Wanderlust 4x5 P&S [Archive] - Page 9 - Large Format Photography Forum

letchhausen

29-May-2015, 17:19

Cool, I'm excited! The Intrepid is cool and all but it's pretty much "who cares" for me. I really like the idea of something handheld and compact. All the other options are really expensive and have a variety of issues and while I would love a longer lens the compact nature is totally worth it. I've spent the last year sorting out options for a camera I could take to say, NYC with me when I'm scurrying from gallery to museum to gallery that would give me a bigger negative than 35mm. I've explored all sorts of medium format from 6x9 folders to Mamiya and other cameras (too big and heavy or rangefinders which I hate) and of everything I've tried the Chamonix Saber is probably the closest to the ideal especially with the 135mm lens. But Hugo tells me they're done. So the Travelwide will likely be my camera to fill this function and I'll get what shots I can and forget about the rest. I'll probably see if I can hack the TW to work with a Grafmatic. There is no perfect camera but this one will obviously have a place for a lot of us. Hats off to the those poor guys who took this on.

Larry Kellogg

29-May-2015, 18:30

I agree, letchhausen. Look me up when you're in NYC and we'll go out shooting our TravelWides together. I'll be able to carry a Leica and a TravelWide, a pretty cool thing, I think.

letchhausen

29-May-2015, 21:40

Cool, thanks! That's pretty much the routine I was thinking of, throwing an 85mm on either my Nikon FE or my Pentax K1000 for those longer shots or through the fence and letting the TW take care of the rest. Unfortunately I wasn't an original backer so I'm hoping to get one if they have extras or pick one up from one of those people who may not want it by the time they get it. But I will get one! I'll ping you the next time I'm out there. Hopefully this fall....

Larry Kellogg

30-May-2015, 04:47

For street, I mainly shoot a 35mm lenses on my Leica, I guess I'm not much for longer lenses, although the 80mm on the Rollei is nice for street portraiture.

I'm interested in seeing what kind of quality I can achieve with the TravelWide in more carefully considered shots on the GorillaPod tripod, stopped down, carefully metered, and using the higher quality Super Angulon f/8 lens.

letchhausen

31-May-2015, 01:30

Most of what I shoot is 4x5 and I would say 80% is shot with my Schneider 350mm and my Fuji 450mm....only occasionally do I break out the Fuji 240mm....which is wide angle for me.....on my 35 I can see shooting 85mm and 135mm pretty exclusively. I borrowed a friends Hasselblad and his 80mm wasn't that useful to me so I rented a 120mm and that was the ticket....so yeah, I'm long lens guy....but a lot of details I can get close up to so the Travelwide will work...I just wish there were faster films. It'd be sweet to get Portra 800 in 4x5! Or Delta 3200! That'd be awesome!

Larry Kellogg

31-May-2015, 04:57

Drew Bedo

31-May-2015, 05:05

Letchenhausen:

Look into using the Travelwide with a spotting scope or telescope using "Eyepiece Projection" techniques.

Years ago I did this with an old Speed Graphic and a B&L spotter. I had to build a bracket to hold them both aligned and rig a shutter in between. It was a little fussy to use, but I got several shots of the sun rising huge behind an agricultural wind mill.

When I can get ahold of a Travelwide, I will try something like that again. Hopefully the camera will be light enough to forgo the cumbersome bracket. I have a very small Celestron and a spotting scope waiting.

Corran

31-May-2015, 07:49

Yes, the real problem is that fast films aren't available in 4x5. I shoot a lot of Delta 3200@1600 in 35mm and medium format. It's a great film, especially on the street when I'm moving and the subject is moving.

Besides, I think large format lenses are designed to be stopped down for maximum sharpness, not too far to avoid diffraction, though. I wonder what the sweet spot is on the f/8 Super Angulon, f/22 perhaps?

You can get 1600 out of Tri-X (and probably HP5, I just haven't done it) with Acufine. A long time ago I did some fooling with Tri-X and with some pre-flashing techniques was able to get an okay image rating it at 6400!

Larry Kellogg

31-May-2015, 08:02

Oren Grad

31-May-2015, 08:16

It is a pity that Ilford does not sell Delta 3200 in 4x5. Any chance it could be put on the special order?

No. The special order provides for different-size cuts of already-existing coatings. The Delta 3200 emulsion has never been offered on polyester sheet film base, only on acetate roll film base.

Corran

31-May-2015, 08:21

I agree Larry, that would certainly be a neat addition to the LF film family. Portra 800 too. But as far as alternatives go, I figured I'd mention the usage of Acufine and 320/400-class films.

Larry Kellogg

31-May-2015, 08:21

Yeah, you're right Oren, what a bummer. I wonder if there is any technical reason why it could not be done.

Anyway, this leads me back to thinking that the TravelWide would produce the best quality when stopped down on a tripod but I suppose that is true of any camera. I have a Leica for fast street work with fast film, it just does not seem like I would like the TravelWide for that.

koh303

31-May-2015, 08:24

True, I know you can, but I would rather use a faster film in those circumstances for better results. It is a pity that Ilford does not sell Delta 3200 in 4x5. Any chance it could be put on the special order?

Delta 3200 is not really 3200 speed film. The actual film speed is closer to 1000. You can shoot Trix as you would have shot Delta 3200 and develop it the same way and get the same awful results you would have, that might have been useful incase some super important event was captured on those photos and nowhere else, say like the hindenburg explosion.

Larry Kellogg

31-May-2015, 08:27

I know Delta 3200 is not really 3200, it is more like 1200. The results are not awful, I've gotten excellent shots using it. Of course, it depends on what you're comparing it to. I'm happy to have a fast film for use in shooting in dimly lit nightclubs.

Corran

31-May-2015, 08:37

The film speed is 1000-1200 but really low contrast. It's designed to be pushed (increase in contrast). Though in dimly-lit bars or streets often there is already a lot of contrast (light sources vs. shadows) so YMMV with regard to situation.

I always liked T-Max 3200 more than Delta but that's gone anyway, and wasn't available in larger film, even 120.

"Awful" results come from the photographer. While the film may be grainy, it's only limited by one's usage, IMO. Just being less grainy does not automatically mean better.

This is Tri-X pushed to 2500 IIRC. Banding is from my old scanner, not on the negative. I need to rescan this one sometime, if I can find it. Shot hand-held with an Aero Ektar wide-open:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ab9w4CfWn_Y/TrTgz3eCwAI/AAAAAAAAAI4/r8ss0M-H3FQ/s640/0126.jpg

Oren Grad

31-May-2015, 08:46

I wonder if there is any technical reason why it could not be done.

We don't know. Simon Galley canvassed APUG for interest in Delta 3200 sheet film back in 2007, the response was lukewarm, and nothing ever came of it. I'd guess the major problem is just that at current sales volumes for sheet film, it's unlikely that the R&D effort needed to tweak the emulsion for the different base would be paid back in sufficiently increased sales, especially taking into account that at least some Delta 3200 sales would likely come at the expense of HP5 Plus.

But I think it's been quite a while since this was last discussed. Perhaps it would be worth a query to Simon over at APUG to see whether thinking on this has changed at all.

Larry Kellogg

31-May-2015, 08:59

Thanks for that info, Oren, perhaps it is worth bringing up again. I'm surprised that the handholders wouldn't have been excited about getting a faster film. Perhaps the backers of the TravelWide could see a need for such a film.

Ben Syverson

31-May-2015, 12:49

Aghh, I can't wait to see what you guys do with this camera! To my eye, TMAX or even HP5 looks pretty good pushed to ~1600 in 4x5… You won't have deep shadow information, but if you want punchy blacks, that's not an issue.

Even ISO 1600 is not going to let you do much night shooting (not at ƒ/6.8 anyway), but it does let you reach 1/500 at ƒ/22 on an overcast day. So it's great for zone focused street shooting, where you probably want contrast anyway.

Larry Kellogg

31-May-2015, 13:16

Hmm, that seems a little too optimistic, Ben. 1/500@f/22 at ISO 1600 is EV 18. Bright sun is EV 15.

Still, I'm all for zone focusing on the street, I do it all the time. I like f/11 when I can get it, which is 6 feet to infinity on my 35mm Lux.

Here is how Garry Winogrand worked: "Winogrand had a simple way of working. He carried two Leica M4 rangefinder cameras, 28mm and 35mm prime lenses, and lots of Tri-X film. He often underexposed the ISO 400 speed film by rating it at EI 1200 and then pushing it 1.5 stops in processing. This allowed him to use a faster shutter speed outdoors, often 1/1000 sec" from http://www.shutterbug.com/content/shows-we’ve-seen-garry-winogrand-career-revisited-and-perhaps-revised

Garry worked fast and was good about practicing ineptitude. He'd take a shot and then look at the camera as if something was wrong with it, and he'd smile. I try to work fast and be unobtrusive but people are very conscious of cameras these days.

It will be cool to shoot sheet film in the street because we'll be able to write down plus and minus times per shot for zone system work.

Oh yeah, what is going to be the close focusing distance on the 65? I guess we'll be able to adjust it with shims.

plywood

31-May-2015, 15:31

I'm off in a different direction with the TW90. It's really too expensive, at least for me, to use film in 4X5 so......I'm going to use paper as a negative. It is not as crazy as it sounds. With pre-flashed paper ISO is about 12, so about 1/10 sec @f16 in bright light. At f8 that would be 1/30 or so. I've already pretested this on my other 4X5 with the 90 f6.8 Angulon mounted and in sunny conditions I obtained reasonable density with those exposures. I suppose someday I will spring for a box of Arista 100 from Freestyle but the cheap paper will let me experiment and make mistakes on the cheap and the whole process can be carried out under safelight.

Larry Kellogg

31-May-2015, 17:06

I guess you can save some money that way but an ISO of 12 would frustrate me. I think Edward Weston's personal ISO was 12, LOL, but his shell exposures went on for hours.

You'll save electricity developing film in the dark, ha ha. Working in the dark is a learned skill.

Ben Syverson

31-May-2015, 17:11

Hmm, that seems a little too optimistic, Ben. 1/500@f/22 at ISO 1600 is EV 18. Bright sun is EV 15.

Still, I'm all for zone focusing on the street, I do it all the time. I like f/11 when I can get it, which is 6 feet to infinity on my 35mm Lux.

Usually we normalize EV to ISO 100, so that EV 15 is always bright sun… So 1/500 @ ƒ/22 is only EV 18 at ISO 100. At 1600, it's EV 14, which is admittedly a bit bright for "overcast." :) That was actually from a real meter reading, so it must have been a very bright overcast day here in Chicago! And I may have metered a bright subject (the house across the street).

In any case, we can knock it down to 1/250 and ƒ/16 to be more realistic. :)

Larry Kellogg

31-May-2015, 17:14

Yeah, that's a bit bright for an overcast day. I still want a faster film.

JChrome

31-May-2015, 17:30

Yes, the real problem is that fast films aren't available in 4x5. I shoot a lot of Delta 3200@1600 in 35mm and medium format. It's a great film, especially on the street when I'm moving and the subject is moving.

Besides, I think large format lenses are designed to be stopped down for maximum sharpness, not too far to avoid diffraction, though. I wonder what the sweet spot is on the f/8 Super Angulon, f/22 perhaps?

I proposed this earlier, but using a 6x12 back on the Travelwide would be a good option :-).

This way you can shoot your Delta 3200 and make some sweet panoramas.

Larry Kellogg

31-May-2015, 17:48

Corran

31-May-2015, 18:02

I'm planning on strapping my Horseman 612 onto the TW at some point for sure, somehow.

JChrome

31-May-2015, 18:33

That's an interesting idea, you gonna try one of those Dayi backs? I can't quite see shooting a panorama back on the street although I have shot an XPan, which is a lot of fun. That thing is so wide that you can put people in the frame without them ever knowing.

