an advocate of "headless" too. And for
ultralight with MF cameras I also have machined a simple bracket for shooting vertical.
Much more rigid than a ballhead and about a fourth the weight.

[r.e.]

On top you need a pan plate like the Novoflex. If there was a larger plate, I would get it.

Ahh, so this is what is on top in the photo labeled "cup 442": http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/153281-REG/Novoflex_PANORAMA_Universal_Panorama_Plate.html

[Brian Ellis]

I don't know about "more stable." Maybe "more stable but the extra stability is beyond the point where it makes any difference." Millions of technically excellent photographs have been made using tripod heads. For me they're indispensable. I don't make many landscape photographs where the camera is perfectly level front to back. I almost always make at least a small adjustment up or down, e.g. to include more of the foreground or cut some of it out, to include something up high, etc. Theoretically I could adjust the tripod legs to aim the camera down to deal with the foreground but that would require going back and forth from the front of the camera to the back until I got it exactly right which isn't very practical.

[Drew Wiley]

Just a matter of practice, Bryan. After awhile it gets spontaneous. And yes, it is more stable with the camera resting right on top of the tripod platform itself. Does
make a difference in certain cases, especially with the 8x10, with long extensions with the 4x5, or when minimum pack weight is paramount. But I do use tripod heads
for MF if speed is the priority, like a sudden grab shot along the hwy.

[Drew Wiley]

Sorry, Brian - I should have given you a concrete example. My own worst case
scenario is a 300mm lens I use on the Pentax 6x7. With a tripod head, I have to use
a huge old Bogen thing on my Ries A100 - about 16 libs - more weight than beneath my 8X10. And this assumes use of the mirror lock-up. But mounted directly to a set of tripod legs, with no head at all between, I can use my 3 lb Gitzo carbon tripod and get the same result (horizontal mode at least). By contrast, my little Ebony 4x5 is just the same directly mounted or on a lightweight pan/tilt Gitzo head, provided I don't use a big no.3 shutter. And most of the people I sell serious lasers to have
learned to mount them directly to a heavy wooden tripod platform. Gets important
if there's a breeze or other cause of vibration. Don't see surveyors using tripod
heads do you?

[Brian Ellis]

Sorry, Brian - I should have given you a concrete example. My own worst case
scenario is a 300mm lens I use on the Pentax 6x7. With a tripod head, I have to use
a huge old Bogen thing on my Ries A100 - about 16 libs - more weight than beneath my 8X10. And this assumes use of the mirror lock-up. But mounted directly to a set of tripod legs, with no head at all between, I can use my 3 lb Gitzo carbon tripod and get the same result (horizontal mode at least). By contrast, my little Ebony 4x5 is just the same directly mounted or on a lightweight pan/tilt Gitzo head, provided I don't use a big no.3 shutter. And most of the people I sell serious lasers to have
learned to mount them directly to a heavy wooden tripod platform. Gets important
if there's a breeze or other cause of vibration. Don't see surveyors using tripod
heads do you?

To each his own. I wouldn't photograph without a tripod head.