Recommendations for cheap (probably chinese) studio flashes

[polyglot]

(copy of an APUG question (http://www.apug.org/forums/forum57/102035-recommendations-cheap-probably-chinese-studio-flashes.html) - I figured there are probably people here shooting big cheap lights)


Some of us don't live in the USA, also known as the land of crazy-cheap equipment. We can't buy AlienBees etc, the voltage is wrong (though I could get a transformer... another 5kg to lug) and the shipping cost is nasty. While I'd be happy with some good secondhand Bowens, elinchrom or whatever, the second-hand market here is still pretty inflated. That basically means my affordable options come down to the variety of $200-300-class Chinese monolights on eBay.

I plan to use these lights with decently big modifiers (1-2m softboxes) , shooting medium format and 4x5"; think f/32 kind of levels from the key light. From what I understand, that means I'm going to need on the order of 800Ws - please let me know if I'm wrong there in either direction. I'm not going to be using them professionally; sessions of an hour or so once every few weeks. Very light use though I'd want them to still be working in a decade.

Has anyone personally used any of the chinese brands? Any good or bad experiences? Have you had a chance to compare optical power levels with reputable brands? I know enough to avoid the really cheap ones with only 3 stops of power range.

I was looking in particular at the Menik LD-series lights, though they seem to be unusually small and light for their power rating, which doesn't bode well - flash capacitor technology is what it is and a certain volume is required to contain the specified energy. I suspect they're lying about power ratings and/or not using flash-rated capacitors but don't know that for sure. These advertise as using Perkin-Elmer plug-in tubes, which is a plus. Their CM-series look awesome (wireless remote control of power levels!) but they don't seem to be available yet.

The other option are the older-style huge ones, e.g. eBay 150645212726. They're big & heavy enough to contain the capacitors to fulfill the rating but of course I don't know if they're good ones; a friend has a pair that look similar to these and some of the capacitors shorted out after about 2 years (I removed the duds for him and now the flash works again but max power is down by about 1/3 stop).




... or if someone in Australia has a quality secondhand two-light 1kJ studio kit they'd like to sell for $500ish?

[Wally]

I've used the Lian-Li* 400ws and 600ws flashes that take Bowen accessories, and they've worked very well for me. They are rather brutal on the mains, demanding all the current that can be sourced to dump charge into the caps, making them recharge fast but popping breakers if all three are plugged into the same strip.

I've got one Adorama Flashpoint 2420, a chinese import 1200ws unit with it's own (incompatible with others) accessory mount. Accessories are available from third parties, so not a big deal, but incompatible with my other strobes.

It also works great and I've had no major issues but one: when I first powered up the 250W modeling light I smelled smoke for about a minute, then the 'fragrance' dissipated. I checked and there was a bit of plastic wire insulation cruft wedged between the bulb and it's socket. When I pulled the charred remains of this bit of wire insulation out, and opened the window for fresh air, all was ok.

I've used, but never owned, Normans and Dynalights, and while theese aren't their equal, they work and work well.

* sold by OECCamera on eBay

[Martin Dake]

Not sure if you know but Paul C Buff has a Australian website that sells his Alienbees.

http://www.paulcbuff.com.au/

[Jim Jones]

If Alienbees are available through Paul Buff in Australia, that would be a great choice. I've accumulated a lot of equipment, and the most expensive single item was a White Lightning Ultra 1800. It has performed flawlessly for many years while some other gear comes and goes. Studio lights, like tripods, are lifetime investments. Scrimping on either can be an expensive self-indulgence.

[polyglot]

Thanks for the replies (I got nothing from APUG!). Nice to know PCB has moved into the 220V market but the prices seem a little whacked when you consider that these are still chinese-made budget flashes with some branding. For example, the B1600 (640Ws) costs more than a genuine Bowens 500Ws monolight (lightly used) and about twice as much as a direct-import chinese equivalent 600Ws flash, which means there's no way I'm going to buy the AlienBee.

Wally: do you remember what sort of light levels (f/stop) you would get at full power from those Lian-Li lights in a softbox?

[Wally]

I was able to shoot 4x5 FP-4 at asa 80 at f:16+2/3 with the softbox _very_ close to the sitter.

[polyglot]

So about f/22... very close being what, a foot? a metre?

Ah well. Looks like the ratings are pretty optimistic, like the "effective Ws" bullshit that Buff uses.

thanks.

[Wally]

So about f/22... very close being what, a foot? a metre?