Yea, I also have a Horseman 6x12 back (fantastic build quality and operation, btw). I'm debating on either the 65mm or the 90 with the TW. Either would be fun but I like a portrait length more. Of course the critical focusing is problematic..

The Fuji GW690 is a 6x9 with a 90mm F3.5 lens rangefinder and I shot with that in the street all the time so the 6x12 wouldn't be too much of a stretch.

Larry Kellogg

31-May-2015, 19:23

Ah, the GW690, the Texas Leica! I'm kinda wondering how people are going to react on the street when I raise the TravelWide to my face. Ben, do they run the other way?

I'm excited to see what everybody produces, from photos taken with sporting scopes to panoramic backs, to paper negs, it's gonna be fun.

letchhausen

1-Jun-2015, 00:43

It would be nice to get faster film but I'll probably just underexpose overdevelop and let the grain sear my eyeballs.....

Larry Kellogg

1-Jun-2015, 03:50

LOL, I'm not against grain, but feel it depends on the subject matter for whether it is effective or not.

For a masterful use of grain see André Kertesź's book Gypsies or Julia Calfee's book Spirits and Ghosts - Journeys through Mongolia.

I brought up the question of 4x5 Delta 3200 on APUG and hope to hear something about what it would take to get it.

Larry Kellogg

1-Jun-2015, 08:15

Corran

1-Jun-2015, 08:46

200,000 sheets, wow! Oh well. I wouldn't mind trying Pan F+ in sheet film.

Larry Kellogg

1-Jun-2015, 08:52

Pretty staggering, huh? Shoot what we got while we got it.

Pan F+ in 4x5, that's not happening either. I think Stone was carrying that flag for a long time.

Andrew O'Neill

1-Jun-2015, 08:55

Hopefully I'll win the lottery this week. I'll call up Simon and pay him to make me a master roll of 3200 in 8x10 and 14x17. I'll pay for any required R&D, as well as packaging, and shipping. I'll even throw in a bonus for the staff. While they're working on that, construction of my huge, walk-in freezer will be underway. I was always told to dream big.

Corran

1-Jun-2015, 09:08

Well I don't need Pan F+ in LF, it would just be interesting. I have a shot from 6x7 on Pan F+ dev'd in Rodinal that I enlarged to 16x20 that looks as good or better than my 4x5 enlargements. Contrast is hard to control though.

Kuzano

1-Jun-2015, 11:43

Shen Hao and a couple of others make a 6X17 back that fits 4X5 camera backs. I plan to investigate that. My current solution for 6X17 is to shoot two or more frames with my Fujica G690... have them drum scanned and then stitch them in digital. I would like to switch to a one capture method, but I have never been willing to step up for the pricey coat of dedicated 4x5 equipment. I have masked my Fujica down and shot 35mm film through it for a panorama. But if any of you guys are car buffs you know there is never a "replacement for displacement".... With film, "there's no replacement for square inches"...

This camera may bring me reasonably priced one shot 6X17 panorama. Just have to figure out the lens to use with the back extension that the 6X17 back offers to get the 6X17 area covered.

Corran

1-Jun-2015, 11:52

I just did some searching and read that the Shen Hao adds somewhere around 43-47mm extension*. Therefore, one would expect to be able to use a 135mm lens, right? You wouldn't be able to focus really closely either.

*Another post claims only 38mm. So perhaps a 125mm would be a better option? You'd have to try it yourself, I suppose. On the other hand, shooting w/ the 90mm on a 6x12 back and cropping to a 1:3 ratio would be about the same thing.

JChrome

1-Jun-2015, 18:12

Shen Hao and a couple of others make a 6X17 back that fits 4X5 camera backs. I plan to investigate that. My current solution for 6X17 is to shoot two or more frames with my Fujica G690... have them drum scanned and then stitch them in digital. I would like to switch to a one capture method, but I have never been willing to step up for the pricey coat of dedicated 4x5 equipment. I have masked my Fujica down and shot 35mm film through it for a panorama. But if any of you guys are car buffs you know there is never a "replacement for displacement".... With film, "there's no replacement for square inches"...

17cm = 6.7 inches. A 6x17 back would not fit a 4x5 camera. But it would fit on a 5x7 (or larger).

My 6x12 back barely fits my 4x5. Don't get me wrong though, I'd love to shoot some 6x17 :-).

Corran

1-Jun-2015, 18:14

Extension backs are available to shoot 617 on a 4x5. That's what he's talking about.

JChrome

1-Jun-2015, 18:18

So ends the dream of a fast 4x5 film:
"Dear Larry et al,
I have already said that DELTA 3200 and PAN F + as sheet film would not be an economic proposition to even coat never mind the required work in R&D for the requisite sheet film formulations of the two emulsions. Nothing has changed.
One parent roll is 193,750 sheets of 5"x4" 'give or take'.
Very Sorry.
Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :"

So they need to sell 200K sheets of film. Why not do a kickstarter? Let's just stick with Delta 3200 to keep it simple.

I'd buy 200 sheets of Delta 3200 for sure. They'd need 1000 guys like me then. These guys sold 1500 travelwides. Of course, not everyone would get this but I think we could get there... and Ilford could put up the Kickstarter with very low risk.

Lachlan 717

1-Jun-2015, 18:59

134698

Larry Kellogg

1-Jun-2015, 19:18

I'm afraid the R&D costs could not be covered by KickStarter. It's more than just selling the film. Still, it's an interesting idea. I would also buy two hundred sheets. We just need 998 more people. ;-)

David Karp

1-Jun-2015, 20:48

998 more, plus someone to donate the cost of the R&D! :-)

StoneNYC

1-Jun-2015, 20:53

So they need to sell 200K sheets of film. Why not do a kickstarter? Let's just stick with Delta 3200 to keep it simple.

I'd buy 200 sheets of Delta 3200 for sure. They'd need 1000 guys like me then. These guys sold 1500 travelwides. Of course, not everyone would get this but I think we could get there... and Ilford could put up the Kickstarter with very low risk.

My only thought here (and the same one that Simon expressed to me about 2 years ago) is that HP5+ pushes to 3200 really beautifully (in DD-X at least) and almost better than Delta3200 in some regards, so you might have a better chance at getting people to buy into a kickstarter for PanF+.

I would totally buy 10 boxes of 4x5 and 10 boxes of 8x10 on the new base if they did that.

Larry Kellogg

1-Jun-2015, 21:54

LOL, no hijacking our Delta 3200 KickStarter for yet another slow film!

Drew Bedo

2-Jun-2015, 05:29

Maybe I have a shallow pool of film experience here . . . .I used to shoot in 8x10 with Ektachrome and a medical emulsion "Ektascan" along with Tri-X.

The only one of my favorites available now is TXP. As long as we are wishing-away this great thread for Wanderlust cameras, why not wish for what used to be among the standards of LF films?

Larry Kellogg

2-Jun-2015, 06:01

I used to shoot chromes, never 8x10, though. Nothing bring backs the moment like a chrome, it's like being there again.

I don't think you have a shallow pool of film experience, Drew. Maybe it hurts less for those of us who never shot the old standards of LF film.

Winger

2-Jun-2015, 06:16

My only thought here (and the same one that Simon expressed to me about 2 years ago) is that HP5+ pushes to 3200 really beautifully (in DD-X at least) and almost better than Delta3200 in some regards, so you might have a better chance at getting people to buy into a kickstarter for PanF+.

I would totally buy 10 boxes of 4x5 and 10 boxes of 8x10 on the new base if they did that.

Since I use HP-5+ and DD-X anyway…. If I were to shoot at 1600 or 3200, what would your recommendation for developing times be?

StoneNYC

2-Jun-2015, 08:02

Since I use HP-5+ and DD-X anyway…. If I were to shoot at 1600 or 3200, what would your recommendation for developing times be?

Well I haven't done it since I started rotary processing (JOBO tanks and beseler base) so the times I have are for inversion.

HP5+ @3200 in DD-X
1+4 dilution
20 minutes
All SLOW inversion, one full inversion should take you 10 seconds.

Standard 1 minute constant agitation/inversion, so basically 10 inversions the first minute, then 1 inversion every minute for the full 20 minutes.

That's what I have in my notes, I seem to recall thinking that it might do me some good to give it another two minutes and go to 22 minutes total, but obviously everyone shoot meters, and judges film differently. Hope that's a helpful staring point for you.

From my experience however, unlike D3200 where many say you should develop for a full stop more than the recommended time by the manufacturer (as in if you shoot 1600 you should develop for the 3200 times listed by ilford), it seems the HP5+ times are more accurate from my perspective.

If you agitate more rigorously, you'll end up with higher density in the highlights that's why I use such a slow agitation technique, and I never had any issues with streaking or drag marks etc. I used this method with the MOD54 and regular 120 reels.

Hope that helps Bethe.

Larry Kellogg

2-Jun-2015, 08:17

How do the shadows hold up when pushing HP5+? Is all the detail gone? The true film speed of HP5+ is still 400, after all.

We're just dodging the issue, namely, that there are no fast 4x5 films. It would be cool to shoot Delta 3200 handheld in the TravelWide. Unlike in most cameras where Delta 3200 is too fast during the day because shutters are topped out at 1/1000 and lenses at f/16, like on my Leica. On the TravelWide, we could shoot 1/500@f/22 or 1/500@f/32, even f/45 or f/64 with the 90mm Super Angulon.

Corran

2-Jun-2015, 08:22

The concept of pushing a 400-speed film 3 stops automatically means you'll have no shadow detail and likely high or over-the-top contrast. I don't use DD-X but I know Acufine legitimately gives a bit more real speed and therefore shadow detail at moderately higher EI ratings. Different lighting situations will also give different results. I never understood the practice of shooting 400-speed film in full daylight pushed to 1600 like I see a lot, and usually 35mm film, giving barely 2-tone negatives and really grainy. It's a style I guess, taken from Daido Moriyama somewhat, but it gives unflattering results in my opinion in a lot of situations.

StoneNYC

2-Jun-2015, 09:05

How do the shadows hold up when pushing HP5+? Is all the detail gone? The true film speed of HP5+ is still 400, after all.
Snip.....

The concept of pushing a 400-speed film 3 stops automatically means you'll have no shadow detail and likely high or over-the-top contrast. I don't use DD-X but I know Acufine legitimately gives a bit more real speed and therefore shadow detail at moderately higher EI ratings. Different lighting situations will also give different results. Snip....

Larry, Corran,

HP5+ is a lower contrast film, this means in a given scene you're getting "better" shadow detail and less highlight peaks to start with.

So this enables HP5+ to be pushed with less severe contrast as other 400 speed films. I find that I can shoot and push it to 800 and get normal shadow and normal highlight that would be 400 in other films.

This is mostly opinion except that HP5+ is lower initial contrast which is fact.

That said DD-X also has the ability to give a little more speed and not blow highlights, so it's ideal for pushing. In contrast my experience with HC-110(B) for example was not satisfactory at 3200, very little shadow info.

So try this combination and my agitation method before you jump to the conclusion that there will be no shadow info at a 3 stop push, that's far from true from my perspective.

I've had such good success I've stopped buying D3200 unless I need 6400 or above, but I prefer HP5+ at 800, that's my happy choice for this film and my interior model work.

Just sharing my perspective. YMMV

Winger

2-Jun-2015, 09:10

Corran

2-Jun-2015, 09:27

Stone, pretty much all 400-speed films are lower contrast, compared to 100-speed films. Either way, 3 stops is a long way, and one should test and experiment before doing anything "serious."

Larry Kellogg

2-Jun-2015, 09:35

I agree with Corran that the Moriyama stuff is not flattering, it's that ugly Tokyo style, I've never been that drawn to the work.

I'm much more captivated by the work Roy Decarava did with printing dark, dark skin and deep shadows. This is a great article on his photographs: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/22/magazine/a-true-picture-of-black-skin.html?_r=0# I wish I had taken Roy's classes at Hunter College, where he taught for years.
There is great power in the shadows, I don't think we should throw them away.

