Selenium toner Kodak vs. Ilford

[bill2424]

I've always used Kodak in the past but do to short supply I will be switching to Ilford.Will there be a difference in dilution? I'm using Ilford multigrade fiber paper. I was mixing the Kodak 1 to 30 for 4 min. at 68 degrees.

[Roger Cole]

I haven't had any supply problems. Freestyle has it in stock, though it's listed as "low stock - call" but every time I've done that on anything they've had it. They also have their store brand "Legacy Pro" that's the same formula. I use the Legacy Pro brown toner and would use the selenium without a second thought of I couldn't get Kodak.

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/c306-Black-and-White-Chemicals-Toners

(Select "Kodak" and "Legacy Pro" to narrow the field. Direct linking to the narrower selection didn't work.)

Or do you mean "short supply at a local store or my usual vendor?" That's perfectly legitimate of course, I just can't buy anything locally and forget some people can. Also, I know B&H wont ship hazmat and I'm not sure about Adorama. No problem with Freestyle. Freestyle doesn't list Selenium toner as hazmat anyway, but it seems an odd material where some places do, some places don't.

[bill2424]

Thanks Roger. My local store has Ilford and I thought if it was similar to Kodak I would give it a try.

[Roger Cole]

Worth a shot. If I could get Ilford locally I'd try it. I'll be curious what folks tell you.

Actually I shouldn't be so quick to dismiss. I think there is at least one supplier of traditional materials inside Atlanta proper. I'm a born in country, dragged into becoming a suburbanite now though, that won't venture into the city proper without dire provocation (which usually comes from my fiance who thinks I'm silly and lived in Brooklyn, but then I insist she drive...) :D

[Allen in Montreal]

Bill, check the shelf life once mixed.
Most Ilford Chems only last 7 days once diluted with water. Not sure about the toners, but worth a check. If you plan on going back in the darkroom for another session the following weekend, stick with Kodak Chems.

[Peter Yeti]

That's an interesting question for me, too. I used Kodak rapid selenium toner a lot and was very satisfied with the results. It became very difficult to get this stuff here because it's quite poisonous. I used a different selenium toner instead (from Berg), which was supposed to be the same like Kodak but would give a fairly different hue of the prints. I use Ilfobrom FB Galerie. As far as I know, Kodak Rapid Selenium is something like 5% sodium selenide plus 30% sodium sulfite in water and should be fool proof to reproduce. However, my experience with that Berg toner indicated that there might be something else. Or they use a different concentration of the stock solution? Anyway, if you make any experience with that Ilford toner, I would be very interested in that.

Peter

[Oren Grad]

Also, I know B&H wont ship hazmat

B&H does ship Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner. They won't ship Indicator Stop Bath, but they will ship other stop baths, so I imagine that one is just because of the concentration.

[cowanw]

"Most Ilford Chems only last 7 days once diluted with water."
Well, sort of
in an open tray

Unreplenished ILFORD RAPID FIXER working strength solutions should last for up to:-
6 months in full tightly capped bottles
2 months in a tank or dish/tray with a floating lid
1 month in a half full tightly capped bottle.
7 days in an open dish/tray

Storage
Full, unopened bottles of HARMAN SELENIUM TONER
stored in cool conditions, 5-20C (41-68F) will keep for 2 years. Once opened, use completely within 6 months, and keep all bottles tightly sealed until used.
Working Solution Life
Working strength solutions will normally last for up to 6
months in full, tightly capped bottles, 1 month in half tightly capped bottles, and up to 7 days in an open tray.

But then Kodak (as far as I can find) doesn't even give this information.
My take on the Selenium toner; it is the same as Kodak.
And if you are worried about Selenium watch out for your "Head and Shoulders"

[vinny]

that's quite a statement, hadn't heard that before

Bill, check the shelf life once mixed.
Most Ilford Chems only last 7 days once diluted with water. Not sure about the toners, but worth a check. If you plan on going back in the darkroom for another session the following weekend, stick with Kodak Chems.

