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jvuokko
25-Feb-2012, 07:54
Hi,

What Graflex Speed (4x5) models have a flash sync for focal plane shutter?

I have spent lot of time with google, but somehow I can't find enough information.


My Graflex is Anniversary - does it have flash sync for rear shutter? It would be really useful for barrel lens portraits..


Thanks,
Jukka

jnantz
25-Feb-2012, 08:12
hi jukka

http://www.graflex.org/helpboard/viewtopic.php?t=5616

it seems that the focal plane shutter was only sync'd with bulbs ( #31 )
and at the slowest speed. for your camera it is either 30thS or 50thS.

if you have an electronic flash, not bulbs, it won't sync at all ...

you could always paint with light though ...
have the room dark, leave your shutter wide open
and burst light on your subject until it is illuminated.
you could use any sort of light source, from a flash light,
to an electronic flash, to a lantern on a stick ...

have fun with your portraits !
john

jp
25-Feb-2012, 08:34
Right. no electronic flash with the focal plane shutter. A few aluminum work lights or brooding lights with big CFLs in them will provide plenty of continuous light for 400 speed film and 1/30th shooting at wider apertures.

It's a lot of money ($300 and up), but if you need x-sync, then mounting a copal-3 shutter to the front of your lens will get what you want. It could sometimes be done with filter ring adaptors and tape.

BrianShaw
25-Feb-2012, 11:39
it seems that the focal plane shutter was only sync'd with bulbs ( #31 )
and at the slowest speed. for your camera it is either 30thS or 50thS.

if you have an electronic flash, not bulbs, it won't sync at all ...

The 4x5 Anniversary Graphic has NO synch contacts on the focal plane shutter at all unless it has been modified.

BrianShaw
25-Feb-2012, 11:56
What Graflex Speed (4x5) models have a flash sync for focal plane shutter?


I believe in 4x5 that would be the Pacemaker Speed Graphic. Anniversary did not come standard with FP sych and Crown does not have FP shutter... nor does the even later Super Graphic.

jnantz
25-Feb-2012, 12:59
The 4x5 Anniversary Graphic has NO synch contacts on the focal plane shutter at all unless it has been modified.

thanks brian

i didn't know that ...

john

Jim Jones
25-Feb-2012, 13:53
In the time exposure mode, the Pacemaker Speed Graphic flash contacts close after the shutter has completely opened. If the ambient light isn't too high, a fast finger can double click the shutter for electronic flash. The shutter slots are too narrow for basic electronic flash at higher shutter speeds. On an Anniversary model, a microswitch could be installed so the shutter wind key trips it, but this would be inconvenient.

jvuokko
27-Feb-2012, 01:24
Thank you.

I have one Packard shutter, I can modify it to trigger flashes, but it's not as convenient as FP shutter.

BrianShaw
27-Feb-2012, 07:28
The two easiest solutions for you might be (1) using your Packard shutter, or (2) buying a Pacemaker Graphic camera.

HRPufnstuf
30-Sep-2016, 14:15
Well, I'm wanting to use an electronic flash with my Speed Graphic Anniversary Edition, and I can't find any posts discussing the setup I have: no X, no F, no M - my 127mms Ektar lens gives me the choice of a "5" or "20" setting (I assume milliseconds). Any way I can turn this into a X sync? The adapter cord is not a problem, just the delay.

Mark Sampson
30-Sep-2016, 14:31
You'd have to get the shutter modified by a repairman. The shutter (a Kodak Supermatic?) pre-dates the "F" and "M" designations and pre-dates electronic flash as well.

j.e.simmons
30-Sep-2016, 17:46
I once had a shutter like that. I was able to use one of the settings, I believe the 5. Set the shutter, attach the flash, open the f/stop look through the ground glass, trigger the shutter and see if you can see the flash through the camera.

HRPufnstuf
1-Oct-2016, 13:55
I once had a shutter like that. I was able to use one of the settings, I believe the 5. Set the shutter, attach the flash, open the f/stop look through the ground glass, trigger the shutter and see if you can see the flash through the camera.

Thanks. I'll get the Graflex to PC sync cord and try the 5ms setting. Depending on the length of the strobe flash, I just might get some light through there, although I'd doubt the full strength. I know that the lowest setting of some strobes is as little as 1/50,000 of a second.