My understanding is that Delta 3200 is also a low contrast film which is what allows it to capture high contrast scenes, such a concerts where the musician's head is in a spotlight and his feet are in the dark.

Three stops is indeed a long way, there is no free lunch.

StoneNYC

2-Jun-2015, 10:32

Thanks Stone! Well, I'm thinking of trying it for street shooting and I don't think I'll mind losing some shadow detail, etc.. I also have a crown graphic that I could use with faster speeds (though it's a little heavy for me to handhold). I used to use the Fuji B3000 with it and could shoot a little more "on-the-fly". I do have a roll of D3200 in 120 that I can't wait to use - I used some very expired stuff before and it was fogged but still nice. I guess manufacturers sorta think most who shoot 4x5 are the film equivalent of pixel peepers and only want "perfect" results with no grain. There are many "looks" and it really bugs me when someone tries to say that something is wrong just because they wouldn't do it. But I digress…

Nothing beats Fiji B300....

It has nothing to do with not wanting less grain in images it has to do with two basic factors, one is that the majority of people are shooting on a tripod when using large-format and so the demand is not very high, and two, demand is so low that it doesn't make sense for them to put in R&D and reduce the purchase of HP5+

Remember that D3200 has a very thin base, so they would have to engineer a new base material and do testing before they could release something.

Unfortunately for us, they (Ilford) are not willing to put out a product that they themselves do not feel is high enough quality and risk ruining the reputation of the company despite other people's requests for it, so they could in theory just cut some 4x5 from existing stock, but they refuse to risk having thin sheets of film out there in the world for people to complain about.

On the converse, Rollie decided that they would take the risk and are cutting Rollie IR 400 in 4x5 from the ultra thin roll base, it's basically as thin as lith film, and easily falls out in a developing tank unless you use the JOBO 3010 or possibly dip-dunk with clips.

That being said at least it exists.

I really hope that Rollie sells enough that they can justify doing some new R&D and producing the IR film on a new thicker base so that they can provide it in 8x10. But that, like D3200 in sheet, PanF+ in sheet, Eastman Double-X in sheet, and possibly this wanderlust camera, are all pipe dreams that may never come to fruition...

Larry Kellogg

2-Jun-2015, 10:37

We're gonna get the camera, they've ordered the last part. The films are most likely pipe dreams, I agree.

It's not just about grain, it's about detail in the shadows.

Yes, the trouble is that LF shooters are seen as always using a tripod but perhaps that will change if enough people are shooting 4x5 handheld.

letchhausen

2-Jun-2015, 23:18

Winger, I'm with you! I want more grain, not less....and I love Moriyama and all the Provoke era Japanese photographers. Their stuff looks kinetic and makes everything else look like grandpa's photography....

Jim Cole

2-Jun-2015, 23:28

Wow, this thread really derailed...

Larry Kellogg

3-Jun-2015, 04:32

We gotta talk about something while we wait for the camera.

Kuzano

3-Jun-2015, 09:47

guote=======Winger, I'm with you! I want more grain, not less....and I love Moriyama and all the Provoke era Japanese photographers. Their stuff looks kinetic and makes everything else look like grandpa's photography.... ========

Imitchu... particularly on Moriyama.

Larry Kellogg

3-Jun-2015, 10:43

Grandpa had taste.

Roger Cole

5-Jun-2015, 15:48

Delta 3200 is not really 3200 speed film. The actual film speed is closer to 1000. You can shoot Trix as you would have shot Delta 3200 and develop it the same way and get the same awful results you would have, that might have been useful incase some super important event was captured on those photos and nowhere else, say like the hindenburg explosion.

The only part of this I agree with is that Delta 3200 has a true speed of about 1000. But the results are far from awful (I love 120 D3200 shot at 3200) and you certainly can't match then with Tri-X (especially TXP 4x5) or HP5+.

This is the sort of thing said by people who have never really tried the film or who consider quality results in terms only if conventional tonality and grain.

D3200 is a great film.

dodphotography

11-Jun-2015, 14:14

I waited, and waited, and waited ... So I just had Randy HolgaMODS make me a camera.

135337

135338

135339

Oren Grad

13-Jun-2015, 13:54

Latest:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wanderlust/travelwide-45-camera/comments?cursor=10156461#comment-10156460

We're ordering boxes, and the helicals are being run. We still need to do assembly and shipping, which could take some time. But I'll have an update out soon that discusses the logistics of shipping. We'll be asking for your current address and preferences on 90/65… Hang in there, everybody!

And in response to a follow-up question about delivery date:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wanderlust/travelwide-45-camera/comments?cursor=10172603#comment-10172602

...unfortunately I have no way of estimating the ship date with any certainty. We still need to do take delivery of the helicals, perform assembly, and shipping is pretty involved when you're dealing with 1500 packages. All I can say is that we'll go as quickly as we can—we're very motivated to get these cameras out there.

Tin Can

13-Jun-2015, 14:17

Hope every body has their lens. I do.

Shooting 4x5 pinhole today with B&J Press camera.

All good!

:)

Corran

13-Jun-2015, 14:34

I actually have like five 90mm lenses, and a 65mm too, so I'm set. Haven't decided if I'll use the Angulon or Super. Excited!

I just got back from hiking with my 8x10. Whew...lightweight 4x5 sounds great right now...

Larry Kellogg

13-Jun-2015, 17:21

Film bought, lenses bought, shutters exercised, Blik rangefinder bought, film holders ready, HC-110 stocked, darkroom enlargers ready, and photo paper purchased.

Traveling soon, I don't think the camera will be delivered in time. C'est la vie.

Kirk Gittings

15-Jun-2015, 11:50

Oren Grad

15-Jun-2015, 12:07

Because these days there are consequences heading the way of unfulfilled KS projects.

I think it's very important to be careful about the distinction between projects that fail because of fraud of one kind or another - which appears to be the common thread of the situations highlighted in the linked article, though the writer is careless in not making that clear - and projects that fail because of technical challenges encountered during a good-faith development effort.

Old-N-Feeble

15-Jun-2015, 12:20

http://www.citylab.com/crime/2015/06/the-ftc-finally-cracks-down-on-never-completed-kickstarters/395726/?fb_ref=Default

I've been a very patient supporter of this project and I'm thrilled they got over the big hurdle with the helicals. Because these days there are consequences heading the way of unfulfilled KS projects.

I think it's very important to be careful about the distinction between projects that fail because of fraud of one kind or another - which appears to be the common thread of the situations highlighted in the linked article, though the writer is careless in not making that clear - and projects that fail because of technical challenges encountered during a good-faith development effort.

I know nothing about this KS program... but I'll never invest in any of them because I'm a jaded cynic... as many others are. That's too bad for the folks who start KS programs with the integrity and fortitude to make it work for their 'investors'. It's sad too for those who invest their hard-earned money into the programs that do not succeed. I hope and wish the very best for both the KS programs and their investors. I won't be one of them.

I hope and expect that this one succeeds.

dodphotography

15-Jun-2015, 12:23

I'm just curious how this happened... Where the breaks were between their prototype models (and who made them) vs their final manufacturer, and why the same parties didn't make both?

vdonovan2000

15-Jun-2015, 12:45

It's a very long story, spelled out in their Kickstarter updates and comments. Briefly: they made the prototypes on a 3d printer. A mold was made based on that prototype, but the manufactured versions did not fit as expected. Ben and co. flailed through various iterations of materials, cooling time, etc trying to get what they thought was a good fit. Each iteration took time and cost money. Finally they got some expert advice that seems to have guided them to the correct material and manufacturing process.

dodphotography

15-Jun-2015, 12:49

That's the problem with Ks... That stuff needs to be nailed, essentially the downfall of crowd sourced funding where X and Y founders have little cash. Best of luck to all those who waited, I couldn't.

Tin Can

15-Jun-2015, 12:54

I have invested in 10 KS, best funding innovation going.

No regrets.

After that, my comments would be highly political, so I am silent.

Gradually leaving this play field. :)

Gadfly_1971

15-Jun-2015, 12:56

The prototype units were produced using 3D printing technology. 3D printing is great for rapid prototyping and proof-of-concept but not so good when it comes to production. The plan always was to injection mold the plastic parts (body, collar, helical, etc.) but once they began talks with the manufacturing partner some design improvements/changes were made. Also there were discrepancies between what the manufacturing partner was supposed to produce and what actually came off the line (the manufacturing partner made some design changes of their own without notifying Wanderlust).

In hindsight I'm pretty sure Ben and Justin would agree that hiring some consultants prior to manufacturing might have made things a bit easier and probably would have reduced the production time frame to something more manageable (a materials specialist would've been golden I suspect).

Corran

15-Jun-2015, 12:58

7 for me (one didn't get funded though).

All have delivered or are still on track, if late. Can't wait for my Film Ferrania reward - I'll need to find something cool to shoot with the 4 rolls of film I've got coming. They are a bit behind schedule (2 months past).

Fraudulent usage of backer money is a lot different than a failed project due to technical problems or mismanagement, as Oren mentioned. I wonder where the "line" is? Glad it's not my job to decide.

AuditorOne

15-Jun-2015, 14:47

It is very glad to hear this project will finally bear fruit. I have had all my supplies since I signed on. All I will need to do now is rummage around and find the box I stored it all in. :)

As Randy says, I am going to retire from this field and await my camera.

Thank you so much Ben and Justin for staying the course.

David Aimone

15-Jun-2015, 14:58

I am not making a judgement about Ben and Justin here, because I'm not knowledgeable enough about this kind of design and production; and I'm sure it's not a black and white kind of thing as far as the situation and the causes of delay.

But you also have to distinguish between projects that fail because of unexpected technical challenges encountered and those that fail because the developers were in much deeper over their heads then they should have been from the very start. And just like someone said here, where do you draw the line and make that judgement?

There's got to be a better way to assess the likely success or failure of a project before people commit six figures to it. I'm beginning to feel that Kickstarter is a bit too loosey-goosey in that respect... Perhaps, like Ebay has feedback after the fact, Kickstarter could have some discussion ability during the campaign, where investors could give input. In respect to the TravelWide, perhaps someone would have made a strong case for retaining a materials expert and someone to do communications. Those ideas could then have been built into the project, and even if that required more money, it would possibly boost investor confidence and help ensure success, attracting more investors.

Or, not even during the campaign, but after, Kickstarter could have some formal method of feedback and updates tied to the possibility of further investment (or not).

Anyway, I'm glad Ben and Justin can see the light at the end of the tunnel and will be successfully ending this soon...

I think it's very important to be careful about the distinction between projects that fail because of fraud of one kind or another - which appears to be the common thread of the situations highlighted in the linked article, though the writer is careless in not making that clear - and projects that fail because of technical challenges encountered during a good-faith development effort.

koh303

15-Jun-2015, 15:26

There's got to be a better way to assess the likely success or failure of a project before people commit six figures to it. I'm beginning to feel that Kickstarter is a bit too loosey-goosey in that respect... Perhaps, like Ebay has feedback after the fact, Kickstarter could have some discussion ability during the campaign, where investors could give input. In respect to the TravelWide, perhaps someone would have made a strong case for retaining a materials expert and someone to do communications. Those ideas could then have been built into the project, and even if that required more money, it would possibly boost investor confidence and help ensure success, attracting more investors.

They were only looking for a small'ish amount to get funded. That would not warrant more stringent control, a media/materials assistant/expert.
KS is what it is because of the way its set up, and in this case no one person committed six figures. I doubt if any did more then three.

HMG

15-Jun-2015, 19:32

I think less than 5% of the people on this planet would have stuck with it like these 2 have. They deserve to succeed.

David Aimone

15-Jun-2015, 20:46

I actually agree with you, even with the history of the project. I wish them success in wrapping this up and thank them for their perseverance...

