the wave - secret location?

[Curt Palm]

this is from a yahoo "snapshots - best photos of the week ending feb 17th"

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/snapshots-1320966603-slideshow/snapshots-021612-photo-1329423423.html

"Photographer Simon Byrne was one of the lucky few given the secret location of a stunning sandstone formation called The Wave. Simon needed a special permit before he was given "rough guidelines" to find the phenomenon in a remote area of Arizona. Located somewhere in the 112,500 acre Paria Canyon-Vermilion Cliffs Wilderness, the Wave is near the Arizona and Utah border on the slopes of the Coyote Buttes. (Simon Byrne/Rex USA) "


I've never been there, and I know there are a limited number of permits per day, but is this really a secret location?

[ic-racer]

Probably this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/ic-racer/2012/wave.jpg

[Darin Boville]

Maybe this:

http://www.zionnational-park.com/coyote-buttes-paria.htm

--Darin

[akfreak]

It is here The trail starts in Utah but the Wave is in AZ ( a few hundred yards in) Look towards the bottom right of the map! Hope that helps ya!
http://www.zionnational-park.com/map-paria-canyon.htm

[vinny]

"special" permit, I like that. He must be a special photographer.

[Brian Ellis]

The location of the formation commonly known as "the Wave" is certainly not secret. However, permits are limited and in that sense are "special."

[J. Fada]

Typical dishonest b.s. to make the photographer appear more special than he really is. There are only about 5 billion photos of the wave out there in the world and they pretty much all look the same.

[akfreak]

From a friend that has been there, Done that!

"You can google "coyote buttes north permit" to get to the BLM site. They give 10 permits per day by lottery over the Internet and 10 more on the day before you want to go by another lottery at the BLM field office. You have to be present at 9 am on the day before you want to go. This month there is an article in National Geographic about the area, and it has created intense interest.

The BLM signup lottery is conducted three months in advance, and there are hundreds of people who sign up for one of the 10 permits each available day. If you show up for the day-before drawing, anytime after the middle of March, there will be a hundred or more waiting around for those 10 tickets.

I was there earlier this week to pick up my tickets for Coyote Buttes South, which is much easier to get into, and they said that the day before, they had not given out all of the walk-in tickets for Coyote Buttes North, but that morning 20 people had showed up for the 10 tickets.

So, if you're gonna go, I recommend that you do it soon and still your chances will be small.

Sorry for the bad news. On the good side, you can get into White Pocket without a permit, and CB South is relatively easy to get into, although those tickets are going fast too because of the NatGeo article."

So now you know!

[Chris Wong]

A secret location, no it is not. One of the lucky few, yes. I think I have donated my 5 bucks applying for online Wave permits at least 10 times so far and so far I've been one of the unlucky many to come away empty handed.

[jonreid]

We've got a better one http://www.waverock.com.au/rock.htm

[Tom Monego]

this is from a yahoo "snapshots - best photos of the week ending feb 17th"

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/snapshots-1320966603-slideshow/snapshots-021612-photo-1329423423.html

"Photographer Simon Byrne was one of the lucky few given the secret location of a stunning sandstone formation called The Wave. Simon needed a special permit before he was given "rough guidelines" to find the phenomenon in a remote area of Arizona. Located somewhere in the 112,500 acre Paria Canyon-Vermilion Cliffs Wilderness, the Wave is near the Arizona and Utah border on the slopes of the Coyote Buttes. (Simon Byrne/Rex USA) "


I've never been there, and I know there are a limited number of permits per day, but is this really a secret location?

The folks at the BLM Paria station say it is easier to get in via the morning lottery, but may take 2-3 chances. Also have a four wheel drive vehicle, the road into the hiking trail is nasty. As it has been said just applying on the web has a small chance of succeeding but some do. They also recommend you have a hiking GPS, they will give you the coordinates. We went down to the campground by the ranger station, even there the rocks are interesting. We met the caretaker and he said there were a lot of hikes in the area that have interesting rock formations.

Tom

[Chris Wong]

In case anybody is thinking about going to the old location near Big Water to try to score some walk-in permits, the year round location is now in Kanab, across from the Wendy's in town. The information is on their website. I think they just moved there in the last few weeks.

[Dave Jeffery]

I was there on Thanksgiving day. A woman I met hiking at another park gave me a permit - I just couldn't believe it! She had been trying to get a permit online for 3 years. I just couldn't believe I had a permit handed to me.

