Monorail cameras question?

[Łukasz Owsianka]

Hi,

I decided that I need a monorail 4x5 camera. I would like to buy a used premium or high end model because the prices are low and maybe I can get a bargain. Please tell me something about the range of Linhof, Sinar and Arca Swiss - with camera are entry level, standard, premium or high end models.

[Łukasz Owsianka]

or maybe 5x7...

[genotypewriter]

Perhaps like when getting in to any "larger" format for the first time, it might be a good idea to go for a camera with a bulk that you can get used to. You can easily find a well-built camera with lots of smooth, geared movements, etc. for a great price but you most likely will not bother setting it up even if you have it in your vehicle all the time.

So my advice is to go for something lightweight. Maybe even a field camera first?

As for other things, look for lensboard and back compatibility and availability.

Good luck!

[Michael Graves]

I've owned Toyo cameras as long as I've been in photography....which is much longer than I care to admit. They are sturdy and take a beating. It's easy to get accessories for them and they aren't overly heavy. Those sometimes go inexpensively.

[rdenney]

With Sinar, there is the Norma, the F, and the P, plus a few relative oddities. The Norma was the standard Sinar from before about 1970. The F and P models replaced it. The F is the "field" model that does not include geared movements, and the P is the studio model that is fully geared. Obviously, the F is far lighter than the P. Of the F's, the F2 is preferable--most of them have independent shift and swing locks (combined on the F and earliest F2) and it has geared focus on both standards instead of just the rear.

F's sell in the range of $300 or so, F2's maybe as much as twice that, and P's three or four times as much. Chrome models are older than black models, and tend to sell for less.

The F has base tilts only, and the P has both base and asymmetric axial tilts (using a curved track in the base).

Normas are probably more beautifully machined than the later models and use less plastic. Normas have axial tilts and close-fitting U-frames. They tend to be priced in the same range as the F2.

Boards, bellows, rails, and most other accessories are interchangeable across all Sinar cameras.

Of the oddities, there is the A1 (or Alpina), which is the only one that does not use the standard round monorail. These were intended as a budget model and they are usually less expensive. If you don't need the extendable rail, they are a good value. Everything else interchanges. There is also the C and the X. The C is a combination of P rear and F front, and the X is a less-precisely-made version of the P.

I own an F2, and only occasionally wish I gone the Norma route instead.

Rick "who'll let others provide a summary of Linhof and Arca models" Denney

[Łukasz Owsianka]

Perhaps like when getting in to any "larger" format for the first time, it might be a good idea to go for a camera with a bulk that you can get used to. You can easily find a well-built camera with lots of smooth, geared movements, etc. for a great price but you most likely will not bother setting it up even if you have it in your vehicle all the time.

So my advice is to go for something lightweight. Maybe even a field camera first?

As for other things, look for lensboard and back compatibility and availability.

Good luck!


I have got two old and heavy studio cameras (5x7 and 8x10). My 13x18cm field camera is an english type travel camera and has little movements. I need something lightweight with lot of movements for studio work that would fit in to a small case.

[Joseph Dickerson]

To add to Rick's excellent recap of the Sinar system. I believe all the systems you mentioned, but for sure the Sinar, will allow easy upgrading of any camera in the line to one of the higher end models.

I'd look for a Sinar F2. You can upgrade it easily to a higher model, or a larger format (5x7 or 8x10) as you require.

Used F2s are plentiful, used Normas will be considerably older by default. Most accessories and parts are interchangeable among all the Sinars. The Sinars seem to be more common than the others you mention making it more of a buyer's market.

JD

JD

[Bob Salomon]

To add to Rick's excellent recap of the Sinar system. I believe all the systems you mentioned, but for sure the Sinar, will allow easy upgrading of any camera in the line to one of the higher end models.

I'd look for a Sinar F2. You can upgrade it easily to a higher model, or a larger format (5x7 or 8x10) as you require.

Used F2s are plentiful, used Normas will be considerably older by default. Most accessories and parts are interchangeable among all the Sinars. The Sinars seem to be more common than the others you mention making it more of a buyer's market.

JD

JD

Not quite, a Norma or an Alpina won't convert to a P.

That is the difference between Sinar's philosophy and Linhof's. Sinar made a top end camera and used accessories from it to make less expensive models (C and Fs).

Linhof made each model a complete camera unto itself. So a Super Color JBL could not become a GT or GTL but the JBL (or its later versions including the current re) was a complete camera with full movements and seperate locks for each control.

[Frank Petronio]

I think highly of all the top brands -- Toyo, Cambo, Sinars, Horseman, Arca-Swiss -- and I know that some of the rare exotic brands like Fatif, Inka, and others made good cameras as well. In the USA, Sinars are very plentiful and not very expensive so you can build them as "systems" that can be extended. Cambos, Horseman, and Toyos are even greater bargains.

But the very best monorail cameras? One of the later Linhof cameras with both base and axis tilts, plus the appropriate tripod mounts. They are more expensive but have the highest quality of all. Even the base Linhof model is exceptionally well-made.

Cameras like the Arca-Swiss and Linhof Technikardan are capable monorails yet as compact and light as many field cameras.

I've had several Sinars over the years and think they are the best all-around quality for the money, the best value. In a Sinar, I would look more for condition than age, some have been used roughly and others may be mint.

With all of these, also look at the tripod head/mounting. In the case of Sinar, the Sinar Pan/Tilt head should be considered an important part of the camera. The Arcas and Linhofs also have superior quality heads that integrate with their cameras.

[Jerry Bodine]

Normas have axial tilts and close-fitting U-frames.