I think less than 5% of the people on this planet would have stuck with it like these 2 have. They deserve to succeed.

pierre506

15-Jun-2015, 21:36

Waiting for my 65mm & 90mm Travelwides~

Steve Pitchford

16-Jun-2015, 09:08

I actually agree with you, even with the history of the project. I wish them success in wrapping this up and thank them for their perseverance...

In a Utube world where fourteen year old become multi-millionaires writing some software game or creating some robotic device to help the world, (or not), it's easy to become frustrated from lack of success. Ben and Justin are building us, (at our request) a dinosaur with modern DNA. In a world of high quality digital cameras and phones with 16X pixels that are made in the multi-millions we are very lucky to find two bright guys foolish enough to take on this project for no profit. It's a toy and we're like a bunch of guys crying in our beer. If this camera were available in Costco or Walmart nobody would buy it! Just us!

What we need to do, IMHO, is to find more ways to gain a bigger audience for large format B&W, color too I guess, so what we do doesn't go the way of the dinosauses as much else has. One way is to get more local galleries to have shows featuring large format work. I am a sponsor to one, The Art Intersection (.com) in Gilbert, AZ. Check it out on the web, they often accept the of guest artist.

Happy trails,
SteveP

Tin Can

16-Jun-2015, 09:12

In a Utube world where fourteen year old become multi-millionaires writing some software game or creating some robotic device to help the world, (or not), it's easy to become frustrated from lack of success. Ben and Justin are building us, (at our request) a dinosaur with modern DNA. In a world of high quality digital cameras and phones with 16X pixels that are made in the multi-millions we are very lucky to find two bright guys foolish enough to take on this project for no profit. It's a toy and we're like a bunch of guys crying in our beer. If this camera were available in Costco or Walmart nobody would buy it! Just us!

What we need to do, IMHO, is to find more ways to gain a bigger audience for large format B&W, color too I guess, so what we do doesn't go the way of the dinosauses as much else has. One way is to get more local galleries to have shows featuring large format work. I am a sponsor to one, The Art Intersection (.com) in Gilbert, AZ. Check it out on the web, they often accept the of guest artist.

Happy trails,
SteveP

+1

plywood

16-Jun-2015, 12:55

I have invested in 10 KS, best funding innovation going.

No regrets.

After that, my comments would be highly political, so I am silent.

Gradually leaving this play field. :)

KS seems to be safest with some big players like Lomography, essentially letting them know beforehand how many units of a new product to contract for and as a bonus they get to charge the customers weeks before the item is even made. It lets them introduce a new product with little risk that they will be stuck with unsold inventory.

For little guys who just have a good idea and want to share it, like Ben and Justin, lack of experience with the real world manufacturing of only seemingly simple products has proven to be a minefield. Kudos to both of these lads for sticking this out, especially at a real drain on their their personal finances.

Drew Bedo

20-Jun-2015, 19:16

Larry Kellogg

20-Jun-2015, 21:27

Drew,
Ben said that there might be a few cameras available from the first run of parts. Be sure to sign up for the newsletter on their website to find out.

I have no idea if and when they're going to do another run.

plywood

20-Jun-2015, 22:25

When the KS production run is complete and the cameras distributed to the prepaid buyers . . .will cameras be available at retail?

Having missed the KS funded run, will I be able to order a camera from WanderLust?

I'm sure they would like to do a second production run after all backer and pre-order sales from April/2014 are shipped. I asked Ben how many cameras have to be run to get a reasonable cost per unit and he said a minimum of 500 units. I would be surprised if he would order a second batch without firm preorders with at least a 50% deposit on each customer order. Remember these cameras are $150 each, not the $100 each paid by Kickstarter backers.

Drew Bedo

21-Jun-2015, 05:45

Sure . . .a Pre-order and deposit at a "retail" price. I was just interested to know if that was in the works, but thinking it through , its probably still too early for them to plan for that.

I thought I had signed up for the newsletter. I'll have to try that again.

Jim Cole

21-Jun-2015, 15:35

I thought I had signed up for the newsletter. I'll have to try that again.

You probably are signed up, but the Wanderlust team has sent out no official communications since March 23rd.

They can build cameras better than they can communicate.

Kuzano

25-Jun-2015, 00:10

One alternative could be that they communicate like crazy, with daily updates and can never get a camera built.... but I think we will get our camera's. Frankly I don't need the updates, but I want the camera's I backed. Just not willing to whine about it while I have so much other equipment to use.
Frankly, I consider 110 pages of posts just on this site alone as TMI.:cool:

Drew Bedo

25-Jun-2015, 05:52

In any case; I'd like to buy a camera. I was too timid to be an initial backer and wasn't paying attention when the larger pre-order was available. All my fault.

I think its great how patient, understanding and supportive this forum is to this effort.

Kuzano

25-Jun-2015, 14:56

My apologies to the fellows. I did not mean to imply that they could not get a camera built. In reviewing my comment, it was intended as a buffer to the previous post.

I meant that we could be receiving tons of feedback (which based on the 210 pages of just this forum) thereby leaving the creators less time to get the camera's done. Me, I'd much rather have the camera's done.

I fully trust that most people support the project, as well as trust that the fellows in charge are doing their best. Based on the feedback I have seen... no contact is better than worthless contact. I say that because almost every time there is a glitch that delays the program, we get reports in a very timely manner. I'm pretty laid back on all this because the $200 I am in for was nothing more than a gamble when I laid it down. I've left more than that on the tables in Vegas or Reno in just a few hours.

I say, If you can't afford the risk... don't walk into the casino.

Also, I have a life outside of the receipt of two Travelwides. I have no problem staying busy. I've been in photography long enough to remember when we used to wait 2-3 years for the next model of a new SLR from the main manufacturers in the industry.

I think this project has flown well, and I am only interested in reports that either hinder the project, or advance the project. Nothing in between is of any value to me.

They'll ship when they have all the pieces in their possession and they have checked our addresses. I don't care if I hear anything more until they check with me on where to send the two camera's.

Take a break from the whining... there are cool streams out there and fish to catch. Plenty of other stuff to do as well.

And fella's, thanks for taking this on. Looking forward to using the new Travelwides.......or, ??????????

Jim Cole

25-Jun-2015, 22:56

Take a break from the whining... there are cool streams out there and fish to catch. Plenty of other stuff to do as well.

Who's whining?

AuditorOne

26-Jun-2015, 20:41

Although my initial participation in the individual Kickstarter programs were separate in time, it looks as if I will be getting my Travelwide, my Intrepid and my New55 film all very close to each other. Kind of neat. :)

Roger Thoms

28-Jun-2015, 14:20

Looks like the final helicals have been run and just have to be delivered. Shouldn't be long now.

Roger

Tin Can

28-Jun-2015, 14:23

I have been looking into flocking myself and found telescope flocking to be a choice for me for a box camera.

I plan to attend the party and pickup!

Fred L

28-Jun-2015, 14:26

First New55 and now Wanderlust ! It's a good time to be a large format photographer :)

Ben Syverson

28-Jun-2015, 14:47

I have been looking into flocking myself and found telescope flocking to be a choice for me for a box camera.

I plan to attend the party and pickup!
Randy, check out National Velour. They're extremely responsive, and they have a digital cutting process with no setup fees. Plus, "National Velour" is just a fantastic name. It sounds like a magazine for vintage kitsch enthusiasts.

Chauncey Walden

28-Jun-2015, 14:51

Whoopee! And for ye of little faith, as Brother Dave Gardner (for those of us old enough to remember) once said " Let those who don't want any have memories of not getting none" (or words to that effect.)

plywood

28-Jun-2015, 15:02

Too far away to attend the party, so I'll just wait for the package to arrive. Should only be another two months or so from the information in this last update.

Tin Can

28-Jun-2015, 15:20

Randy, check out National Velour. They're extremely responsive, and they have a digital cutting process with no setup fees. Plus, "National Velour" is just a fantastic name. It sounds like a magazine for vintage kitsch enthusiasts.

Thanks Ben and they are members of the 'American Flock Association'!

I look forward to meeting you and the team, far more than obtaining the camera itself.

People are always more important than objects.

:)

Corran

28-Jun-2015, 15:30

Thanks Ben for the fantastic addition of the flocking!!! What a great couple of guys.

I've decided to use an SA 90/8 instead of the Angulon so this is a pretty important improvement!

Wish I could come to the party.

pierre506

28-Jun-2015, 16:27

Got the good news from Kickstater in my mailbox~

Winger

28-Jun-2015, 17:30

I wish I was close enough to pick mine up and go to the party, but the mail will have to do. Cue the Pointer Sisters - I'm so excited… :D

Brian Puccio

28-Jun-2015, 18:40

I wish I was close enough to pick mine up and go to the party, but the mail will have to do. Cue the Pointer Sisters - I'm so excited… :D

I'm too far too.

But if any if either member of the Wanderlust duo (?) are ever in NY, drop me a line, the beers are on me!

Andrew O'Neill

28-Jun-2015, 19:11

Just read the update. Great news!

Larry Kellogg

28-Jun-2015, 19:37

Thanks Ben and they are members of the 'American Flock Association'!

I look forward to meeting you and the team, far more than obtaining the camera itself.

People are always more important than objects.

:)

.+1 on people being more important than objects. I want to book a trip to Chicago but I've been traveling this past week so it's probably not going to happen.

I'm trying to figure out if I should flock the inside of my Durst 138 adaptor box. Seem cheap enough to try. National Velour reminds me of that horse story, National Velvet, LOL.

Drew Bedo

29-Jun-2015, 15:03

Ok . . .now I am signed up for the news letter. Not sure how to contact them to try and commit to buying a camera.

Andrew O'Neill

29-Jun-2015, 16:02

PM Ben here and ask him.

JoeBenjamin

3-Jul-2015, 13:44

Ooo I just received my mailing address confirmation email!

http://i.imgur.com/6Covp66.png

Chauncey Walden

3-Jul-2015, 14:26

I would certainly like to thank Ben and company for sticking with it and overcoming all the trials and tribulations to bring their project to a successful conclusion and creating a thousand+ happy backers!

Kuzano

3-Jul-2015, 15:08

Just posted my new address and particulars on camera configuration back to KickStarter.

Want to say Thanks at this point. Looking forward to delivery.

Have a brand new Kodak Ready Load Professional film back and 159 ready and quickload envelopes in the freezer. Varied color and B/W. Now to buy a lens/shutter and put gas in the car. Will head to the Oregon coast, when everything is loaded. Then to the Eastern part of Oregon afterward.

David Karp

3-Jul-2015, 15:50

This is great news. Coincidentally, I pulled my 90mm Raptar out of the drawer while straightening out the drawer contents and wondered when the letter was going out. That lens has patiently been waiting for its new mount! Now to locate a 65mm! I hope the camera is a big success and they get enough new orders for additional runs.

Steve Pitchford

3-Jul-2015, 16:17

Randy, check out National Velour. They're extremely responsive, and they have a digital cutting process with no setup fees. Plus, "National Velour" is just a fantastic name. It sounds like a magazine for vintage kitsch enthusiasts.

Hello Ben,
Just received my inquiry email today. Wohoo!!! I see light at the end of the helical. Now my investing buddies can no longer chide me for involving them. Can't wait until we all go out for a shoot. It will be awesome.

One thing I did notice, that was missing from the email with the camera selection process, is there is no mention of the PinWide pinhole attachment. I've waited thru two worldwide pinhole days for it and hoping it will ship the with cameras per the original agreement.

Ben, I want to thank you both for not quitting on this project. It will serve as your lighthouse for your future successes. My brother and I once undertook a similar plastic project -an insulated canteen and Cold Can Carrier. We spent over $25,000 of our money, but failed when we couldn't raise more funds for the 1st production run and obtain distribution outlets. Of course back then there was no "Kickstarter", only the Pratt book of venture capital resources, no WWW, no I phones, just Microsoft workstation 3.0 and floppy disk.