I have gone to the ranger station two days in a row previously and not had my number drawn for one of the ten daily walk in permits. There have been over 110 people gathered there for the drawing. I allotted three days of my last vacation to line up for permits but the smoke from the fires in Arizona was drifting north so I turned around and drove to Moab instead.

The first time I went there around 11 years ago I was lucky enough to be able to just grab a permit and get in as a lot less people knew about the area. While hiking I met people that had been looking for the area for 16 years and a couple of women that had been trying to get permits for five years. The location is well know now but good luck getting a permit.

A lot of people get lost at the Wave. On my last hike a family of Europeans arrived at about 3pm and they were asking for directions to the Wave. After shooting the sunset I hiked out in very low light, lost any sign of a worn trail, and ended up crossing the ridge too early and had to scramble a little to get back to the trail.

I didn't see the other group on the way out and when I got back to the parking area well after dark there was a rental car still parked there. There were small sandals in the back and it looked like the family that had been asking for directions had not made it out.

I called 911 and a sheriff responded and he said that there was nothing they could do and that people that get lost just get left out there overnight. It was hot in the afternoon and the group did not look well prepared and they didn't seem to have much clothing so hopefully they were OK. The sheriff said that a lot of people get lost there. It is a wilderness area and I am glad that they haven't plastered the area with signs and trail markers and I hope it stays that way.

It was dark when I hiked in and I ended up backtracking a little to make sure I was on course as the map I had was not detailed enough to show one bend in the creek.

The most spectacular part of the day for me was hiking into the area in the dark. There was a beautiful white frost that lightly covered the pink sand on the trail. There was also frost on all of the surrounding sage brushes which are a nice light blue grey color and the leaves are so small that the frost covers a lot of small areas and edges, which creates a lot of tiny reflections. The reflection of the light from my headlamp made the frost light up like millions of small diamonds. As I was walking down the pink trail it was like walking through a huge tiny diamond display covering all the elevated round sage brushes. This was one of the most beautiful things I have ever experienced.

Having backtracked to check the trail and underestimating a little how much time I needed to get to the Wave and set my camera up I ended up having to run the last mile and grind up the hill into the Wave. I was sweating so hard the ground glass kept fogging up.

This was my first and only day shooting where every single picture was exposed and focused properly and I just couldn't believe all the pictures had turned out when I got them back.

It would be very very easy to get lost hiking in the dark so don't try it unless you know the area very well.

Epic day!

There is a camping area past the parking area on the Utah / Arizona border and it is the only place I remember being where there was no noise at all - none! There is absolutely nothing out there. You can't hear even on bug buzzing around or chirping, no wind through any trees, nothing but absolute silence which is so unusual everywhere now it seems.

[ROL]

So secret that a government agency permits it restrictively, books and calendars feature it, and nearly every shooter I encounter has been there.

It is however, worth the somewhat unstructured hike out there if you're in the area, camera or not. The wave itself is a very small area, and many of the images shown are, as they should should be, composed as to focus on the geometry of the wave formations themselves, rather than the general landscape.

Many years ago, I was "lucky" enough to walk in on a whim the day of a lottery (name on paper in hat) and win one of the 10 spots, pissing off several who had been waiting for days. It was my "tourist" day, basically working my way back home after 3 weeks in the Southwest. By noon I was back at my car, motoring off to the Antelope Canyon to complete a final day of iconic SW landscapes.

BTW, I met a gentleman at the wave from Kanab, who was guiding photographers. I believe, as I barely recall the name, that he is sporadically active here on LFPF.


http://www.rangeoflightphotography.com/albums/American-Southwest/YILH-KOHL%20%28Wave%29.jpg

[Drew Wiley]

They only allow twenty photographers there a day. That's how "secret" it is! The lemming
mentality. Can't anyone find their own compositions? Wonder how long it will be until permanent foot grooves are worn into the sandstone.

[Drew Wiley]

Why??? I can get unique photographs all kinds of places. I grew up a short distance from
Yosemite, owned property there for decades, and have probably taken less than six photos
in Yosemite Valley itself my entire life. The backcountry is a different story. I just don't like herds, and twenty people a day is a herd. But I am damn sick of seeing pictures of
"the Wave". It's become a cliche. A friend of mine wanted me to take him there because I
won a 4WD and sometimes travel the southwest. I told him I would do my best to locate
every famous photography and postcard site in the area, then once there, head in exactly
the opposite direction! I've spent weeks at a time in remote SW canyons with incredible
photo potential without seeing another person. I won't say where.

[Vaughn]

When I was a wilderness ranger for 10 years, people would ask me where I worked and what it is like. I usually told them all the things it did not have (granite peaks, lakes, large creeks, high elevation, etc). It worked -- I'd go out for ten days on the trails and maybe see two or four people the entire time.