Have to check the light at full strength with a flash meter, then see what a "properly" exposed negative looks like, and make adjustments as necessary.

Jac@stafford.net
1-Oct-2016, 15:05
Expose at 1/25th or less and be happy if the setting is on the lens.
.

Jim Jones
1-Oct-2016, 15:54
It's been decades since I considered converting a F&M synced Graphic shutter to X sync. IIRC it was a simple adjustment. Someone else had already done it to the F&M synced shutter of a 203mm f/7.7 Ektar I bought in 1973.

cooperyoung
22-Nov-2016, 12:56
Elsewhere a photographer wanted to use electronic flash as fill for infra-red film used against backlit subjects. There are two solutions with Speed Graphic. His exposures are typically 1-4 seconds, so he could use the T setting for shutter--for bulbs or electronic--hooked right to the Speed Graphic shutter. It fires (at T setting) when the shutter is all the way open. Then, when the time is up, he squeezes the shutter button again to close it. The second alternative was to use the sync contacts on the lens shutter, and this is where it gets complicated. There are many different types, but a T setting should work on any of them for long exposures, bulb or electronic. An X setting should work on any shutter--with electronic flash setting (only).

It was an error above when someone said use Graflex focal plane shutters on sync with 31 bulbs or equivalent at slow speeds--on the contrary, they sync with such bulbs only at speeds of 250 and 1000. The other speeds are red to indicate this. These are apparently faster movements of the curtain than the other speeds. The Graflex manual stresses this, and says you must use between-the-lens shutters with flash sync for any other speeds--the flash determined by the shutter sync (M, X, or other). There is no way to convert an X sync shutter to M (or the reverse) without senseless violence. The B setting might work, but not for bright light fill. Dedicated flash today, made for Canon or Nikon, etc., are another kettle of fish, as the current from flash might go into the cameras wiring, and I have heard second hand of cardiac arrest from it (for the camera).

Bob Salomon
22-Nov-2016, 13:55
Elsewhere a photographer wanted to use electronic flash as fill for infra-red film used against backlit subjects. There are two solutions with Speed Graphic. His exposures are typically 1-4 seconds, so he could use the T setting for shutter--for bulbs or electronic--hooked right to the Speed Graphic shutter. It fires (at T setting) when the shutter is all the way open. Then, when the time is up, he squeezes the shutter button again to close it. The second alternative was to use the sync contacts on the lens shutter, and this is where it gets complicated. There are many different types, but a T setting should work on any of them for long exposures, bulb or electronic. An X setting should work on any shutter--with electronic flash setting (only).

It was an error above when someone said use Graflex focal plane shutters on sync with 31 bulbs or equivalent at slow speeds--on the contrary, they sync with such bulbs only at speeds of 250 and 1000. The other speeds are red to indicate this. These are apparently faster movements of the curtain than the other speeds. The Graflex manual stresses this, and says you must use between-the-lens shutters with flash sync for any other speeds--the flash determined by the shutter sync (M, X, or other). There is no way to convert an X sync shutter to M (or the reverse) without senseless violence. The B setting might work, but not for bright light fill. Dedicated flash today, made for Canon or Nikon, etc., are another kettle of fish, as the current from flash might go into the cameras wiring, and I have heard second hand of cardiac arrest from it (for the camera).

It isn't a matter of the speed that the shutter moves. It is at what speeds is the shutter curtain fully open to expose all of the film. That is the point that an electronic flash should fire.

Tobias Key
22-Nov-2016, 14:12
You could cheat the sync if you can get an electronic flash to burn for long enough. That is the principle behind high speed sync on a DSLR, the flash basically pulses fast throughout the exposure to give the impression of a single longer burning light. I have an el cheapo yonguo flashgun that has a strobe setting, it pulses a set number of times at a chosen frequency. I wonder if you could use that feature to emulate a flash bulb? If the subject was still it might work, but whether you would have enough output is another matter!

wombat2go
22-Nov-2016, 14:51
I have a Speed Graphic 4x5 here . Serial 910819.
It has a 2 pin socket on the clockwork cover.

In case it is of any use, I copy here some measurements I did with oscilloscope some time ago..