Ah well. Looks like the ratings are pretty optimistic, like the "effective Ws" bullshit that Buff uses.

thanks.

About 18" away. ie: just ourt of camera view.

[Armin Seeholzer]

shooting medium format and 4x5"; think f/32 kind of levels from the key light.

Für f32 it is good to have a 1200 Ws Elinchrom as main light then you get with almost every Softbox around f32 at 100 ISO!

Cheers Armin

[Armin Seeholzer]

2 times Sorry

[cosmicexplosion]

i bought two 600w 'mettle' flash from china, they are great as they come with battery pack for field, and ac power, think 700aud for two

one flash can also set of the other wirlessly

pretty flash hey?

Andrew

[polyglot]

Time for an update: Do not buy anything from Meking Studio on eBay, they are liars and swindlers. The flashes were DOA, I returned them, they acknowledged receipt of the items, promised replacements... but I of course received nothing.

And to add insult to injury, PayPal denied my refund claim. They "accepted an explanation from the seller" apparently, without telling me what they "explanation" is or even giving me the opportunity to provide evidence that the flashes were dead on arrival. So fuck you, PayPal. Buyer Protection isn't worth anything.

So now I'm down about $800 with nothing to show for it, and I *still* don't know where I can find affordable studio strobes in Australia. Severely pissed off at this point.

[SergeiR]

I have chineese made powerpack for shoots in Russia (so i wouldn't have to lug me Elinchroms around all the time), but i bought it via local dealer :( Its almost true 600w, battery powers single head, analogue dial for power setting, radio trigger included, bowens mount. Sync speed is ok at about 200/250. 400 is missing discharge spike. I know there are newer models now, they wanted me to do review on them, but i was in States at the time of release and kinda skipped it. If you want model names i can look them up for you.

Afaik price was about 400/500USD (in local currency). About as much as Adorama was selling them recently.

[polyglot]

Sergei: I'm interested, except that now I'm angry enough to want to either buy a brand-name or buy from an Australia reseller so that I have direct legal leverage in case of a failed unit.

I've had a lot of good experience with Chinese electronics but in this one case where the goods were destroyed by the postal service (it looks like), the seller turns out to be good for nothing but hot air. And they're immune to AU laws.

[SergeiR]

I know the feeling, but then i got screwed by "Epson repair" shop in CA just three months ago.

Here is one i use:
http://rocksphoto.en.alibaba.com/product/444975731-212242848/Pixco_PF_600_Outdoor_Mobile_Rechargeable_Flash_Light.html

this is another one that was ok:
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Outdoor-Flash-Light-Nicefoto-Outdoor-Flash-FU-Series-600ws-Wholesale-and-Retail-Photographic-Outdoor-Flash/811165_549006205.html

(and yes, model code is just ... lovely :))

[John Kasaian]

Make or find one of those heliographic signal boxes like the army used to use?

[Greg Miller]

One wise person, but whose name I cannot recall, once said that it is more expensive to err on the cheap side than the too expensive side. If you go too cheap, then you end up losing your investment, plus have to purchase what you should have purchased in the first place. If you err on the high side, you just lose the difference between what you bought and what you should have bought (but you still have the utility of what you bought). I bet the PCB gear doesn't look quite as expensive as it once did. (sorry, not meant to be harsh).

Also, what are the odds the no name Chinese companies will be around when you need service? Vs. the odds that PCB will be around? For sizable investments, or long term investments, brand names have more value (but these days no business is completely safe in the long term).

[polyglot]

"Buying quality" is a fine theory and for some stuff, it works very well. Conversely, some cheap stuff is so cheap that it is worth the gamble. Though I was ripped off in this case (and am not the only one (http://mkstudio2012.blogspot.com/)), I am waaaaay ahead in the long term compared to buying all brand-name stuff. My normal approach is to buy secondhand high-quality goods, but the weight (and stupid US voltages) of flash gear makes that problematic in Australia. PCB is no better - it's still chinese stuff and I could buy two complete sets of flashes from different chinese vendors, throw one set away and come out ahead of the PCB option. The only real failure of the cheap-chinese option here is that PayPal Buyer Protection didn't work.

It gets more bizarre though, I got a message from the seller today that they have completed the repair and have sent the items back, and this is AFTER PayPal denied my claim and left negative feedback, though I'm in the process of speaking with the Financial Services Ombudsman about that. We shall see what arrives in the post or whether it's yet another hollow promise.