[Drew Wiley]

Yeah .. I'll admit I'm an ole hillbilly. When we wandered off into the high country we never
saw anyone unless is was a neighbor out themselves. In the hot deep canyons you never
ever encountered anyone else, but can be really rugged country. I'm not anti-people; I
just prefer solitude for view camera work. Even around here I can find complete solitude
on certain coastal trails or back in the hills if I want. I don't mind it when a few hikers or
trail bike types stop to ask questions or want to look thru the groundglass. They're always
very polite and never interfere until I'm done with the actual shot. Touristy types are a whole different species. I wouldn't mind shooting in Yos Valley this time of year, but the
one thing that would keep me from it is that I like the lower hill country so much better
in the Spring, and you never see other photographers around there - they're all too busy
rushing to the official scenic turnouts higher up.

[Vaughn]

I have photographed a lot in Yosemite Valley -- why? Well, for about 20 years I had a very good friend who lived in a nice-sized house in the Valley (right behind the AA Gallery). He loved having me visit -- even if I brought my three boys (how many long-time bachelor friends welcome three 5-yr old kids into their home?!) He is a great cook and fed us very well. I did even have to pay the $20 entry fee at the gate since I was visiting a friend in the Valley.

So I could visit in the off-season without having to worry about weather. I could wander about and go where the masses were not. We even took a backpack trip from the Wawona Tunnel to Glacier Point, seeing people only the first and last days..while looking down at the bumper-to-bumper Memorial Day Weekend traffic down in the Valley. Camping on top of Sentinal Dome is pretty sweet.

Alas, he is no longer there and my trip there last week meant that I had to camp -- but the campground was only 1/8 full at most and the $100 for five nights is not too bad...after all, they do heat the bathrooms.

Vaughn

[goamules]

I've been to a lot of wavelike sandstone formations, hoodoos, and balancing rocks. But not in places that are advertised secret. Notice the oxymoron? Here is where my daughter and I hiked to last weekend, where I seldom see people or even signs of them. Boulders galore. In another part of Arizona:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7069/6933771289_fa0abbec99_b.jpg

[evan clarke]

Stay away from anywhere "shooters" go...

[Vaughn]

Stay away from anywhere "shooters" go...

And don't eat the yellow snow...:cool:

[Jan Pedersen]

Completely agree with Dakotah Jackson. I have also seen hundreds if not thousands of images from the Wave and the slot canyons in the same area but i would still love to take a stab at it and if lucky have something for the wall.
Because so many images have been made already does not mean that what nature created it is not beautiful and very unique. I am not sure if i would ever post anything from and area like the Wave because it has been done so much but i could still have one for my own enjoyment.
It takes something new and different to be creative for me and the colors alone are so different than what can be found in the NW. Green is nice but it does get old too.

[ROL]

I wouldn't mind shooting in Yos Valley this time of year, but the
one thing that would keep me from it is that I like the lower hill country so much better
in the Spring, and you never see other photographers around there - they're all too busy
rushing to the official scenic turnouts higher up.

No, never.


Cattle Country, Mariposa County
5X7 TXP 320 (PMK Pyro) Fujinon 180mm
http://www.rangeoflightphotography.com/albums/Sierra-Foothills/Cattle%20Country%2C%20Mariposa%20County.jpg

Vernal Pond, Sierra Foothills
5X7 TXP 320 (PMK Pyro) Nikkor 300mm
http://www.rangeoflightphotography.com/albums/Sierra-Foothills/Vernal%20Pond%2C%20Sierra%20Foothills.jpg

Tule River Detail
5X7 TXP 320 (PMK Pyro) Nikkor 300mm
http://www.rangeoflightphotography.com/albums/Sierra-Foothills/Tule%20River%20Detail.jpg

[ROL]

Green is nice but it does get old too.

Bring a green filter (to add contrast to red sandstone). ;)

[Vaughn]

Developed a 4x10 neg on Wednesday that has Half Dome as a central part of the image. Taken from a place where tens of thousands of cameras have been set up (not Sentinal Bridge nor Tunnel View :rolleyes:) . Might even print it in platinum. Its my image, goddangit, and I'll print it if I want to! LOL!

[ROL]

Developed a 4x10 neg on Wednesday that has Half Dome as a central part of the image. Taken from a place where tens of thousands of cameras have been set up (not Sentinal Bridge nor Tunnel View :rolleyes:) . Might even print it in platinum. Its my image, goddangit, and I'll print it if I want to! LOL!

