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Jeff Dexheimer
23-Feb-2012, 07:38
I don't know what your experience is with dust, but up until recently I considered dust my worst enemy. I did everything I could think of to keep dust off my negatives. I kept my film holders clean as a whistle, store them in plastic bags, blow off my film before development and dry as dust fre environment as I could find. In post process, I clean my scanner religiously, blow air over my flat bed and each negative every time. Still, nothing seemed to work. I was beginning to accept the fact that I had to spend a ton of time in photoshop spot retouching on each image.

A few days ago I was finishing a set of negatives. Getting ready to hang a soaking wet one I accidentally dropped it right on my floor. Frustrated, I picked it up and sure enough it was caked with dust, dirt and hair. My only option was to run it under water. Under the stream of running water I saw most of the particles coming off; however a few stubbron bits remained. With a gentle sweeping motion of my tips fingers I rubbed the negative clean. I took utmost care to be as gentle as possible and removed everything I could see.

After I scanned the negative I was amazed to find my cleanest negative ever! Hardly a speck of dust to worry about. I have been doing this ever since. After photoflo, I put the neg in running water and ever so gently wipe it with the tips of my fingers. It works like a charm. My negatives scan nearly dust free.

I am not sure if most of you know this or have another strategy that gives you nearly dust free scans, but this was a revelation for me and I wanted to pass it along to anyone struggling with dust. If you have other ideas I'd love to hear them too.

Scott Walker
23-Feb-2012, 07:52
I do not scan my negatives but I have always wiped the negative (both sides) on my forearm, or between my fingers for smaller formats before inserting it in the enlarger. I know it's a very bad habit and certainly not what most people would recommend but it works for me.

Michael Cienfuegos
23-Feb-2012, 09:11
I have no darkroom at present, so I have to scan all my negatives. Between the dust and the cat, it is a never ending battle to keep my negatives clean. I find that a Staticmaster brush helps to keep the dust under control. They aren't cheap, but have solved a lot of problems for me.

cyrus
23-Feb-2012, 09:46
Cool to try it.

It is important to distinguish two scenarios for possible dust problems: dust getting on the negative during or pre-exposure, versus dust that accumulates on the negative post-exposure (during development and subsequent drying & printing.) You can tell which scenario is a problem because GENERALLY, dust that is on on negs pre-exposure results in clear marks on the neg and dark lines on the print, while dust that accumulates on the neg post-exposure results in dark marks on the neg, which leads to light marks on the print.

There are different tactics to deal with dust in these two circumstances. It appears to me that the solution you've discovered -- sweeping the neg with your fingers while washing and prior to drying -- doesn't address either situation so I'm curious why it works.

Some of the things you've mentioned make the dust issue worse, potentially. A dry environment is probably not good for drying or even loading film. That's why it is recommended to run a hot shower in a bathroom darkroom before drying negatives, since the humidity removes the dust in the air. Also, the plastic bag you use for your holders probably merely increases the static electricity and accumulates dust in the holder. (I used to prefer wood holders for this very reason until I realized that the wood itself generates minute dust.)

Personally, I think most pre-exposure dust problems arise from two sources: dusty environment whilst loading the film, and dust inside the camera (particularly the bellows) or the environment which gets on the neg once the dark slide is removed (the movement of the darkslide causes static charge to build up, attracting dust to the neg.)

Post-exposure dust problems are mainly attributable to dusty environments in the drying area.

Worker 11811
23-Feb-2012, 16:55
I just had a bunch of negatives that I was trying to print that were very dusty even though I tried pretty hard to keep them clean. When I tried to print them, I couldn't blow them clean and I couldn't brush them clean. There were a lot of tiny, little particles stuck in the emulsion. Many of them were too small to see until you started enlarging.

I soaked the negs in warm water and Photo-Flo for a few minutes. I took a Q-Tip, dipped it into the solution and very carefully, rubbed the negatives on both sides. Making sure the negative and the Q-Tip was submerged the whole time. I hung them up to dry and used a syringe to squirt Photo-Flo solution onto the negative as it hung. Like the OP said, I could see the dust particles falling off the film.

After the film dried, there were virtually no dust particles. What dust was there was easily brushed away or blown off with canned air.

Ari
23-Feb-2012, 18:10
I just don't think about it; that way it doesn't worry me.

:)

cyrus
24-Feb-2012, 15:32
Dry your negs while they're "face down" and this should not be a problem

Andrew O'Neill
24-Feb-2012, 17:28
When the negative is in the photoflo (actually I use fuji's version as I've still got heaps of it), I always gently wipe my fingers over both surfaces.

snay1345
25-Feb-2012, 08:02
Doesn't wiping the negatives after putting them in photoflo reduce the effect of the photoflo? I have always just pulled them out and hung them not touching them after they have been in the photoflo. If this isn't the case I might have to rethink my negative drying.