Happy, happy trails,
SteveP

rdenney

3-Jul-2015, 18:22

I also received my email to confirm my choice and address, and have completed the survey for myself.

But my wife, who is also a backer (this is how I was able to add an additional camera without giving up my coveted first-25 status), did not receive an email. In fact, she has not received a Kickstarter email since July, 2014. I was able to log into her Kickstarter using her Facebook login and respond to the survey, but she is still getting no emails from Kickstarter, and attempting to check all that required entering a password that does not seem to work (assuming we are remembering it correctly, which is unlikely). And, no, she has not changed her email address. There is no way I can find to communicate with Kickstarter to correct the issue. So, Ben, there are two backers at my address, and neither the address nor the original choice has changed.

Rick "whose wife will no longer be following any Kickstarter projects, I guess" Denney

munz6869

3-Jul-2015, 19:53

Three years from idea to product sounds about right to me, in retrospect, and whilst admitting a level of grumpiness periodically at the enthusiastic initial timelines... I hope you all have a splendid party and I have enormous respect for you both sticking with this to the end - it must have been a real emotional drain.

I can hardly wait!!

Marc!

Tracy Storer

3-Jul-2015, 20:53

"we need your address to ship your camera" How great was it to read that ? Congrats Ben and Justin ! You guys should be very proud of yourselves, I am proud of you !
Looking forward to making images with the new Baby.

Larry Kellogg

3-Jul-2015, 22:15

Ben Syverson

3-Jul-2015, 22:17

Yeah, how exciting, I agree! I'm not upset about the delays, I'm ecstatic that they made it to the end. I can't wait to have two of these cameras to shoot and it is light enough to carry along with my Leica.
Thanks, Larry! The Travelwide is lighter than the Leica, so really, the question you'll have to face is whether or not you want to lug around a heavy M-mount camera along with your 4x5. :)

Larry Kellogg

4-Jul-2015, 00:52

Thanks, Larry! The Travelwide is lighter than the Leica, so really, the question you'll have to face is whether or not you want to lug around a heavy M-mount camera along with your 4x5. :)

Now that's funny! Of course, there is that pesky issue of film holders vs 35mm canisters. Hmm, I wonder if a modern, lightweight, improved Grafmatic back could be built. It would be great to have a ten or twelve sheet magazine. ;-)

Nah, forget that idea, too fiddly, I'll just stash some film holders in my wife's bag. Maybe she won't notice.

Tim Meisburger

4-Jul-2015, 02:37

Now that's funny! Of course, there is that pesky issue of film holders vs 35mm canisters. Hmm, I wonder if a modern, lightweight, improved Grafmatic back could be built. It would be great to have a ten or twelve sheet magazine. ;-)

Nah, forget that idea, too fiddly, I'll just stash some film holders in my wife's bag. Maybe she won't notice.

My Favourite scene in "Eiger Sanction". Clint and George are training and make a hard climb up a sheer desert pinnacle. When they get to the top Clint offers George a beer. George says "Are you crazy? You carried beers all the way up here?". Clint reaches into George's pack, pulls out two beers, and says "No, you did."

Larry Kellogg

4-Jul-2015, 04:08

My Favourite scene in "Eiger Sanction". Clint and George are training and make a hard climb up a sheer desert pinnacle. When they get to the top Clint offers George a beer. George says "Are you crazy? You carried beers all the way up here?". Clint reaches into George's pack, pulls out two beers, and says "No, you did."

LOL. The odds of my getting away with it are pretty slim. Ever since I made her carry a small tripod around on one of her last trips, she has resisted carrying any camera gear. Still, if I carry three holders and she carries three holders, it will be twelve shots, a big day for me in terms of LF. I shoot 35mm much faster than LF.

cdholden

4-Jul-2015, 04:43

LOL. My chances of getting away with it are pretty slim. Ever since I made her carry a small tripod around on one of her last trips, she has resisted carrying any camera gear. Still, if I carry three holders and she carries three holders, it will be twelve shots, a big day for me in terms of LF. I shoot 35mm much faster than LF.

Faster? Absolutely.
Better? I don't. My percentage of what I consider successful photos goes up using 5x7 or 8x10 goes up, compared to 35mm.

Larry Kellogg

4-Jul-2015, 05:45

Faster? Absolutely.
Better? I don't. My percentage of what I consider successful photos goes up using 5x7 or 8x10 goes up, compared to 35mm.

I just find them to be different, and suited for different purposes. I use 35mm for dynamic situations on the street, and large format for more considered compositions that tend to be static.

I shoot more 35mm than large format so more of the shots I find successful are from my 35mm work. I'm glad I haven't given up 35mm for large format as I would had missed a lot of photographs as a result.

I don't know yet where the TravelWide fits into my shooting style but I think it is for slower, more careful shooting where I use a tripod, think more about metering, and use the zone system with necessary adjustments in development time. After all, sheet film allows us to adjust the development of every shot based on the contrast of the scene. This is just not possible with 35mm, obviously.

Still, maybe you guys will show me a bunch of cool street shots taken with the TravelWide. How long can I walk around with the dark slide pulled out? If I have to pull the dark slide before shooting, the moment is probably gone.

JChrome

5-Jul-2015, 12:29

[QUOTE=Larry Kellogg;1257003

Still, maybe you guys will show me a bunch of cool street shots taken with the TravelWide. How long can I walk around with the dark slide pulled out? If I have to pull the dark slide before shooting, the moment is probably gone.[/QUOTE]

I'm really interested to know about the experience with the 90mm version. Focusing will still be important and zone focusing may be tough. If it's decent then I'd love to use it for 6x12 and 4x5 street photography. There's always this element to street that is about surprise and you just can't do that with a tripod and the critical work normally put into 4x5.

I want to add a camera strap to this guy and take him to china town!

Larry Kellogg

5-Jul-2015, 13:47

I'm really interested to know about the experience with the 90mm version. Focusing will still be important and zone focusing may be tough. If it's decent then I'd love to use it for 6x12 and 4x5 street photography. There's always this element to street that is about surprise and you just can't do that with a tripod and the critical work normally put into 4x5.

I want to add a camera strap to this guy and take him to china town!

Yeah, I think you're right, zone focusing is going to be tough, I don't see it being better than my Leica. I think using a tripod will yield the best results. I'll be using a GorillaPod plastic tripod with a ball head.

I'm very curious to see what people will do with this camera.

Brian Puccio

5-Jul-2015, 14:19

Yeah, I think you're right, zone focusing is going to be tough, I don't see it being better than my Leica. I think using a tripod will yield the best results. I'll be using a GorillaPod plastic tripod with a ball head.

I'm very curious to see what people will do with this camera.

I'm not really all to familiar with all the right terminology, but is zone focusing using an accessory rangefinder (cold shoe mount) to figure out how far your subject is and then dialing that in on the helical?

JChrome

5-Jul-2015, 14:31

I'm not really all to familiar with all the right terminology, but is zone focusing using an accessory rangefinder (cold shoe mount) to figure out how far your subject is and then dialing that in on the helical?

Zone focusing is your best guess as to what the distance to your subject will be and then putting that on the lens. I suppose the rangefinder accessory will help but I wonder how effective it will be.

Dying to have someone review it.

HMG

5-Jul-2015, 15:39

Zone focusing is your best guess as to what the distance to your subject will be and then putting that on the lens. I suppose the rangefinder accessory will help but I wonder how effective it will be.

Dying to have someone review it.

I have a mechanical rangefinder, but not sure there is much to review. They work; giving you a reasonable to exact distance measurement (depending on the sophistication of the device) that can be transferred to the lens helical. The question is exactly how exact do you need to be.

Schneider has a downloadable spreadsheet here (https://www.schneideroptics.com/info/faq/photography.htm#q5).

From what I can see, if I shoot at f8 and focus at 50ft, I'm "acceptably sharp" between 20ft and infinity. Of course "acceptably sharp" is subject to individual circumstances and opinion. I believe the chart assumes the following definition of hyperfocal distance from wikipedia: "The hyperfocal distance is the closest distance at which a lens can be focused while keeping objects at infinity acceptably sharp. When the lens is focused at this distance, all objects at distances from half of the hyperfocal distance out to infinity will be acceptably sharp."

Larry Kellogg

5-Jul-2015, 15:57

All of my Leica lenses have a focusing scale on them. For my 35mm Lux, @f/11, setting the infinity mark to f/11 will give me everything reasonably sharp from 6 feet to infinity.

Does anybody have the focusing scales for the lenses in question? They must publish them somewhere. Also, we're supposed to be receiving some brass shims to set the close distance point for the 65mm. I would want that pretty close for street work.

JChrome

5-Jul-2015, 18:35

I have a mechanical rangefinder, but not sure there is much to review. They work; giving you a reasonable to exact distance measurement (depending on the sophistication of the device) that can be transferred to the lens helical. The question is exactly how exact do you need to be.

My post was admittedly confusing. I really meant I was dying for someone to review the Travelwide and give their impressions.

Perhaps the accessory rangefinder will work great, I'm just itching to hear some opinions.

Larry Kellogg

5-Jul-2015, 22:42

We'll be getting our cameras soon, so I'm sure there will be a lot of reviews, discussion, and image sharing!

I think we could easily produce a PDF file of the focus ranges per f stop and then print them as stickers.

I'm sure the rangefinder is ok but it's a pretty slow process to transfer the distance measurement to the lens, obviously it's not coupled like a rangefinder.

One other problem is that the the aperture rings on large format lenses tend to be very loose with no click stops. I think it will be very easy to bump the aperture ring when carrying the camera. It would be a good idea to use some masking tape to hold the chosen aperture if you're going to use scale focusing on the street.

pierre506

6-Jul-2015, 04:23

Wanted to know who is the 1st backer to get the camera as an LFF member~

Winger

6-Jul-2015, 05:16

Wanted to know who is the 1st backer to get the camera as an LFF member~

I'm fairly sure that if they've been watching this thread, we'll know about it as soon as it happens. And I think they still need to put the cameras together and pack them for shipping, so it may take a little more time.

Larry, for those of us who are bad at judging distances, knowing how much wiggle room we have would be great.

plywood

6-Jul-2015, 06:15

I'm fairly sure that if they've been watching this thread, we'll know about it as soon as it happens. And I think they still need to put the cameras together and pack them for shipping, so it may take a little more time.

Larry, for those of us who are bad at judging distances, knowing how much wiggle room we have would be great.

On google type in 'bob atkins dof calculator' , it should be the first item in the search. The calculator is at the bottom of that page and you can select smaller formats if you want a smaller COC value. Using the calculator it would be easy to make up a spread sheet of DOF figures.

Larry Kellogg

6-Jul-2015, 10:25

On google type in 'bob atkins dof calculator' , it should be the first item in the search. The calculator is at the bottom of that page and you can select smaller formats if you want a smaller COC value. Using the calculator it would be easy to make up a spread sheet of DOF figures.

Thanks plywood, just have to work that table into a form that fits on a sticker.

I ran the calculator and understand the output, except I'm a little confused by the left hand column. So, you put in a distance to the subject in the top line but he also runs calculations at different distances to the subject from infinity to 3? feet in the left column. Is that what is going on?

Nicolasllasera

6-Jul-2015, 10:38

Mistake

Tin Can

6-Jul-2015, 10:40

Watch this https://youtu.be/WUMmdnJiUms

DOF and zone focus video.

sperdynamite

6-Jul-2015, 12:35

plywood

6-Jul-2015, 15:00

Thanks plywood, just have to work that table into a form that fits on a sticker.

I ran the calculator and understand the output, except I'm a little confused by the left hand column. So, you put in a distance to the subject in the top line but he also runs calculations at different distances to the subject from infinity to 3? feet in the left column. Is that what is going on?