That's the spirit!

Ansel himself, who purposely stood in the footprints of Carleton Watkins and Timoty O'Sullivan to make images of his own, once said the only reason to do anything (artistically) was to do it better than anyone else.

[Vaughn]

That's the spirit!

Ansel himself, who purposely stood in the footprints of Carleton Watkins and Timoty O'Sullivan to make images of his own, once said the only reason to do anything (artistically) was to do it better than anyone else.

Thanks, but to hell with that -- I just want to do it better than I have done before! I'll compete with myself, but to compete with other artists is wasted energy.

sorry -- just finished my glass of Johnny Walker...

and thinking of a refill, some dinner, then off to pour carbon tissues...

and listening to this for the nth time,,,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sADv1VGOIVM&feature=related

[Jan Pedersen]

Vaughn, You really should try some Single Malt, it will make your carbon prints sing even more :)

[Erik Larsen]

ROL, Vaughn, that's the way I see it also. Everything has been done before us as far as landscape scenes go, but I haven't done it all yet and that's all I care about at this point and I shamelessly enjoy it:)
Regards
Erik

[Vaughn]

Vaughn, You really should try some Single Malt, it will make your carbon prints sing even more :)

Nope, can't afford it -- and I do terrible things to Scotch that would be an injustice to good Scotch. My favorite -- A glass with ice, pour in Kahlua, then float the Scotch on top.

I am drinking Johnny because Costco no longer carries Scoresby ($16 for 1.5 liters)

[Jan Pedersen]

Vaughn, That would be a horrible thing to do to a good Single Malt but as long as you enjoy your floating Scotch who cares.
If you ever visit the Portland area let me know and i will have a good Single Malt on hand. No Kahlua.

[Richard M. Coda]

One of those places I will never photograph... because so many others have already done it.

[Vaughn]

If you ever visit the Portland area let me know and i will have a good Single Malt on hand. No Kahlua.

And no ice...I will try to look you up the next time I am that way. I have a nephew in Portland and pass thru on my way to Spokane yearly.

I am in the process of looking for a workshop space in Hood River (actually, someone there interested in learning carbon printing is doing the looking) for this summer, so who knows?

I would love to do a carbon workshop in the Portland area...just a matter of finding people interested in a workshop who are also interested in finding the space for a workshop.

Vaughn

[Drew Wiley]

I understand Vaughn. Even though I've sold my property up there, one of
my nephews bought some nice acreage real close to Mariposa, but even he detours to the backside of the Park where it's nice n' quiet. The last time I photgraphed in the Valley was in a blizzard so hard that I parked right in the middle of the road all day long and the only other car I witnessed all day was one ranger. Nobody could get into the Valley for three days that Jan. I hacked my way up a huge ice cone piled up below El Cap Fall and chiseled off the top with my ice axe for a tripod platform. Got an edge on shot of the monolith which might not be the most spectacular shot in park history, but it was pretty nice and undoubtedly completely unique for a view camera. Mabybe not the sanest thing to do,
however. The "glissade" down hundreds of feet of slick water ice was
definitely a cheap thrill.

[Vaughn]

Drew -- was "El Cap Fall" Ribbon Fall? The only other "El Cap Fall" I know is Horsetail.

I tried to approach Ribbon Fall one Spring. Put the camera off in a dry place and tried to walk up the creek to the base of the fall. It was like walking in a hurricane with the water coming horizontally into my face. I wimped out.

[Jan Pedersen]

Vaughn, No ice.
It is hard to find a whole lot of LF film shooters in the Portland area. There are a few on this forum but most in the PPF group have gone digital. I would be interested in a Carbon Printing WS if you can find a location. Hood River or Portland.

[Dave Jeffery]

I must admit that there were indeed signs of foot traffic on the sandstone, and I did see other people there! OMG and come to think of it there is only one shot that is possible at the Wave and everyone has done it!!!

I'm so embarrassed that I had such a great day there but you are all correct that the Wave sucks. I just have to look at it the way you do.

[Leszek Vogt]

One of those places I will never photograph... because so many others have already done it.

I'm thinking that's a defeatest attitude. There are always abstracts that will reveal themselves if you take the time to look. Yes, most people look at the 'grand view' and they miss the little things. Back in 2008 I was on a raft in G. Canyon....and guess what ?....almost everyone in harmony took the 'norm' photos. Indeed, and this was a photo-oriented 8 day trip. Draw your own conclusions.

