DSLR Scanner: Workflow

[Peter De Smidt]

DIYS (Do It Yourself Scanner—pronounced like ‘dice’)--Workflow Thread

Frank Pertronio started this project by suggesting that someone come up with an affordable and contemporary drum scanner, as there is currently huge gap in price and quality between consumer and professional scanners. Domaz suggested using APS-C sensors and using them to take samples of the film, similar to what Gigapan does with large stitched mosaic images. This lead to talk about making a copy stand scanning system using a dslr, a light source and a movable negative stage. Both horizontal and vertical prototypes have been made, or are in the process of being made.

The original thread (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?84769-Making-a-scanner-with-a-DSLR) has become very long and unwieldy. As a result, I’m creating some new specialized threads for future project development.

The new build threads are:
Camera Supports and Positioning (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=7),
Lenses (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=7),
Negative Stages (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=7),
Light Sources (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?87536-DSLR-Scanner-Light-Sources),
Stitching and Blending of Images (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=7),
Cameras and Camera Control Software (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=7).
Workflow (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=7).

These threads are only for positive contributions to the development in the area in question. The project may not succeed, but we’re going to find that out by trying it. But we are not unkind. As the original thread showed, some people have an overpowering urge to say negative things about the project. I’ve created a thread just for this purpose. Please post your negative comments about the project here (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=17).

I would like to thank everyone who makes, or has made, a positive contribution to this project!

I'll be summarizing the posts from the original thread about stitching and blending of images here soon.

[marfa boomboom tx]

101879

[Peter De Smidt]

Nice! Care to give a little more info?

[marfa boomboom tx]

Can you build it yourself?
If you think that the electronics portion is required, are you ready?
Self assessment --
read this and ask yourself if you can do it: http://learn.adafruit.com/i2c-spi-lcd-backpack/assembly

How are your eyes?

for a small cost you will know..
+ soldering iron (http://www.adafruit.com/products/180)
+ solder (http://www.adafruit.com/products/145)
+ the above backpack... (http://www.adafruit.com/products/292)
if this was easy, then solder on... you can add the lcd and you have a readout for your 'toaster' (ID for all unfinished products. you have to say you're working on something.)
You can also buy a fully assembled I2C ready LCD readout.



if this was difficult(or boring), then read this:
http://learn.adafruit.com/light-meter/code-and-wiring

not really a light-meter for us, but it may tempt you into continuing into the pool.

[Tin Can]

Great idea Peter, I subscribed to all threads, but I will be a lurker trying to learn a trick or 2.

Thanks!


DIYS (Do It Yourself Scanner—pronounced like ‘dice’)--Workflow Thread

Frank Pertronio started this project by suggesting that someone come up with an affordable and contemporary drum scanner, as there is currently huge gap in price and quality between consumer and professional scanners. Domaz suggested using APS-C sensors and using them to take samples of the film, similar to what Gigapan does with large stitched mosaic images. This lead to talk about making a copy stand scanning system using a dslr, a light source and a movable negative stage. Both horizontal and vertical prototypes have been made, or are in the process of being made.

The original thread (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?84769-Making-a-scanner-with-a-DSLR) has become very long and unwieldy. As a result, I’m creating some new specialized threads for future project development.

The new build threads are:
Camera Supports and Positioning (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=7),
Lenses (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=7),
Negative Stages (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=7),
Light Sources (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?87536-DSLR-Scanner-Light-Sources),
Stitching and Blending of Images (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=7),
Cameras and Camera Control Software (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=7).
Workflow (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=7).

These threads are only for positive contributions to the development in the area in question. The project may not succeed, but we’re going to find that out by trying it. But we are not unkind. As the original thread showed, some people have an overpowering urge to say negative things about the project. I’ve created a thread just for this purpose. Please post your negative comments about the project here (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=17).

I would like to thank everyone who makes, or has made, a positive contribution to this project!

I'll be summarizing the posts from the original thread about stitching and blending of images here soon.

[Drew Bedo]

Not intended to be a negative reply: Please move this if it is perceived as not helpful.

I am visually impaired. I have had training with CCTV readers that magnify a flat subject onto a TV screen for reading(newspaper, magazine et). These are pretty low resolution, analog technology television systems that have a fixed camera and move the subject below the lens by hand.

My question is: Why not build a digi-scanner that uses a general set-up much like that? The analog TV camera would be replaced by a high resolution digital camera and the lower unit would basically be a light box on a stage controlled by stepper motors and a computer.

I would think that some of the precision positioning hardware is available from the 3-D printer industry or armature astronomy. Problems with light quality can be fine-tuned in-camera with white balance and in post processing.