Yeah Larry, the bottom table is just trying to be helpful, running a few apertures and distances based on your focal length and format selections that might be useful and could save some time entering a whole range of apertures and distances.

When we finally get the TW90 we'll see what distances they have marked on the focusing collar. Then with that information a person could make up a DOF chart for the 90mm Angulon or Super Angulon and then laminate it for durability.

plywood

6-Jul-2015, 15:24

Apologies if this has been answered before, but could anyone tell me what minimum focus distance would be with the Helical? I'll be using a Fuji 90/8 SW with mine. Also, as for focusing close, I have a blik RF, but I understand that this will probably be of limited use closer than 3ft. Anyone have any thoughts on that? For something really close I suppose I could use the GG, and just use the center point that is visible. Honestly, I bet my helical will be at infinity 90% of the time haha, but I'd still love to know what I can do close up. I can't freaking wait to get my TW90.

Well lets see, the helical has a total movement of 19mm and that should bring close focus of a 90mm lens to just about 20 inches with an image to object ratio of 1:4.73 with a field size of about 18X23 inches......Yeah, you might want to use the focus screen for that close although according to a DOF calculator you would have 2 inches in front and 2 inches in back of prime focus. That is with a blur circle of 1/10 of a mm, ok for enlargements of up to 8X10in., for 16X20in. enlargements cut that in half.

I've never handled or even seen a Blik but I would think they could be used for up to 3 feet if you remember to mentally correct for the difference between what the supplied open frame viewfinder sees at that distance and what the film sees.

Larry Kellogg

6-Jul-2015, 16:55

Are you sure that the 90mm Fuji SuperWide will work in the TravelWide? I think I remember some mention that the rear element on some SuperWide lenses was too big to fit into the camera. Maybe I'm thinking of the f/5.6 SW lenses.

sperdynamite

6-Jul-2015, 18:07

Ben Syverson

6-Jul-2015, 19:28

I've never handled or even seen a Blik but I would think they could be used for up to 3 feet if you remember to mentally correct for the difference between what the supplied open frame viewfinder sees at that distance and what the film sees.
I've been using the Blik instead of a viewfinder—at 1m, I focus on the eyes, and then point the rangefinder patch at the lips or chin before taking a shot. That gives the appropriate amount of headroom. It feels very similar to the SLR autofocus gesture, where you focus lock on the center of the frame and then recompose. If you practice, you can get pretty fast!

rdenney

6-Jul-2015, 20:34

If you trust DOFMaster (which I have on my iPhone), and considering their assumption of a target 8x10 print (.1mm circle of confusion for 4x5), they say that a 90mm lens will provide acceptable sharpness from six feet to infinity at f/22, when focused at 12 feet.

At .05mm circle of confusion, which is 4x5 enlarged to 16x20, by their rules, f/22 would provide acceptable sharpness from 12 feet to infinity when focused to 24 feet.

Cut those distances in about half for the 65mm version.

I cut their circles of confusion in half again (.025mm) for critical work, but then I do critical work with my Sinar.

The key for a camera like this when one wants general sharpness is to stop it well down and compose appropriately. F/22 would allow a shutter speed of 1/25 for ISO 100 film in bright sun. That can (barely) be hand-held using a 90mm lens with 4x5. ISO 400 (like HP5+) would restore some working margin. For darker conditions, one will have to compromise something--either by toting a tripod (or finding a handy wall to brace it against) or use a wider aperture. But it's still not that restrictive--at f/11, working depth of acceptable sharpness is still 10-16 feet when focused at 12 feet. The Blik and the focus scale should certainly provide that level of accuracy and precision.

I don't think my 90mm Graflex Optar WA will do that well at wider apertures than f/22 anyway. That's even the sweet spot for an f/8 Super Angulon.

I would not want to use this camera closer than three feet (or even six feet)--that's not what a camera like this is for. 90 is a bit short on 4x5 for closer portraits. I will choose to make photos that are in the sweet spot for this camera when it's in my hands, rather than be frustrated that it isn't a view camera.

Rick "who will experiment with ground glass, too" Denney

Larry Kellogg

8-Jul-2015, 01:34

I've been using the Blik instead of a viewfinder—at 1m, I focus on the eyes, and then point the rangefinder patch at the lips or chin before taking a shot. That gives the appropriate amount of headroom. It feels very similar to the SLR autofocus gesture, where you focus lock on the center of the frame and then recompose. If you practice, you can get pretty fast!

Yeah, I'm sure this will be fine, but in my case, my subjects are usually moving, and in the worst case I'm moving and the subjects are moving. That's why I was talking about zone focusing.

I don't expect the TravelWide to replace my Leica for street work. My rabble rousing to get a faster 4x5 film, like Delta 3200, led nowhere, so shutter speeds are going to be slow. I guess I'll opt for more static shots with the TravelWide. I'd like 1/500th@f/22 all the time, LOL.

Regular Rod

8-Jul-2015, 03:35

I've used this Human Rangefinder for a number of cameras with success. Tick the box if you want a hyperfocal distance chart on the card too.

https://tomchuk.com/misc/rf/

RR

sperdynamite

8-Jul-2015, 07:31

I don't expect the TravelWide to replace my Leica for street work. My rabble rousing to get a faster 4x5 film, like Delta 3200, led nowhere, so shutter speeds are going to be slow. I guess I'll opt for more static shots with the TravelWide. I'd like 1/500th@f/22 all the time, LOL.

I know people who only shoot HP5 at 1600. That's gonna be my choice if I want to try some non static subjects. I'm not going to use this as a P&S though, more like a travel 4x5 that is slower than my Nikon but SO. MUCH. FASTER. than even my Speedgraphic. Plus on the street in Brookyln I'm not totally comfortable under a dark cloth or even with just the viewing hood of a Speed. The TW90 will solve that for me. There will be a reckoning of Portra 400 sheets!!!!

Corran

8-Jul-2015, 07:36

Regarding the rangefinder stuff, one member here took action photos with his Aero Ektar by pre-focusing the lens and rangefinder to a certain distance, and then using the RF to "focus" by moving back and forth until the images aligned and then shoot. Quicker than aligning an uncoupled RF and then adjusting the lens.

The Blik RF that I bought on eBay is misaligned and I might pop it open and try calibrating it, but using the above method may be all I need for fine focusing at wider apertures.

We'll see.

mdarnton

8-Jul-2015, 09:21

The Blik RF that I bought on eBay is misaligned and I might pop it open and try calibrating it,
Mine was messed up, too. I seem to remember all the adjustments are under the foot, and that it's all a bit counter-intuitive, but eventually I did figure it out. Something like one screw loosens to allow another to adjust, then tightening down the first moves everything from where you wanted it while making a second adjustment. But it can be done. In the end I thought it was quite clever.

Andrew O'Neill

8-Jul-2015, 09:21

I'm not going to fuss about focusing concerns. Find where infinity focus is, lock it, then point and shoot.

mdarnton

8-Jul-2015, 10:00

That wouldn't EVER work for me. :-)

David Aimone

8-Jul-2015, 11:27

what's CoC?

I've used this Human Rangefinder for a number of cameras with success. Tick the box if you want a hyperfocal distance chart on the card too.

https://tomchuk.com/misc/rf/

RR

Corran

8-Jul-2015, 11:38

Circle of Confusion

(Sounds like a joke, but it's not!)

Kuzano

8-Jul-2015, 12:53

Circle of Confusion

(Sounds like a joke, but it's not!)

YOU ARE SO CORRECT. I have been operating in the Circle of Confusion for years, and it's certainly no JOKE???

Andrew O'Neill

8-Jul-2015, 17:21

The only accessory I'll have on my TW will be a neck strap.

Tim Meisburger

8-Jul-2015, 18:10

The only accessory I'll have on my TW will be a neck strap.

I'll probably paint or tape a human rangefinder on mine, and maybe a depth of field chart, although (unlike most people) I plan to use the TW primarily with the ground glass on a small tripod. I think the Angulan is sharpest around f22, and there will be limited opportunities for me to shoot that hand held. I mostly want the TW as a small and light camera I can carry on business trips when I am only using carry on luggage, rather than for street shooting. I did that Polaroid conversion a few months ago and it works fine, but it just sits in the closet.

sperdynamite

9-Jul-2015, 07:16

The only accessory I'll have on my TW will be a neck strap.

No film holders? Light meter? Viewfinder? :p

JChrome

9-Jul-2015, 07:54

No film holders? Light meter? Viewfinder? :p

I could picture no light meter, no viewfinder even... But the film holder is indispensable IMHO.

But seriously, I really wonder about the options for other types of backs on these. Two backs I would love to put on it are the Horseman 6x12 and a Grafmatic 4x5.

AuditorOne

9-Jul-2015, 07:58

I will be using a Grafmatic. If I have to I'll just use some big rubber bands to tie it on the back.

Andrew O'Neill

9-Jul-2015, 08:59

Film holders are a necessity, not an accessory.

Chauncey Walden

9-Jul-2015, 14:41

I'm planning on Grafmatics, too. If I have to get longer screws and spacers for the springs, so be it.

Tin Can

9-Jul-2015, 16:06

I plan to never use a tripod with it.

Anybody else?

mdarnton

9-Jul-2015, 17:25

It really doesn't seem like a tripod kind of thing, does it?

rdenney

9-Jul-2015, 18:02

There are lots of ways to stabilize a camera without a tripod.

Rick "who'll use those nice, flat surfaces against any available wall or tree" Denney

Andrew O'Neill

9-Jul-2015, 18:10

Nope. No tripod. Just a bipod. Me. Just like my Brownie.

sperdynamite

9-Jul-2015, 18:32

I plan to never use a tripod with it.

Anybody else?

I'm totally using a tripod with it! It's going to be great for all kinds of exposures, long and short! Really great for beach shooting I think, with a good ol' 3.0 ND.

Larry Kellogg

9-Jul-2015, 20:15

I'm only going to shoot it at f/64 so I'll get an invitation to Group f/64.

rdenney

9-Jul-2015, 21:09

I'm only going to shoot it at f/64 so I'll get an invitation to Group f/64.

I hear that the founding members are all gone.

But if you have a 90mm lens that stops down to f/64, I'm impressed.

Rick "thinking it would be an optically assisted pinhole" Denney

Tim Meisburger

9-Jul-2015, 21:50

I'm curious. Would a front-mounted 2x teleconverter (15$ on Ebay) mounted on a 90mm Angulon cover 4x5? That might be an accessory! ;)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Tele-Converter-Lens-for-Nikon-1-J1-Nikon-1-V1-/130660942637?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e6bffc32d

Andrew O'Neill

9-Jul-2015, 22:23

Okay. I lied. I'm going to put teeny weenie wheels on mine and pull it around behind me.

Larry Kellogg

10-Jul-2015, 02:21

I hear that the founding members are all gone.

But if you have a 90mm lens that stops down to f/64, I'm impressed.

Rick "thinking it would be an optically assisted pinhole" Denney

Gone but not forgotten.

The f/8 Super Angulon stops down to f/64. What's the fun of shooting this thing if we don't try out some of the smaller apertures?

I forget the f stop number for the pinhole, Ben mentioned it, but it's crazy.

Larry Kellogg

10-Jul-2015, 02:24

Okay. I lied. I'm going to put teeny weenie wheels on mine and pull it around behind me.

Here you go, you want the Morpheus dolly:

http://www.cinevate.com/store2/camera-movement/morpheus-dolly.html#sthash.3cWkCA50.dpbs

Andrew O'Neill

10-Jul-2015, 10:58

Now you're talking, Larry!

Larry Kellogg

11-Jul-2015, 04:32

It really doesn't seem like a tripod kind of thing, does it?

It's this

http://joby.com/gorillapod/slrzoom

tripod kind of thing.