Les

[Vaughn]

Vaughn, No ice.
It is hard to find a whole lot of LF film shooters in the Portland area. There are a few on this forum but most in the PPF group have gone digital. I would be interested in a Carbon Printing WS if you can find a location. Hood River or Portland.

I'll let you know how it goes. And it seems most folks want to use digitally enlarged inkjet negatives...but it is still hard to beat a good camera negative.

Vaughn

[ROL]

Poor OP. This thread has taken more twists and turns than The Wave itself.

Vaughn, I know you don't need encouragement from the the likes of me (Johnny, on the other hand...). Just a convenient and clumsy way of making a point. Of course ...and to the OP, you're only ever really competing with yourself (lottery aside ;)).

[Drew Wiley]

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but that Paria River area has all kinds of incredible stuff. Just wander off somewhere (with a good sense of direction and plenty of
water or course). One could hypothetically get "abstract" subject of layered rock like that
hundreds of place. Maybe not the same as walking into the "wave", but photographically
equivalent at least. One of the downsides of our culture of "secret location" photo workshops over the years is that these areas inevitably get trampled and ruine. Take
Cantaloupe Canyon for example. Only worse now that so many folks post pics on the internet with specific location and even GPS info. Taking the shot is only part of the experience. Sitting there listening to the sound of a wren and possibly the drip of water from some little crack in the rock, and the rustle of a lizard in a bit of foliage ... you know,
the Desert Solitaire things ... it makes the picture itself far more memorable. I don't know
how stock photographers can do it, always trying to bag something to sell to the herd.

[Erik Larsen]

I'm so embarrassed that I had such a great day there but you are all correct that the Wave sucks. I just have to look at it the way you do.

And that's all that really matters right?
You had great time! I'm glad you enjoyed it even if you didn't see it first:)
Regards
Erik

[Vaughn]

I must admit that there were indeed signs of foot traffic on the sandstone, and I did see other people there! OMG and come to think of it there is only one shot that is possible at the Wave and everyone has done it!!!

I'm so embarrassed that I had such a great day there but you are all correct that the Wave sucks. I just have to look at it the way you do.

LOL! Way too funny (in a funny sort of way, of course!)



Poor OP. This thread has taken more twists and turns than The Wave itself.

Which should happen to threads once the original question has been completely discussed in the first 5 replies!

Vaughn

[Dave Jeffery]

One could hypothetically get "abstract" subject of layered rock like that
.

Have you been to the Wave?, and if so did you scout the whole area? I'll admit I over reacted but in retrospect I have to question whether you have even been there, and if so I would like to find out how much area of that you covered.

[Dave Jeffery]

"One could hypothetically get "abstract" subject of layered rock like that"

Actually you don't need to explain anything. It's obvious to me how much you saw of the area when you were there.

[ROL]

I must admit that there were indeed signs of foot traffic on the sandstone, and I did see other people there! OMG and come to think of it there is only one shot that is possible at the Wave and everyone has done it!!!

I'm so embarrassed that I had such a great day there but you are all correct that the Wave sucks. I just have to look at it the way you do.

I so agree with you, though there were no signs of any human activity when I was there. That is one reason that I suggested in my original post (in this thread) that if one hasn't been there, it's worth going even without camera. I also appreciate Drew's views, though I seldom read them anymore – I just don't have the time:rolleyes:. I almost never shoot around other people, and shy away from iconic sites. So much so, that when I put together my first fine art show on Yosemite, I found myself with almost no recognizable views identifying the show as Yosemite. I had to go out of my way, out of my personal comfort zone, to include some iconic landmarks in order to anchor ("sell") the show. The unwitting corollary to this, and something which never fails to amuse my observing wife, is that whenever I stop to photograph within view of anyone with a camera, literally sometimes miles, the area around me soon fills up with brainless shooters.

Personally, I don't understand groups of photographers going out and shooting together, same time, same scene, whether socially or in workshops. I just don't know how original work gets done that way. But that's me, and I respect their reasons. By way of making the point, I believe it was Cedric Wright, shooting alongside Ansel Adams at Precipice Lake in the High Sierra when he made one of his most well known negatives, Frozen Lake and Cliffs, who after clicking his own shutter, looked into Ansel's ground glass, and was stupefied by the fineness of Ansel's composition, compared to the relative banality of his own. Incidentally, Wright, whom Adams idolized because of his physical beauty and talent with the violin and women, later took his own life.

I basically did not photograph for twenty years, content to do rather than take pictures of, because it had all "already been done". I was disabused of the notion that my particular view, my unique touch and print making, wasn't worthwhile, by brief interaction with academia, who recognized a waste of "talent" as they saw it, such as it is.