SPEED , SLIT HEIGHT[mm] , EXPOSURE[millisec] , CURTAIN SPEED[mm/sec
1000//500 , 3 , 1//2 , 3000//1500

250//125 , 8.5 , 4//8 , 2125//1062

60//30 , 25 , 16.6//33.3 . 1500//750

I remember checking the contact close time but forgot to write it in the book!
Note that unlike a 35mm slr, the Speed does not have a slit of the full frame height.
That means there is no possibility to use an ordinary electronic flash.
It may be possible to use HSS Flash ( multi-burst) possibly by a radio flash trigger.

SpeedGraphic
2-Jan-2017, 17:52
1: Use slow film, in a dark area. Open the shutter (bulb), hand-fire the flash, and then close the shutter... That's the old way. The shutter won't be open long enough to be a problem if you're using a reasonable film speed, a reasonable aperture, and are in a reasonably dark place to start with. In the studio just turn off the lights for a moment and have at it.

2: Want to shoot a locomotive? Tripod the camera. Lock the shutter open and take a walk, flashing multiple times (paint the subject with the strobe). Works for anything large.

3: Fill flash outside? Buy the lens assembly from any of the old Mamiya twin lens reflex cameras. Remove the lower lens along with it's sync port (it's just a double lens-board). Mount it in a lens board, drill a small hole for the sync plug, and tidy up the the wires on the back of the lens board with some hot-melt glue. You won't get movements, but the image circle is adequate for the basics as long as using the leaf shutter is OK. Can't imagine why you would really need to use the focal plane shutter.

It's all in being creative.

Dave

.

DrTang
3-Jan-2017, 09:21
OH..I went round and round with this years ago

seems that there is no setting where the curtains are completely open except for the 'open' setting for back focusing - and then it stays oepn uptil clicking it again with all the vibration that causes

I was trying to use brass lenses on a speed with studio flash.. I ended up getting one of them LUC shutters and firing the flash manually via the flashmeter..which worked okay since I can keep the studio dark

but I did find out that there is ONE..at least camera Graflex made where the FPS is open full frame for a moment during exposure and that is the 5x7 Home Portrait Graphic

I never got one (and years later got a Boorsum 5x7 reflex that is the same way.. but that's another story)

Carsten Wolff
10-Jan-2017, 02:24
Very few people mention gear the SG was made for, i.e. flash bulbs, these days. No reason not to use them though, just a bit more expensive and clunky in use. There e.g. still is an amazing, Irish (!), flash bulb manufacturer called Meggaflash. Try them, esp. for "special" projects. Nothing they can't make, esp to illuminate large stuff (Grand Canyon at night anyone?) and they have web presence!!!
Support them, folks; just sayin'.

Jac@stafford.net
10-Jan-2017, 08:03
What Carsten said! Here is Meggaflash's page: http://www.meggaflash.com/

I would welcome a revival of a flashbulb discussion.

SpeedGraphic
10-Jan-2017, 17:19
What Carsten said! Here is Meggaflash's page: http://www.meggaflash.com/

I would welcome a revival of a flashbulb discussion.

OK, I'll start! We can move it to a new thread if you like. One thing I'd write about if anyone cares is the arcania of how a flash unit and shutter-solenoid system actually work. Most people handing one have no clue. Should I put it here, or start a new topic?

Dave

.

premortho
13-Jan-2017, 09:16
OK, I'll start! We can move it to a new thread if you like. One thing I'd write about if anyone cares is the arcania of how a flash unit and shutter-solenoid system actually work. Most people handing one have no clue. Should I put it here, or start a new topic?

Dave

.Great idea. Especially because I don't have to write it. The problem of the OP is a shortage of FP flash bulbs. FP flash bulbs hold their output for a much longer time than front shutter bulbs do. They work on the principle of "Paint the light" from the opposite side of the story. The slits in the roller blind force the light to "Paint" as the slit moves across the face of the film, or plate. So if that company in Ireland can actually make FP bulbs, you are in business. You don't need a synchronized FP shutter. I use an external mechanical synchroniser made by Kalart. It is adjustable for delay. It also is a cable release. So getting FP bulbs is the only real problem.

Jac@stafford.net
13-Jan-2017, 09:45
Dave, the topic title seem clear enough to carry on in this thread.

And speaking of the solenoids, I have a hunch I can make a wireless remote using stock Graflex flash parts. I'll have to think it through some more, but the idea is to use the battery holder with a slave in which the slave will trip the solenoid - using an infrared filter over a little flash as the trigger.