This doesn't seem to be that complex a project in coincept.

Another thought: If this approach offers high quality scans at low cost, why hasn’t some major company done this already? The digital age in photography has been with us for what, ten to fifteen years (I know that is open for discussion) and the expense of high quality scans has always been an issue. Why is it that the best scan I can do at home comes from an Epson V750 or something similar?

[Peter De Smidt]

Drew, how is what you're suggesting different than what we've done?

See, for instance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXy7RJwIBAo

Why now? It's the confluence of favorable elements: low cost/high quality digital cameras, diy robotics and positioning work, advancement in software such as ever better stitching programs, the availability of inexpensive and easy to use microcontrollers, with active groups committed to helping people use them ...

In particular, the heyday of scanning was the mid 1990s, and most scanners still use that era's technology. For instance, I use an Apple G4 to run my Cezanne scanner. The budgets simply aren't there for further development of high-end film scanners. Commercial work has moved on from film. Contrast that with the huge advance in digital cameras. I remember when I bought my D200. So many people complained about increasing pixel count. The common wisdom was that it'd lead to more noise, less dynamic range.... But it hasn't. My D600 is significantly better than my d200 in all of those areas, and it has more than twice the number of pixels. Recent camera advances are the main driver of the viability of this approach.

[Drew Bedo]

Peter: Thanks for the gentle schooling. Thanks too for the U-Tube link . . .you are right. Thats pretty much what I had in my head. The potential for this project is exciting. I use an Epson V750 for my 4x5 and 8x10 scans. Seems to work OK . . . but just OK.

What drives this project forward: Is it the quest for the highest quality scan possible? Is it a quality scan at much lower cost?
Will this always be a fussy DIY thing or does anyone anticipate a commercial product from this effort?


It seems to me that the potential for swapping out cameras as technology moves on from mega to giga pixels is a major draw for this concept. Is such a scanner likely to come in at a cost (less camera) at or below a top-end flat bed scanner?

I am waiting for the Kick-Starter pitch! How far off is that

[JPR]

so this is for workflow ?

i new here : "hello"


i build rig like this


(top)

- d800 & rodagon D

- frame (C41 E6 BW any format)

- DIY lightbox

- DIY color filter (for color C41) or without ...E6 & BW

- elinchrome quadra 400w

(bottom)

housing is a old GDR copy stand


i "scan" @ 1/200sec f8 iso 100 @ full power flash (400w !!!!!) the flash is 60cm from the frame and all the blue & green gels eat a lot of light



WORKFLOW so far... ;) (for color C41)

1. try work direct on the RAW (NEF 14bit 75MByte) using Lightroom

(would be perfect for future but right now i cant correct it neutral)

2. i call it "Auto & Auto"

-press auto WB in Lightroom send to Photoshop 16bit Pro Photo RGB

-press auto color (you can fine tune this function by double click on white and black pipet)

-invert

-fine tune it from there

3. RAW to linear RAW to color neg (color perfect plug in)

- colors are kinda brown and not so saturated





any thoughts ?

right now i am @ the end i think and still i like colors from fuji sp 2500 even sp 3000 much more

i tried to use color checker to make a profile but the software wont get the colors from the negativ ...so error. i send a mail to the company suggesting to make version with invertet values in software. could be relativ easy i think

has anybody tried to photograph a color chart on portra or any other color C41 film ? ...and then try to make a profile ?


my better colors so far using (Auto / Auto)

108542108543108544108545

[Daniel Moore]

Thanks for sharing the details JPR. Great color from C-41 with practically no effort is one of the major advantages I've found so far. To correct the Raw file I use Capture One. It's as simple as first moving the black point to the white point and vice versa in levels to invert, and then pulling in the black and the white end points on the levels tool for each of the R,G and B channels until they are optimal but not clipped to correct color. Profiling color neg could only work for one batch of film, the same one the profile was built from so that'd be of very limited usefulness. I have not tried it, but that's the consensus.

Drew, I made my machine hoping to do better than I could with my V700, which it does in all aspects. I would expect the cost of a production DSLR based machine to be several times that of a V750 as fabrication takes considerable time. I'm hoping to see more DSLR stitching scanner designs. Perhaps someone will arrive at a design that is simpler to build and more easily commercialized.

[rbultman]

I stumbled across this link while looking for different techniques of converting negatives to positives. Some of the information on the site may be a little basic but it does cover overall image workflow in general. It does not cover stitching. Its a good place to start for beginners. One set of videos covers B&W negative to positive conversion and subsequent editing of the image in Lightroom.

http://dpbestflow.org/camera/camera-scanning

Regards,
Rob