I didn't see any point in contaminating this thread any further by relating my own full experience at Coyote Buttes, because I felt your earlier post closely paralleled it. But now I recount a truly memorable and worthwhile experience:

By the time I arrived, I knew very little about The Wave, and had casually seen but a few pictures of it. I left the trailhead in darkness well an hour before light. I began picking my way between ravine and butte by starlight, quietly and blessedly alone. As I headed out towards the literal unknown, I felt as though I were a very small ship bobbing haplessly among the waves of a very great sea. When defining morning light finally broke the blackness, I found myself at the foot of the fabled Buttes, the "valley" of The Wave still unseen, but beckoning me like a siren's call. The sun's rays broke across the parched land just as I arrived at The Wave itself.


Sunrise, Coyote Buttes
http://www.rangeoflightphotography.com/albums/American-Southwest/Sunrise%2C%20Coyote%20Buttes.jpg

Alone, I eagerly got to work on my own compositions, of geomorhphic incredulity previously unknown, to me. I finished up just as the voices of the second party of the day approached. I soaked up the warming morning sun and watched them bemusedly making their pix, somehow never even coming close to my own. I purposely delayed my departure from The Wave that day, to lunch with, and hike back to the cars with other Wavers. I had been mostly by myself, photographing throughout the Southwest, for over three weeks. I was so desperately lonely by that time that even though hiking through the unknown in the dark hadn't bothered me, hiking back alone over freshly trodden terrain in full daylight became unthinkable!

[Drew Wiley]

No, I certainly haven't been to 1% of the places in the Paria drainage or any of the rest of the Colorado Plateau. One could spend twenty lifetimes in that area and just begin to see it. But I have taken quite a few shots which if printed someone in this day and age would assume were taken at
Coyote Buttes or the Wave area. I've got nothin against seeing the sights.
I just don't have the time. If I'm going to drive all that distance and need to be back to work on schedule, I'm going to wander somewhere where at least I imagine I'm discovering the place. Even at a popular spot like Calf Creek Falls I was headed out before anyone else arrived, so had the
place to myself, and took an 8x10 shot of it unlike any I've seen published.

[Drew Wiley]

Incidentally, Dave ... it insults me to speak of any photograph as abstract.
I've never taken an abstract photograph, otherwise it wouldn't be a
photograph. But yes, I have indeed taken quite a few detail shots of swirly laminated sandstone before I ever heard of the Wave. I think it was when
Jack D. published his postcardy shot of the Wave that everyone just had to
go there. My congratulation to all those who might have gotten something
original. But I've sure seen a lot of carbon-copy LF shots published! Maybe
the presence of a lottery just seems too trampled. Good luck to the rest of
you!

[Dave Jeffery]

Drew,

I just can't believe that you would chime in and diss an area that you have absolutely no idea about.

You can spew all the negativity that you want but when it turns out that you are completely clueless
perhaps it's time for you to wake up.

Anyone that has been to the Wave and traveled extensively in the area knows that there are NO
similar areas in the Paria area or elsewhere in the world.

You try and project that what you do is better than what others do because "you" go to areas that you fantasize about discovering. Your
idea that you are the only one that goes to remote areas and discovers things is "cliche"

I hope this helps prevents you from attempting to talk down to others in the future. If you knew what was at the Wave you
would be embarrassed.

More illogic from the clueless.

[Dave Jeffery]

"But I have taken quite a few shots which if printed someone in this day and age would assume were taken at
Coyote Buttes or the Wave area."

But you haven't been there? Perhaps this is another fantasy of yours? Let me guess, you don't have to go to the Wave, you can just imagine it.

You could easily prove me wrong and post the pictures though.

There are a lot of people that have been to the Wave so please post "quite a few shots" that support your claim that "someone in this day and age would assume were taken at
Coyote Buttes or the Wave area."

Please prove me wrong that you have no idea what you are talking about.

[Drew Wiley]

Don't get all worked up Dave ... I'll take your word for it. I just amazes me, however, how
folks have all these "must sees" when there is just so much out there if one looks around.
But I wasn't fooling about the shots ... and no, I have zero interest in posting one. I don't
even own a digital camera for that kind of thing. Probably a lot of people would get all up
in arms if I stated there several glacial canyons in the Sierra just as spectacular as Yosemite Valley and that Ansel Adams never took a single picture of, and maybe never even saw. But you can't drive there or even take a horse. If it's ever convenient for me to
visit "The Wave" I will, but there's a very long list of places ahead of it, and frankly, from a
photographic standpoint, I don't care if a "wave" is six inches across or sixty feet.