Steve Pitchford

15-Jul-2015, 01:20

Hello to Ben, rdenny. Kellog, PLywood, Corran et al,

I wanted to jump into the conversation on zone focusing, depth of field, and viewfinders/rangefinders because it's directly related to using the Travelwide. Depth of Field, (DoF) might also be called Distance to Field of Focus in my case, since I recently lost my right eye to a tumor. My left eye isn't perfect, I wear glasses, so I've been thinking about some ways of improving my skills in that area . Of course I'll be doing GG focusing, but speed & ninja ability are half of what owning a travel wide is about. I know the nerve signals to my brain are not being interpreted or analyzed correctly, they're incomplete. I can improve that over time with practice.

Two things I've already been been doing are proving helpful in determining distance or DoF - When younger I belonged to a map & compass orienteering club. The first skill we learned was "pacing" knowing the average & close length of your walking step. Initially practice your pace at a heal to toe walk, over varying distances ten to fifty, feet, count your paces and use the average. You can become very accurate with practice. A second tool,which works much better for determining short distances, is provided by the construction industry- it's a world of modularity. 2,4,6,8, that's how far to Mary's gate. I've got boards up to 16ft. marked off along one edge with a dull sharpie. My wife place various objects on them and test me. The angle of viewing influences the results.

Guessing will never out perform a repeatable device like a tape measure, a rangefinder, or did someone say,"laser". So, what caused this need to know the distance and hence the DoF associated with it? The Kodak Brownie camera didn't have this problem. Well, lenses became better, camera technology advanced, film became flexible and cheaper. There was a surge in great photography and cameras. Oh, did I mention the Great War. It may have helped some photography industry companies grow large quickly. Most cameras still didn't have integrated rangefinders or light meters, (I bought a dozen or so on ebay) but companies like Konica, Rollei, Voitlander, Leica & Yashica to name a few all went into marathon mode to win the consumer dollar, but soon to be a consumer who wanted an ever cheaper, easier to use, smaller and lighter weight camera.

But before light meters and rangefinders were integrated and coupled to the camera controls they were a clunky add on. Lucky for us because we need them now. Good rangefinders are hard to find and a bit expensive. Also, most were designed to a smaller format like 35mm and may only work best within limited lens range; that is to say they weren't meant to be viewfinders also. Another design feature of camera rangefinders is they are supposed to work best in the near distances, generally from 1ft. to 20ft. sometimes 50ft, then leap to infinity. They are not meant for deer hunting! I have purchased two so far, a Walz and a BLIK. I wanted a BLIK but the Walz came along first. So now I have both. They are both split image type.

Just a run down - the Walz is Japanese old style, tall T mount to hot shoe. It has a large, easy to read dial, smooth to turn. The view window is bright. The dial reads from 3ft to 10 ft but then steps to 15, 20,30, & 50ft to infinity.
The BLIK is very stylish, low profile also mounts to hot shoe. The dial is small and spins horizontally; would be a bit difficult to operate with gloves. Viewing window is not as bright. The dial reads from 1ft. to 15ft with plenty of small increment marks, then jumps to infinity.

In other words the BLIK has more graduation marks on the short footage end and the Walz more on the longer distance end. I like them both and can't decide until I can try them out on the Travelwide. By the way, while searching ebay I found some really nice viewfinders new. Just search "zoom viewfinders" or Gaoersi. They're $104, a bit much.

After determining the correct focal distance the user can refer to a manufacture's chart for DoF or, after about 1962s markings on the lens barrel. Rollei is credited with first putting DoF marking on the Rollei 35,lens barrels,the first full frame compact 35mm. Many followed suit. The best way to control DoF with the least fuss is to use quality lenses of the appropriate focal length to subject and a correct aperture.

Finally we get to zone focusing. I call it icon focusing and some cameras also had icon aperture selection. You know the icons for focusing as a silhouette of a single person, a group of (3) persons and a mountain (or trees) for infinity, For aperture icons it's a sun, a cloud, and a window for inside shooting. Those are the only options. So right when the camera companies are making high quality rangefinder cameras with coupled light meters and fine focusing heilicoil lenses, the public wants smaller easier to use lighter weight, cheaper cameras. And that's what they got! Small and junky. That was right before SLR came on the scene bringing on the next revolution in cameras and lenses. I heard there a new kind of a camera now, called a digital, and it doesn't even use film. I don't know how that could work. I guess the times have changed again.

Happy trails,
SteveP

Larry Kellogg

15-Jul-2015, 13:48

Steve, I like all of those exercises to judge distance and think we should run a summer camp for photographers! I'm sorry to hear about your eye.

Steve Pitchford

15-Jul-2015, 22:16

koh303

16-Jul-2015, 07:04

Still no camera...?

Larry Kellogg

16-Jul-2015, 08:00

Larry,
Thanks for your sympathy, I'm getting on pretty well and I have a great prosthetic eye that looks totally real. And in the meantime I discovered there are a heck of a lot more people with only one eye than I ever imagined. Of course few of them are using that good eye to view fine art photography or bromide and silver crystals in a darkroom.

Most of all, beside scaring the crap out of me, the loss has me made more determined to go out and shoot more and to try and print some of the several hundred unprinted negatives I already have developed. I also plan to learn the app. Lightroom. With it I would be able to scan and catalog prints and neg and slides. Otherwise I can just imagine my offspring selling off my stuff, (my treasures) in a garage sale.

A last thought- since we are unsure of the focusing GG I've been checking the web for availability. I came across the Deardorf site and they have a high quality GG for just $60, plus $6.50 shipping. It has clipped corners and grid lines.

Happy trails,
SteveP

Steve,

My wife has vision in only one eye, since birth. While her depth perception has suffered, I think she is a good photographer as a result. She just sees things better than I do, flatter if you will, and it shows in her photographs. After all, we're really working in two dimensions when we photograph.

I have found some sense of closure with my work by printing a book. There is a long thread on here about my bookmaking activities which culminated in taking a class at ICP and designing and printing a book of duotones.

I would be happy to help you through that process. You'll need to learn Adobe InDesign. :-)

Thanks for the tip about the ground glass. Perhaps I'll give that a try.

rfesk

23-Jul-2015, 17:00

Just saw a note on Apug quoting Ben concerning the Wanderlust 4X5. He said that the helicals look great and it is now a matter of assembly and shipping.

I am a supporter but never get the notices for some reason. Maybe I don't know where to look.

Corran

23-Jul-2015, 17:07

From the Kickstarter comments section (not an update):

Hi guys, sorry for not updating you sooner—we got the helicals, and they look great. Now we're trying to schedule a team to do assembly.
Shipping will likely happen in large batches or possibly one lump shipment. If we need to stage them in batches, the batches will be sorted by geography and backer number, followed by preorders. In short, your place in line will be preserved as much as is logistically possible, but they'll all basically go out at the same time.
If you need to update your shipping address, you can do that via Kickstarter. Please keep it updated if you're moving in the next few weeks (a strangely high number of you are).
Hang in there! At this point, the project is 100% logistics, and luckily this is simpler than injection molded helicoid interfaces.

This was posted about 9 hours ago or 11am EST.

koh303

23-Jul-2015, 17:52

From the Kickstarter comments section (not an update):

This was posted about 9 hours ago or 11am EST.

as a comment, not an update. Why? who knows.

Corran

23-Jul-2015, 17:56

Don't really care myself. I only looked due to seeing this thread again. I'm happy to wait for the camera to show up on my doorstep :).

Gadfly_1971

23-Jul-2015, 18:10

You should be getting notices when a project you back posts an official update, if you're not receiving those, it's likely a setting in your Kickstarter account. This was a quick notice in the project comments though. You wouldn't have received a notification about that.

WayneStevenson

6-Aug-2015, 04:19

Anyone hear how assembly is coming?

plywood

6-Aug-2015, 07:27

Anyone hear how assembly is coming?
Not a peep since Ben,s comment in the main comment section. That was two weeks ago. He was trying to pull together a assembly team, now more complicated by the need to apply the flocking material. Hey, it's summer, friends are on vacation and busy so I imagine it will take awhile to assemble 1500 units. Methinks September or more likely October will be the target month for shipping rewards. (I have no basis for this assumption, the history of this project is just too full of last minute delays)

Roger Cole

7-Aug-2015, 00:58

In time for fall hiking among leaves. Works for me. (I'd likely have 35mm gear for shooting slides for projection and maybe some 4x5 from my frozen box of E100SW for the Travelwide.) :)

David Aimone

7-Aug-2015, 04:45

Being definitely among the first five backers, I'm visiting 5 national parks in the southwest the first two weeks of September. It's been well over two years waiting and lots of travel opportunities missed. It sure would be nice to have in hand for this one.... :confused:

Larry Kellogg

7-Aug-2015, 09:04

I hear you David. I got one of the $49 slots so I was a little disappointed to hear they would probably all go out in one batch, but I'm trying to remain patient.

Cool about you visiting five national parks. Which ones? I burned up all my vacation in Europe where I shot about thirty rolls of 35mm. I could not convince my wife to let me bring the 5x7. The TravelWide would have been the ticket.

plywood

7-Aug-2015, 15:15

Well I'm sure I'm in the last third of the backers, didn't get my pledge in until the 8th of April or so. Being a card carrying pessimist I,m just not expecting anything until October. They have had all the parts in hand for over a month now so by October that will have been three months. Surely that should be long enough to at least start to assemble and ship SOME cameras.

Drew Bedo

9-Aug-2015, 05:45

Wasen't there a recent post where Ben said that the plan was to assemble all the cameras and then ship them out in batches by region? I understood that shipping by how early one had become a backer was not the plan.

Larry Kellogg

9-Aug-2015, 06:57

Here is what was posted 16 days ago:

"Hi guys, sorry for not updating you sooner—we got the helicals, and they look great. Now we're trying to schedule a team to do assembly.

Shipping will likely happen in large batches or possibly one lump shipment. If we need to stage them in batches, the batches will be sorted by geography and backer number, followed by preorders. In short, your place in line will be preserved as much as is logistically possible, but they'll all basically go out at the same time.
"

AuditorOne

9-Aug-2015, 11:14

Sometimes people hear, or read, what they want to read. :)

plywood

14-Aug-2015, 20:49

Ben just posted an update. If you cannot see it here is the text;

2 Comments
6 likes

Hi everyone,

I apologize for the radio silence and delay. But I have good news! We're scheduling our Chicago pickup party for next Sunday, August 23rd from 2PM - 4PM. More details will go out to backers who selected pickup. We're also considering adding an additional pickup party one week later (August 30), so if you would like that, please let us know. And remember you can pick up your camera any time after the 23rd during business hours in downtown Chicago.
Shipping options

If anyone would like to switch to pickup (or switch back to delivery), you can still edit your choice. You can also still edit your shipping address, so please keep it up to date if you're moving this month (a few of you are).
Getting cameras in boxes

We're still selecting the most efficient and cost effective way to ship, but while we research our options, we'll get these cameras assembled and into boxes. It's not clear yet whether a single bulk shipment will be any cheaper or easier than sending them out in smaller batches.

In any case, please know we're just as anxious as you guys are to get 1500 cameras out of our studio. It's slightly cramped in there with all the parts. :)

So hang in there! The smell of corrugated cardboard is in the air! And thank you once again.

Ben

Tin Can

14-Aug-2015, 21:52

I will be at pickup party with lens, loaded holders and HEILAND FOTO-MITE!

Yikes!

I better get a cigar...

photonsoup

14-Aug-2015, 22:56

I will be at pickup party with lens, loaded holders and HEILAND FOTO-MITE!

Yikes!

I better get a cigar...

Don't forget a 405 and some instant film!

Tin Can

14-Aug-2015, 23:06

Don't forget a 405 and some instant film!

No longer a fan of Fujiroid.

I have 7 boxes of FP3000B left and when it's done, I'm done with Fuji anything. They are not the future of film.

