Lightweight Horseman 8x10

[konakoa]

Hello folks, I wanted to share a project I did modifying a Horseman 8x10 monorail into a lightweight version.

The original Horseman 8x10 monorail is a beast. The camera is just shy of nineteen pounds--before a lens is even added!--and has a bit of a design flaw: the 8x10 rear standard is a big cantilevered L-frame that puts a lot of weight way off to the side. When mounted on a tripod the camera has a very strong tendency to yaw sideways from the unbalanced load.

I had an idea that if I removed just the 8x10 frame containing the ground glass and bellows, I could try to mount that one piece on my smaller, lighter 4x5 Horseman monorail camera. In a way I would be making an 8x10 conversion kit from the original camera.

All I needed was some kind of adapter to hold the 8x10 frame. I had some spare Horseman 8x10 parts (not from the original camera) that I sent along with my idea to the machinists at S. K. Grimes. Using the parts they made a sturdy new low profile adapter for the old existing 8x10 frame. The adapter has geared focusing and also allows the entire 8x10 ground glass to slide on and off like a quick release. It was a wonderful bit of work! I did lose all back movements, however the camera is now perfectly balanced; no sideways yaw at all.

The old 8x10 bellows for the camera were in bad shape. I had Custom Bellows in England make a brand new 8x10 bellows for the camera. They did a superb job with the new set and it took less than a month to create. Very nicely the new bellows lie extremely flat and are much, much more compact than the old bellows set.

By far the biggest bonus of doing all this is that I now have a 8x10 camera that weighs in at twelve pounds instead of nineteen. Even better, to switch from 4x5 to 8x10 is only a matter of removing the rear standard of my 4x5 and sliding the 8x10 parts onto the rail. The 8x10 frame with the ground glass and bellows attached is stored in a soft pouch alongside my main 4x5 camera. This makes it handy as the swap from 4x5 to 8x10 while out photographing takes but moments with a minimum of bulky parts!

If anyone reading this has an old Horseman 8x10, this is a pretty neat project.

[mortensen]

looks great! Absolutely brilliant idea. Sorry for asking about the pennies, but how much did you pay S. K. Grimes to do this mod?
Congratulations with it.

[Robert Jonathan]

Your rear standard and bellows are so clean Danny. Mine look like I got them from a dumpster. :)

[David R Munson]

That is really neat. Also, glad to hear that great work continues to be done at SK Grimes. It's a shame that the man himself has passed on, but good to know the quality of service is still high.

[konakoa]

looks great! Absolutely brilliant idea. Sorry for asking about the pennies, but how much did you pay S. K. Grimes to do this mod?
Congratulations with it.

Mortensen, the work was $185. I know that sounds like a lot, but keep in mind that Adam and Joel at S. K. Grimes took unrelated spare parts and machined them together with such precision that the new 8x10 back is dead on square, perpendicular and parallel with the rail of the camera; AND it's removable. No simple feat. It doesn't look like much from my pictures but they really did fantastic work.

If I had attempted that myself tinkering in the garage I couldn't have done it with such accuracy. Likely, mine would be pointing off to the left and leaning down at the ground. :D

[mortensen]

Less than $200 - I'm amazed! really cheap for what it does, imo. You basically got yourself a 'new' camera for that amount.

[Tin Can]

Very nice. I wish i had the right parts. I have Horseman 4x5 L and LX and a Sinar 8x10 C. I dislike the way the Sinar wobbles on the round rail. The Horseman is so much tighter. I wonder if a Sinar standard could fit a Horseman holder, by some machining magic?

[snarkfarts]

That is very cool. Now if only I could cut some weight on my Sinar...

[jbog]

What did the new bellows cost?

Thanks, Jim

[konakoa]

What did the new bellows cost?

£180, or $285 US. It was well worth it as the battered original bellows were flaking, misfolded and had numerous pinholes that I just didn't want to band-aid with tape. The new bellows were truly custom made to fit my camera perfectly. Also worth mentioning is that custom bellows can make the bellows in red or blue material.

[Tin Can]

Now that I have a mint Horseman 8X10 LX and a somewhat rough 8X10 L, I may do this. The L has 20mm of bad shift rack gear from 40 to 60mm. I also have a new to me Unimat which could handle the conversion. I will need to tape the bellows or buy Chinese... Who was your bellows source?

I am also thinking of trying to adapt a Sinar P 5X7 frame to the Horseman rail and quit Sinar altogether.

[HT Finley]

If anybody is interested I have successfully designed and 3D printed a part that does this modification that can be easily installed by the owner with no outside machine work. I did it based on this old thread as the springboard of my idea, and installed it on my own camera. I am quite happy. Although the centering up and down is off by approx 11MM. That is, the front standard is 11mm too low. That means I have to design and print a spacer for the front standard, as I am not willing to give up that 11mm front rise. I will be doing this in the upcoming days. Although I AM presently using the camera by raising the front standard by the missing 11mm temporarily The picture you see is a 3mm thick proof print I made to be sure my screw holes and countersinks were right. They were (for my camera anyway). So I proceeded to print a 10mm thick actual part so it would be strong enough for the job. So far it has performed very well in the field. It is not steel or aluminum. It is only plastic. But I set my slicer for 65% infill and it seems to be doing beautifully. I don't bang on the rear standard or carry around the camera by it, so as not to break my part. But so far it seems to be quite rugged. The part that amazed me was my Ender 3 actually printed the screw threads well enough to actually work.

[Tin Can]

I bought and still use Konacoa's wonderful Horseman




Hello folks, I wanted to share a project I did modifying a Horseman 8x10 monorail into a lightweight version.

The original Horseman 8x10 monorail is a beast. The camera is just shy of nineteen pounds--before a lens is even added!--and has a bit of a design flaw: the 8x10 rear standard is a big cantilevered L-frame that puts a lot of weight way off to the side. When mounted on a tripod the camera has a very strong tendency to yaw sideways from the unbalanced load.

I had an idea that if I removed just the 8x10 frame containing the ground glass and bellows, I could try to mount that one piece on my smaller, lighter 4x5 Horseman monorail camera. In a way I would be making an 8x10 conversion kit from the original camera.

All I needed was some kind of adapter to hold the 8x10 frame. I had some spare Horseman 8x10 parts (not from the original camera) that I sent along with my idea to the machinists at S. K. Grimes. Using the parts they made a sturdy new low profile adapter for the old existing 8x10 frame. The adapter has geared focusing and also allows the entire 8x10 ground glass to slide on and off like a quick release. It was a wonderful bit of work! I did lose all back movements, however the camera is now perfectly balanced; no sideways yaw at all.

The old 8x10 bellows for the camera were in bad shape. I had Custom Bellows in England make a brand new 8x10 bellows for the camera. They did a superb job with the new set and it took less than a month to create. Very nicely the new bellows lie extremely flat and are much, much more compact than the old bellows set.

By far the biggest bonus of doing all this is that I now have a 8x10 camera that weighs in at twelve pounds instead of nineteen. Even better, to switch from 4x5 to 8x10 is only a matter of removing the rear standard of my 4x5 and sliding the 8x10 parts onto the rail. The 8x10 frame with the ground glass and bellows attached is stored in a soft pouch alongside my main 4x5 camera. This makes it handy as the swap from 4x5 to 8x10 while out photographing takes but moments with a minimum of bulky parts!

If anyone reading this has an old Horseman 8x10, this is a pretty neat project.