Sorry, Rick, but the Normas all have base tilts.

[rdenney]

Sorry, Rick, but the Normas all have base tilts.

D'oh! Yes. Typo on my part. The U-frame followers are rigid and don't provide tilt. But the Norma is not yaw-free--the tilt axis is still above the swing axis. The F and P put the tilt axis below the swing axis, making it yaw-free. Not that being yaw-free is all that important to most people.

Rick "fingers ahead of brain" Denney

[Alan Gales]

I own a Sinar P which I bought to use mostly for portraiture. It's heavy, all geared and fun to use. Oh, and did I say it's heavy?

If you plan on carrying it any distance from your vehicle I would recommend the Sinar F2 instead.

[John Kasaian]

Hi,

I decided that I need a monorail 4x5 camera. I would like to buy a used premium or high end model because the prices are low and maybe I can get a bargain. Please tell me something about the range of Linhof, Sinar and Arca Swiss - with camera are entry level, standard, premium or high end models.

What kind of pictures are you planning on taking? Will you be in a studio? Working out of the trunk of a car? Or back packing?

[Łukasz Owsianka]

What kind of pictures are you planning on taking? Will you be in a studio? Working out of the trunk of a car? Or back packing?

I will be in studio. But not in my studio - I love my Globica but camera with stand is huge... So I need something that I could put in case and carry in hands (I am traveling by train).

[Roger Thoms]

Also Rick, I have never considered my Alpina an oddity and it does have a 6" extension rail.

Roger "who is deeply hurt by Ricks Alpina comment" Thoms

[rdenney]

Also Rick, I have never considered my Alpina an oddity and it does have a 6" extension rail.

Roger "who is deeply hurt by Ricks Alpina comment" Thoms

Oddity in the sense that you don't see them often. Hey, I called the X and C models oddities, too.

But there's no denying that an Alpina would fit in a highly portable case even more easily than an F or F2. Sinar's case for it required the standards to be turned on their sides, but it's briefcase size. The case I use is the same size as smaller monorail cases and hangs the camera upside down on the rail. It holds a lot of stuff, and it's pretty easy to carry as luggage for train travel. A P would want a bigger case, probably, and it would be heavier.

Rick "whose collection mostly comprises oddities" Denney

[Corran]

I picked up my Toyo GII with extension rail, regular and bag bellows, some lens boards, and a case for $350. Watch ebay and you should find a deal pretty quickly.

[Gem Singer]

As the OP mentioned in post #14, he needs a camera that he can transport easily,and use in a studio environment.

He should be looking for a folding flat bed camera like a 4x5 Linhof Tech, Toyo A, Wista, etc. instead of a monorail.

Just be sure the camera he chooses has the movements he needs.

[Frank Petronio]

Plenty of monorails fold compactly and are easy to transport. In fact the very lightest 4x5 cameras, like the Toho and Gowland, are monorails. And the well-regarded Arca-Swiss is more than competitive with less versatile and less capable folding field cameras like the Ebony.

Even some of the traditional Sinars-Toyos-Linhofs are not that heavy or bulky. A Sinar F2 in normal configuration is only 7 lbs and only a few inches taller than a wooden folder.

[tgtaylor]

Toyo-View 45C, CX, and maybe the Arca Swiss "Discovery" model. I'm not familiar with the movements available on the Arca but the Toyo's have full movements.

Thomas

[Alan Gales]

I will be in studio. But not in my studio - I love my Globica but camera with stand is huge... So I need something that I could put in case and carry in hands (I am traveling by train).

Sinar used to make a gray hard plastic suitcase for the F series cameras. Carrying a Sinar F2 in one of these cases would work great on a train. It would also really protect your gear.

[Leszek Vogt]

Allow me to chime in....I just saw this thread. I saw a Sinar F2 on sale just few days ago for $299 .... when I was getting my lens fluid at Galzer's...that is if you are interested. PM me and I could check the size of the rail and try to address whatever questions you may have.

Les

[Darren H]

As others mention there are many possible monorails you could consider. There are many inexpensive choices, some heavier than others. A buddy got a Cambo for maybe $150 but it weighs almost 20 pounds. It can be carried by car easy but is not going on a hike.

I have an Arca-Swiss Discovery. Awesome camera. Great movements and with a few accessories packable on a hike. Very modular but pricey.

See more about it in both words and pictures on my blog linked in my signature line.

[Jim Andrada]

I bought a 5 x 7 Linhof Kardan Bi in around 1971 and rigged up a carrier that would fit a rigid pack frame - I once actually cross-country skied with it on my back and I carried it up and down a lot of hills at one time or another -not terribly light, but not all that much heavier than the Technika's of the period. Have to admit that the skiing was a bit tense as I wanted to make sure that if I fell the camera would fall on top of me and not the other way around.

These days I work closer to the car, but it isn't because the camera got heavier - more because I got heavier.

If I recall correctly the Bi was the first Linhof to offer both base and center tilt - it used to be that if you liked base tilt you went with Sinar and if you liked center tilt you went with Linhof. I think it was also the first Linhof that used light alloys.

It is a beautiful camera to work with (as is the Sinar) - very precise. In fact more precise than you really need for field work (with the possible exception of architectural photography.) I don't think they were ever as common in the US as in Europe.

[Ari]

Since travel is part of the OP's m.o., I'd suggest a Linhof Technikardan, if price is not a big factor.
It's very solid, as a monorail should be, but also folds into a space only slightly larger than that needed for an average-size folder.
Also very well-made, like all Linhofs, and lightweight.