Nguss
26-Feb-2012, 11:23
This is most likely a daft question, but can you not buy wipes to get the dust off / clean the negative? If so, how useful are they? I am only asking as I have recently picked up a drum scanner and the company I was buying the scanning fluid from suggested them. If they don't work or are of minimal use however I would sooner skip them.

wclark5179
26-Feb-2012, 11:43
Are you still dropping your negatives on the floor? What a way to keep your floor clean! Just kidding.

I've found that winter air (dry) up here in Minnesota seems to be better for dust to float around.

I dry my film using the curtain rod for a shower. Then I have a coat hanger rigged up to hang on the curtain rod and clips for the film to hang on. Had to take the coat hanger apart to put on the clips.

macandal
21-Nov-2013, 17:21
Cool to try it.

It is important to distinguish two scenarios for possible dust problems: dust getting on the negative during or pre-exposure, versus dust that accumulates on the negative post-exposure (during development and subsequent drying & printing.) You can tell which scenario is a problem because GENERALLY, dust that is on on negs pre-exposure results in clear marks on the neg and dark lines on the print, while dust that accumulates on the neg post-exposure results in dark marks on the neg, which leads to light marks on the print.

There are different tactics to deal with dust in these two circumstances. It appears to me that the solution you've discovered -- sweeping the neg with your fingers while washing and prior to drying -- doesn't address either situation so I'm curious why it works.

Some of the things you've mentioned make the dust issue worse, potentially. A dry environment is probably not good for drying or even loading film. That's why it is recommended to run a hot shower in a bathroom darkroom before drying negatives, since the humidity removes the dust in the air. Also, the plastic bag you use for your holders probably merely increases the static electricity and accumulates dust in the holder. (I used to prefer wood holders for this very reason until I realized that the wood itself generates minute dust.)

Personally, I think most pre-exposure dust problems arise from two sources: dusty environment whilst loading the film, and dust inside the camera (particularly the bellows) or the environment which gets on the neg once the dark slide is removed (the movement of the darkslide causes static charge to build up, attracting dust to the neg.)

Post-exposure dust problems are mainly attributable to dusty environments in the drying area.Sorry to revive this thread, but this is a concern of mine too.

I do not scan, so, keeping a negative clean, especially pre-exposure, is imperative for me. However, I have not been successful keeping my negatives clean (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?108381-Film-processing-issues). I have struggled with dark marks and dark spots on my prints that I don't know what to do. I clean my holders before and after exposure, and I make sure the surface where I'm loading my film is clean. I am also going to clean my camera, especially my bellows to reduce the chances of dust. I'm thinking that a humidifier would work in places where it is too dry. I sometimes load or process film in my bathroom and this could help. Also, where do you guys recommend I keep my holders when they're not in use? Do those storage boxes like this one here work?

105107

Or do they attract dust/static? If so, how do I keep static and dust away?

My main concern right now is black marks on my prints because that means that that spot is there forever; I don't worry too much about white marks on my prints because those I can remove from the negative. It just means I wasn't careful enough when loading the negative onto the enlarger.

Thanks.

Doremus Scudder
22-Nov-2013, 03:06
Mario,

Since you revived the thread...

It seems you are primarily concerned with pre-exposure dust, i.e., dust that is sitting on the film when you make the exposure which leaves pinholes (clear areas) on the negative.

Your enemy here is airborne dust, during all stages from loading to exposure. I have cut my dust problems here down to an occasional speck, so maybe my experience will help a bit.

First, you need to do more than just clean your film loading area, you need to get the air clean too. I find that vacuuming (Hepa filter and vacuum cleaner outside the room if possible) and wiping down the loading room with a wet cloth helps a great deal, but you can't do this immediately before loading, since you stir up a lot of dust in the process that needs to settle. I give it about an hour.

Then, run some hot water or somehow increase the humidity to settle as much dust as possible. Don't run filters or fans while or immediately before you load; you want the air as still as possible.

At this point, I vacuum my filmholders. If I'm doing this in the loading area, I try to keep the vacuum cleaner itself outside the loading room so the exhaust doesn't stir up dust. You need a well-sealed vacuum cleaner with a good Hepa filter. I have a brush attachment just for cleaning holders. I have taped the bristles on it so only the tips are free and all the air flow is concentrated on the holders. Clean the holders inside and out, paying special attention to the light trap. Vacuum the slides on both sides. Then, insert the slide and run it through the light trap a time or two. This often dislodges dust, so vacuum the inside of the holder again immediately before closing the slide. When finished, I place the holders in a stack and cover the stack with a Ziploc bag to keep dust from settling on them.