[Drew Wiley]

Oh .. and what makes you think I was being negative? If the place is so special why do you want to see it get trampled? That's what happens. Just go to Moab and look what
thousand of trail bikers have done to certain areas. They've loved it to death, and in some
cases might have done more cumulative damage than the prospectors and bulldozers of
former days. But I shouldn't complain ... the more that photographers flock to exactly the
same spots, the nicer all the other places will remain. No different around there in the redwoods. 98% of the people (including photographers) go to 2% of the area. Fine with me. Guess all those places I personally photograph therefore don't exist.

[Leszek Vogt]

From what I've seen, the 'Wave' is a v. photogenic area and I'd love to return to the area if I could....and stay there for months.
It's not just Mon Valley or specific National Parks in Utah, the entire region is spectacular. I'd never consider comparing one area
to another...they are all special. I like Yosemite as much as Pipe Organ Natl Mon, as much as Vancouver Island, etc etc....and
all their exquisite and particular natural beauty - all great for completely different reasons-. I agree (w/Drew) that people love
some of these places so much that they are ruining them. Appx 25yrs ago I visited Mesa Verde NP in Colo. and saw what thousands
and thousands of visitors have done to a native community that was "preserved" for others to see. The exhibits have been maltreated
in phys sense and the millions and millions (over the years) of fingerprints that touched the exhibits....pretty much ruined them for
others to enjoy. Betatakin (sp) is one Navajo ruins where folks that preserve it, I mean they got enough of a clue that only limited
amount of visitors at a time are allowed.

I think we should all be conscientious about this very issue....and try to leave the place/space better than we have found it. I mean,
the thoughts of instant Polaroid film (discards) come to mind.....killing scores of moose in US and Canada. OK, enough speech from the podium :D.

Les

[Two23]

One of the things I like about living in sparsely populated South Dakota is it's easy for me to find places unkown to those living outside the area. And if South Dakota starts feeling "crowded", I go to North Dakota. While I don't necessarily shy away from popular spots, I rarely see anyone else at all. I shoot at night. In the Dakotas the odds of seeing anyone else at all at night, especially in winter, is virtually nil. Would it be possible to sneak into that "wave" place at night, take a bunch of shots with extensive flash set ups, and then sneak back out to some hidden spot to rest before hiking the rest of the way out? I routinely am out in the dark of night in the Dakotas taking shots and have never had a problem. Did the same in Iceland--went to some of the big foss at night--no one was there. Gud blessi Island! I've come to prefer taking shots at night to taking them in daytime.


Kent in SD

[Simon Byrne]

Hi all,

these are my photos. This is the only photography forum I have actually seen this debate on, as opposed to the hundreds of people on AOL or Yahoo just leaving useless comments that give no reasons for their opinion.

Anyway, I wrote a blog article on this from my website which I've pasted at the end of this post.

Drew Wiley seems to have taken particular offence to the whole thing. What I'd like to point out is this. I live in the UK and went to the SW USA for 2 weeks on holiday, spending some time in Vegas, Arizona, Utah etc. with my GF. We drove about 3000 miles in that time, and spent a lot of money to get there, hire a car, and see as much as possible. In these 2 weeks, our goal was to visit some places we loved the look of, some famous, some less famous. I took thousands of photos, of which these are just a few, and I don't even like these ones that much. When going visiting another country, where you have little idea of the exact locations, ease of seeing things, best time to visit etc. means you do what you can.

Some of you may live nearby, and may well know the area very well, I don't. It'd be like me complaining about you coming to Dorset in the UK and wanting to go to Kimmeridge or Portland, rather than shun those places because there might be another person there, and just wander off randomly into the countryside and hope you head in the right direction to find something interesting that no-one has ever seen before. When spending $2500 it makes no sense.

So please read below, and feel free to sling abuse my way or just accept some people are happy just to get to see something that they find inspiring, whether someone else has seen it before or not.

"20/02/12
So about 10 days ago I received an e-mail from someone called Alice at www.mymodernmet.com. She had seen a few photos I took in Arizona last Summer at a place called the Wave, a sandstone formation that has lines flowing round it (see it in the World landscapes gallery), and she wanted to do a small feature on the shots.

They had been on Flickr for several months by this point without attracting a whole lot of interest on there, so it was a bit surprising. Anyway, I obliged and sent her some photos and info and a few days later a very nice article appeared on the website.

Within a few days I received several e-mails from photo agencies asking to promote the images, for which I would be paid. This was pretty great obviously, but I didn't really expect much. I sent the photos to one of the agencies and thought no more of it.