[Allen in Montreal]

When we used Ilford at the wire service (mid 80s), we all ran on "Ilfo Speed last 7 days".
I have never checked since that time and have always held that as my rule of thumb for Ilfo anything.
You learn something every day! Thanks, I just downloaded an updated Fixer Data Sheet. :o





"Most Ilford Chems only last 7 days once diluted with water."
Well, sort of
in an open tray

Unreplenished ILFORD RAPID FIXER working strength solutions should last for up to:-
6 months in full tightly capped bottles
2 months in a tank or dish/tray with a floating lid
1 month in a half full tightly capped bottle.
7 days in an open dish/tray.............

[Roger Cole]

Thanks Roger. My local store has Ilford and I thought if it was similar to Kodak I would give it a try.

Worth a shot. If I could get Ilford locally I'd try it. I'll be curious what folks tell you.

Actually I shouldn't be so quick to dismiss buying locally. I think there is at least one supplier of traditional materials inside Atlanta proper. I'm a born in country, dragged into becoming a suburbanite now though, that won't venture into the city proper without dire provocation (which usually comes from my fiance who thinks I'm silly and lived in Brooklyn, but then I insist she drive...) :D

[Doremus Scudder]

To possibly answer the original question:

Harmon (Ilford) Selenium Toner
from the MSDS

Ammonium Thiosulfate 10-30% by weight
Sodium Selenite 1-5% by weight
Water 50-70%

Not very precise in my estimation.

Kodak Selenium Toner
From the MSDS

Ammonium Thiosulfate 27% by weight
Sodium Sulfite 10-15%
Sodium Selenite 2% by weight
Water 55-60%

More precise. It is possible that the Ilford product has similar proportions and they just want to leave some wiggle room in the MSDS. I'm not sure what the addition of sodium sulfite does for the Kodak product, but I don't think much. I keep and replenish my KRST, and I'm fairly sure the sulfite has long been oxidized in my working solution. It works just fine.

I should add that the above figures are for the concentrate, not the working solution.

I've never done a side-by-side comparison of the two.

Hope this helps

Doremus

www.DoremusScudder.com

[Michael Graves]

I have been stocking the Legacy Pro selenium toner since it came out. The first time I saw it listed, I bought a bottle of it while I still had ample Kodak Stock. Just for schlitz and gins, I mixed up a tray of each after a printing session one day. I made two of each of three different negatives. One was a richer, more deeply shaded image of an old building against a treeline. One was a church with very white sides against a dark sky and some tombstones in the foreground and the third was a photograph of Dogs Head Falls on the Lamoille River. I toned one of each print in both solutions. There was absolutely zero difference as far as I could see with these feeble old eyes.

[Roger Cole]

But the price difference is only a tiny bit. I use the Legacy Pro brown toner because it comes in 8 oz bottles where Kodak only sells it in absurd gallon sizes now. If I were placing an order for other stuff and they were out of Kodak I'd get the LP without hesitation but with both available... shrug, I get the Kodak.

[bill2424]

Thanks everyone for the help. I'll try the Ilford it sounds like the results should be the same as Kodak.

[baxjj]

Greeting folks!

Noon here with a question. I have been reading and viewing stuff about using selenium to tone B&W negatives. Could the Milford/Harmon selenium toner be used for this purpose?

Your thoughts?

Thanks,

John

[baxjj]

Er, Noon here...

[Larry Gebhardt]

Greeting folks!

Noon here with a question. I have been reading and viewing stuff about using selenium to tone B&W negatives. Could the Milford/Harmon selenium toner be used for this purpose?

Your thoughts?

Thanks,

John

Haven't tried it, but I see no reason it wouldn't work. It may not work exactly the same as Kodak's, but for negative intensification I'm sure you won't care. Ideally I test a less important negative before I do the one I really want. I'll frequently have at least two shots the were underdeveloped if I mess up the times.

[baxjj]

Thanks kindly for the advice. I hope to give to it a try soon. I will report my findings after having done so.

Cheers, John.

[Eric Biggerstaff]

I use both and see no difference. Have not tried the Legacy Pro version yet but will shortly, I would guess it will be the same as well.