When ready to load, wipe down the work area again (and let it dry) before turning out the lights.

I keep my stack of sheet film face-down on the work surface, with one of the cardboard covers on the bottom of the stack. Any dust that settles on the stack when loading settles onto the back of the film. Take a filmholder and slide the darkslide halfway open. Take a sheet of film, hold it vertically and tap the edge on the worktable a time or two (well away from the open holder, of course) to dislodge any dust. Then quickly load the sheet into the holder emulsion-side up and slide the darkslide closed. This limits the sheet's exposure to airborne dust to just a few seconds.

After loading all the holders, put each one in a NEW Ziploc bag. Store these in your box. Don't open the Ziploc till you are ready to expose the film.

Before going shooting, set up your camera without lens or back, extend the bellows, and blow or vacuum the dust out. Do this regularly and then store camera when not in use with the back on and a blank lensboard or piece of Masonite/mat board in place to keep dust from entering the camera. Keep the camera clean on the outside and stored in a clean bag, etc. as well.

Don't pull the back off and try to clean the bellows by blowing air into them immediately before a shot; you'll just stir up dust. Leave sleeping dust lie :)

When ready to expose a shot, take your filmholder from its Ziploc bag and examine it for dust, especially the surface of the darkslide. There will be some (I don't know how it gets there, but it does...). Remove this gently with a blower or soft brush (I use a retractable make-up brush or a soft lipstick brush) before inserting the holder in the camera. Pull the darkslide just before exposure and be careful that it doesn't "snap" out of the light trap; be gentle.

Once you have made the exposure, you can worry less about dust till you process; any dust that gets on the film after exposure will not leave pinholes.

The same precautions are valid for processing film, with the additional measure of making sure that the water used for processing is free of particulates (FWIW, this seems to be the OP's problem). A final rinse in distilled filtered water with Photo-flo helps to get any dust accumulated during processing off the film. I squeegee my sheet film between clean fingers and then hang it to dry in the processing area (cleaned as outlined above). I leave and come back in a couple hours when the film is dry. Don't clean up or otherwise stir up dust until the film is dry and stored in sleeves or archival poly pages.

Let's leave the dust control for printing for another time... This is already long enough.

Best,

Doremus

P.S: Black spots on the prints can be removed by etching (my preferred method) or bleaching and then spotting. A search will turn up lots of discussion about this.

macandal
2-Dec-2013, 14:28
Mario,

Since you revived the thread...Thanks Doremus. A few questions, is it good to use an anti static spray to keep the dust away? How about the use of a storage box like the one I posted in my previous post to store the holders and other supplies. Lastly, how about the use of a humidifier to keep the dust from flying all over the place. My bathroom is where I plan to load my film and it does get a bit dusty. Sure, I clean it, but dust still makes its way there. I live in San Francisco where it's pretty dry and windy, so dust is a fact of life here, so I was thinking of a humidifier to control the dust issue.

Thanks.

Doremus Scudder
5-Dec-2013, 03:18
San Francisco ... Dry? Windy sure :)

Anyway, to answer your questions: I have never had the need for an anti-static spray. I believe in vacuuming and containing the dust, not blowing it around. Film comes packaged clean (from a clean room at the manufacturer). If you keep your holders clean and limit the exposure to airborne dust when loading, you will have solved 90% of your problem. A humidifier won't hurt, but your bathroom has one already built in: the shower. Just run the hot water for a while and steam things up. That settles dust quite well. FWIW, I use my bathroom in Vienna for film loading and developing. I clean as described above and run the hot water for a while before loading.

A storage box for your film holders is fine, as long as you put them in new Ziploc bags first. Otherwise, they will just collect dust. Put them in the bags immediately after loading and take them out immediately before exposing... again, limiting exposure to airborne dust. Don't think that a box you continually open and close to get holders out of is going to keep dust out.

For post-exposure dust control get a water filter and make sure your film drying environment is dust free.

Best,

Doremus

andreios
5-Dec-2013, 04:39
Since the thread is revived now... :) My negatives are quite fine, but I encounter more problems with dust in the printing stage. I've thought about getting myself some of those anti-static brushes to wipe the film (and the neg.holder before printing. Would that help? Or any better solutions anyone?
a.

Cor
5-Dec-2013, 05:29
I have product made by Simco to clean my film: 2 anti static brushes through which you pull your film, it works reasonably well.

(see at the bottom of this page: http://www.fobo.nl/accessories.htm for an example)

best,

Cor