Two days later the agency sent me an e-mail saying I should go and buy a copy of the Guardian. That day the photos had been published in 3 national and 1 international newspaper, with the Guardian running one of my photos as a double page centre spread. This was a complete surprise, but obviously I was ludicrously happy. There were also features on the photos with accompanying stories on the Daily Mail and Mirror websites, as well as the photo appearing on a bunch of other similar news sites such as Yahoo. It was the first time I had been paid to have a photo published, which was pretty amazing. The broadsheet features focussed on the photo, whereas the tabloids unsurprisingly picked a few words out of the accompanying text I had provided to the image agency and sensationalised it massively. The stories made me sound like Capt. Scott, which is completely untrue of course.

Over the following few days the photos/story have spread, so now if you type "simon byrne the wave" or something similar into google there are 6 pages worth of sites featuring them.

This is great for publicity, but surprisingly, or maybe unsurprisingly, some idiots have internet access.

Some people are going to like the shots, some people aren't. No problem. What I didn't expect is that several people took issue with the tabloid stories, and with it, me. One idiot even decided to go to the trouble of hunting me down so he could send me a message and tell me I was shit. Great, thanks. Good use of time there. The interesting thing is that not a single piece of any of the criticism was constructive, which makes it useless really.

The strange thing is that I don't even think the photos are that great. They're nice enough, but I plan to go back in the future and return with much better shots. I didn't promote them anywhere, didn't shop them around, and won't do. I just sent them to an agency who did it all off their own back.

For anyone who reads the story, please understand the following:

1. The Wave is in the Arizona desert, and there is no path there. You just have to walk across the rock/sand/bush with some guidelines provided by the BLM rangers
2. It's about 3 miles there and back, 6 miles round trip. It takes a while due to the heat, but is by no means a great feat of exploration on my part
3. Visitors are limited to 20 a day, to preserve the Wave. This is great in my eyes, as it gives those who do make the effort to get a permit a chance to enjoy it in its prime
4. The location is not that secret. Unfortunately some chumps have published directions on how to get there on the internet, meaning people will go there regardless. The BLM try to keep its location off the radar, but in the internet age they're never going to succeed
5. Idiots have internet access

To those who liked the photos, thanks for your comments. To those who didn't, well, fine. If you're going to tell me your photos are way better then okay. I look forward to seeing them. "

[cowanw]

Simon welcome to LFPF.
Hope to see more of you

[Jim Graves]

Simon ... welcome ... nice photos and the notoriety must be fun.

I've enjoyed this entire thread from the start ... congratulations on getting there and getting the photos.

I'm looking forward to your future posts.

[Brian C. Miller]

Ben Horne and The Wave:
http://benhorne.wordpress.com/page/3/
http://benhorne.wordpress.com/page/4/

I liked the "Ribbons of Gold" shot of The Wave, myself.

[dperez]

Typical dishonest b.s. to make the photographer appear more special than he really is. There are only about 5 billion photos of the wave out there in the world and they pretty much all look the same.

This is true I have to admit.

-DP

[venchka]

Watch old episodes of Two & A Half Men. There is a photo of The Wave on the wall opposite Alan's bedroom door. That must make The Wave very special.
It must make me very bored.

Wayne

[NWPhotoGuy]

To increase your chances for a lottery permit, go to the Kanab BLM office lottery on Friday morning. Since they are closed on weekends, the Friday morning draw is for permits for Saturday, Sunday, and Monday. To really increase your chances, go on a Friday when Monday is a national holiday. That way the Friday lottery will also draw for Tuesday.

When I went in February, there were permits that were not used.

Good luck.

[Dave Jeffery]

for me to
visit "The Wave" I will, but there's a very long list of places ahead of it, and frankly, from a
photographic standpoint, I don't care if a "wave" is six inches across or sixty feet.

Thanks once again for sharing you fantasy about what the Wave is. You have never been there and it is not 60 feet across. At this point I could really care less about
how you continue to project your make believe world view on an international forum, but I hope in the future you can better understand how completely disconnected
with reality that you are. You are posting fabricated information about a place that you have never been to.

The next time that you are inclined to talk to others about what you know of the physical world around you just remember that this post is evidence that you are making things
up.

Drew It's OK if you live in a fantasy world, just don't post what you dream up about an area as if it is reality. Anyone that has been to the Wave knows that you are not just dishonest
but delusional.

Stop talking down to others.

[Dave Jeffery]

I just can't believe how you talk out your A$$ about a place that you have never been to.