Larry Kellogg

15-Aug-2015, 04:42

Any New Yorkers going to the partay? I was hoping someone could pick up my birthday gifts.

Brian Puccio

15-Aug-2015, 04:50

Any New Yorkers going to the partay? I was hoping someone could pick up my birthday gifts.

Hah! While you're grabbing Larry's could you grab mine too then? :)

Drew Bedo

15-Aug-2015, 05:28

Ben: I am still interested in buying a camera whenever one comes available due to cancilation or other mishap.

Untill then: congratulations to all as this project comes to fruition!

Ben Syverson

15-Aug-2015, 10:01

If anyone wants to organize a NY pickup party, I'd gladly send a few NY cameras in one package!

koh303

15-Aug-2015, 10:14

If anyone wants to organize a NY pickup party, I'd gladly send a few NY cameras in one package!

Ill happily host a Boston/NE pickup party

Ben Syverson

15-Aug-2015, 10:18

Ill happily host a Boston/NE pickup party
Oh, that would be awesome. Let's see if we can get some folks to attend!

Steve Goldstein

15-Aug-2015, 11:48

I'd be interested in a Boston pickup party if the date works.

koh303

15-Aug-2015, 12:37

Oh, that would be awesome. Let's see if we can get some folks to attend!

Can be done at our warehouse, feel free to PM me (or email me to coordinate)...
Beers on me :)

Larry Kellogg

15-Aug-2015, 13:03

I'm willing to help out for a New York pickup, how about somewhere in Manhattan? All trains run through Manhattan.

How many people in the New York area can make it?

Brian Puccio

15-Aug-2015, 13:48

I'm willing to help out for a New York pickup, how about somewhere in Manhattan? All trains run through Manhattan.

How many people in the New York area can make it?

I'm in.

thereisnocat

16-Aug-2015, 03:17

I'm in.

I would so show up at a pickup party in Manhattan (work on Times Square, live on the Jersey Shore).

HMG

16-Aug-2015, 05:31

I doubt you have enough orders for this, but I'd be willing to do Minneapolis / St. Paul.

sperdynamite

16-Aug-2015, 09:05

I live in Brooklyn. Happy to help out!

Larry Kellogg

16-Aug-2015, 17:16

So far, I think we only have four New Yorkers, not sure if It makes sense.

plywood

16-Aug-2015, 19:38

Two thousand two hundred and twenty two comments on this thread!

Uh oh, now I ruined a perfect 2222

Steve Pitchford

16-Aug-2015, 21:46

Ben,

Did you say Phoenix (Gilbert actually),AZ, the Valley of the Sun? I know there's are at least two of us. Only a day by stagecoach from Tucson.

Happy trails to all,
Steve

Larry Kellogg

17-Aug-2015, 06:09

Two thousand two hundred and twenty two comments on this thread!

Uh oh, now I ruined a perfect 2222

Hmm, I see my post as 2236.

sperdynamite

17-Aug-2015, 07:42

Brian Puccio

17-Aug-2015, 08:30

Well most likely an official KS update would bring the NYC backers out of the woodwork. I don't think they're all reading LFPF. Anybody that would host such a 'party' would need the space to do so, and would need to be able to accept a theoretically large shipment. Of course if one of the Founders could make it out to NYC, it could be cool just to have a calibration demonstration! That's probably not exactly what they have in mind though, since it could get expensive to come out here.

I think there's two conditions for a mini-launch in NY: (1) someone willing to host with room in manhattan and (2) a bunch of people who want to go.

Unless you all want to come out to my 1 bedroom in the burbs, I can't help, sorry! :)

mbisc

17-Aug-2015, 17:50

Ben,

Did you say Phoenix (Gilbert actually),AZ, the Valley of the Sun? I know there's are at least two of us. Only a day by stagecoach from Tucson.

Happy trails to all,
Steve

I'm in for a Phoenix party :)

Larry Kellogg

17-Aug-2015, 18:29

I was thinking that all New Yorkers could meet in the plaza outside of ICP at 42nd and Sixth. I guess it depends on whether we could do it when it was still light out.

Kuzano

17-Aug-2015, 21:07

Larry Kellogg

18-Aug-2015, 04:41

Ummm... the headlines.... don't know the neighborhood, but....................

"Thirteen Old Timey Photographers met shortly after dark near 42nd and sixth. 16 Antique cameras in cardboard boxes are stolen, when they are mugged. Nobody in the Starbucks at that intersection saw anything!!!"

LOL, mugged? When was the last time you were in New York? I'm not saying it doesn't happen but this is not old New York. That area is very safe and crawling with people all the time, and is next to the B-D-F-M trains.

I was thinking of the large open plaza around the entrance to ICP. I can be there during the day. I figured people might want to see whet they're getting, although the plaza is kind of lit up at night. It looks like this:

138554

Lots of photographers hang out there so it would be a good marketing opportunity for the TravelWide.

sperdynamite

18-Aug-2015, 06:23

I would say if it meant I was going to get my cam MUCH faster I would be interested. However I could see it getting complicated fast due to logistics and planning, and if it's more or less the same amount of time I'd just opt for home delivery. Best case scenario would be if one of us had a midtown photo studio where they could take a large delivery, and host people coming and going for a day or so.

Larry Kellogg

18-Aug-2015, 06:52

Yeah, I agree, a midtown studio location would be ideal. I'm sure we could have done it out of MV Labs, the black and white lab I interned for, but it is closed.

BarryS

18-Aug-2015, 07:21

I messaged Ben about doing a pickup party for DC, but the more I think about it--the more I think it just complicates things. Let's say Ben sends out a mass email announcing the date/time of the party and 11 people RSVP. Then only 7 people show up. Then it becomes a pain for the person with the cameras and the no-shows trying to arrange the remaining pick-ups.

Kuzano

18-Aug-2015, 08:45

Larry Kellogg

18-Aug-2015, 16:20

Things change, New York is a darling compared to what it used to be.

There is a Starbucks on that corner, so I thought you knew the area. Then again, there is a Starbucks on every corner.

That's not my photo, not sure of the ISO.

plywood

18-Aug-2015, 16:51

I just hope they don't wait too long to start shipping. If the pick up party is Sunday 8/23, then to be fair to those of us who cannot pick up a camera in Chicago shipping should at least start Monday 8/24. Unless or course they only had time by the 23rd to assemble enough cameras for pick-up and the rest are still in pieces. So far Ben will not commit to any time line for shipping and by now, with all the parts in hand for 6 weeks, well doesn't that seem odd to anyone. I dunno, maybe they are just flat broke and are trying to delay until they can scrape up enough funds to pay for it all.

Larry Kellogg

18-Aug-2015, 18:20

Yah! Ya got me. Living in Oregon, surrounded by forests, lakes, streams, small communities, the only thing we have close to a "mugging" here is an occasional am-indian uprising, where we circle our cars off the Interstate. I'm only a half hour off the reservation.

Only made the comments based on historic (perhaps prehistoric) precedent set by PNW and West Coast perceptions. Glad to hear NY is cleaning up their act at last. The lighing looks great... what ISO?

Just some thoughts that came up while waiting for Pony Express to deliver a couple of Old Timey Cameras.;)

You know, I'm probably face more risk in your part of the country than I do in New York. I'm not a backwoods person, so I would probably get lost in the woods, drown in the lake, or slip off a rock and get swept to my death in a fast moving stream.

Someone wrote a book about just those sort of risks that urbanites face when they go out to the wilderness. Some people literally walk backwards into the Grand Canyon while getting their pictures taken.

Roger Cole

18-Aug-2015, 22:28

sperdynamite

19-Aug-2015, 06:55

Well aren't you just a little ray of sunshine?

No it doesn't strike me as odd at all for a small operation of a few friends.

Yeah, people expect Amazon level service from two guys in Chicago who've had the gumption to design a whole new camera and sell it at a fair price on KS. We've all found the delays unfortunate but people could be a lil more supportive rather than complaining about theoretical problems they haven't encountered. Getting into a KS means you're going on a journey with the founders and you may not end up with a camera in your hands, lucky for us, we finally get our Travelwides!!!

Anybody have any tips on shooting flash with LF? I shoot weddings and I want to expose a few sheets at the reception, coming as close to the old speedgraphic press camera look as possible. I'm gonna use a Nikon speedlight, but every time I've shoot B&W with flash before I've never been able to soften the contrast. It seems like there was a totally different look outta those old flash bulbs...

Corran

19-Aug-2015, 07:04

Use bounce flash if you can. Read this recent thread - same techniques apply:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?124662-35mm-and-120-Flash-and-Shallow-DOF-Advice

sperdynamite

19-Aug-2015, 07:21

Use bounce flash if you can. Read this recent thread - same techniques apply:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?124662-35mm-and-120-Flash-and-Shallow-DOF-Advice

Yeah, I mean those techniques are more about the images looking nice in the modern way. I want my images to look like Weegee (with an absolute minimum of murder, if possible). :-)

Corran

19-Aug-2015, 08:12

Ah :) yeah flashbulbs had a much higher output than your average flashgun. Not sure about the contrast, maybe it was the (lack of) directionality?

HMG

19-Aug-2015, 08:26

Ah :) yeah flashbulbs had a much higher output than your average flashgun. Not sure about the contrast, maybe it was the (lack of) directionality?

Certainly a possibility; they have a much larger reflector. I wonder if the flashes like the Qflash or Sunpak 120 would be somewhat similar. And, of course, you have to consider the press lenses of the era.

Tim Meisburger

19-Aug-2015, 13:35

Weegee! f/8 and be there!

The Travelwide would be wonderful for Weegee-style stuff, but you need them honkin big flashbulbs.

Kevin Crisp

19-Aug-2015, 13:36

Put a Honeywell Tilt-O-Mite on one of those flash shoes and you're all set for bulbs.

Corran

19-Aug-2015, 13:41

Put a Honeywell Tilt-O-Mite on one of those flash shoes and you're all set for bulbs.

Sweet, now I'm curious.

There's a junk shop down in Tallahassee where I saw about 50 flashbulbs for like $10. Maybe they're still there...

sperdynamite

19-Aug-2015, 13:48

Haha! that thing looks so cool. Not sure I would want to rely on finding old flash bulbs. Maybe I'll look into a 120J. Though those things are HUGE.

As for the age of the lens, I shoot with a Nikon SB-22s on a Rollei 2.8E and I still get really high contrast so I don't think the lens helps that much to reduce contrast. Not sure what it was but they just seem so much softer...

letchhausen

19-Aug-2015, 13:57

Only made the comments based on historic (perhaps prehistoric) precedent set by PNW and West Coast perceptions. Glad to hear NY is cleaning up their act at last. They cleaned up their act over 20 years ago. But personally I waaaay prefer 42nd Street of 1986 to the Disneyland that it is now. Actually I prefer the city as a whole of those days of yore....

plywood

19-Aug-2015, 14:07

Yeah, people expect Amazon level service from two guys in Chicago who've had the gumption to design a whole new camera and sell it at a fair price on KS. We've all found the delays unfortunate but people could be a lil more supportive rather than complaining about theoretical problems they haven't encountered. Getting into a KS means you're going on a journey with the founders and you may not end up with a camera in your hands, lucky for us, we finally get our Travelwides!!!

Not at all. But on July 3rd in the KS main comments section Ben was asked if shipping would be delayed until after the pick party. Ben answered the same day and said 'no, there would be no delay', Those were Ben's own words so of course, since by then all the parts were on hand I figured he had a plan already as to shipping. Now in more recent comments related to the last up date he says the pick up party will happen before the rest of the cameras go out. So you see there is some confusion going on here. Because of my neighborhood I'd really like to know when it's coming because I have to be home. A package left at the door is a invitation to theft around here. As usual, throughout this long delayed project no one is asking Ben and Justin for the moon, just a little concrete information.