Arca Swiss Field 4x5 and Long Lenses?

[EOTS]

Hello,

I bought an Arca Swiss F-metric 4x5 with a 30cm rail extendible to 45cm to complement my field camera.

I want to try a longer lenses (720mm T), how would you extend the camera?
It needs 469.2mm for infinity
http://www.ebonycamera.com/articles/lenses.html


Longer bellows, the 70cm one
Which rail modification would be recommended?


Thanks,
Martin

[resummerfield]

When you say you have a “30cm rail extendible to 45cm”, I think you mean the “30cm Optical Bench telescopic” which consists of the 30cm extension bracket and two 15cm monorail units (the descriptions from the Arca catalog). If so, just purchase a 30cm monorail unit to substitute for one of the 15cm monorail units. Then you can get roughly 60cm extension, and still transport it easily.

[neil poulsen]

In addition to different lengths, used and new Arca rails also exist in two (or more?) heights. You'll want whatever length rail you find matches the heights of the two 15cm rails you currently have.

[EOTS]

Thanks for the answers!


When you say you have a “30cm rail extendible to 45cm”, I think you mean the “30cm Optical Bench telescopic” which consists of the 30cm extension bracket and two 15cm monorail units (the descriptions from the Arca catalog).

Yes! That's the one (I've added some images below).



If so, just purchase a 30cm monorail unit to substitute for one of the 15cm monorail units. Then you can get roughly 60cm extension, and still transport it easily.

Do you think that the monorail extension II could be more "plug-and-play"? Or would it be too unstable for long lenses?
http://www.arca-shop.de/en/Camera-Accessories/Optical-benches/Monorail-units/Monorail-extension-II-25-cm


In addition to different lengths, used and new Arca rails also exist in two (or more?) heights. You'll want whatever length rail you find matches the heights of the two 15cm rails you currently have.

Thanks, I'll measure the height of the rails as soon as the camera arrives!
Already planning ahead ;-)

The camera is a used 171mm F-metric 4x5.
It is still in transit.
Here are some images from the seller:
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=67207&d=1327184226
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=67209&d=1327184237

Cheers,
Martin

[Darren H]

Martin,

It looks like you have the 30cm bench and two 15cm rails from your pictures. I think the comment of just purchasing a 30cm rail is probably the better idea than the 25cm extension. A 30cm rail is probably much cheaper than the rail extension and I believe it will be easier to use with the 30cm bench. Also, you look to have the standard modern rails, so as long as you buy something modern you will be fine. I think Neil is saying the rails on the older A and B series were different sized. All the recent ones are the same. Example, my Discover uses the same rails as yours does.

I think the extension rails work better for folks like me who have the 8cm bench with their camera and/or the folding rail.

Here is how I get longer than a single 30cm rail. I have the folding rail and a plain 30cm rail. I just butt the two of them together and it works surprisingly well.

Here is a picture of it on my blog.

http://thelargeformatcamera.blogspot.com/2009/12/arca-swiss-discovery-going-long.html

Again, for you I think the plain 30cm would work better since you have the 30cm bench.

And as far as the bellows go, I think you are right about needing the long one. Here was a post Ken Lee did a few years back about using a 450c with the standard bellows. I am just not sure it has the extra few cm you would need.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=11304&highlight=discovery+bellows

You got a great camera there -good luck with it!

[resummerfield]

.....I think the comment of just purchasing a 30cm rail is probably the better idea than the 25cm extension. A 30cm rail is probably much cheaper than the rail extension and I believe it will be easier to use with the 30cm bench. Also, you look to have the standard modern rails, so as long as you buy something modern you will be fine......

I agree with Darren... the 30cm monorail unit works well for me.

I've heard that some versions of the "standard" Arca bellows can extend more than others. For example, I can focus my Nikon 450M at infinity using the standard 4x5 bellows from around 2005, but it is tight. I would not buy the longer bellows until you have a chance to try the one on your new camera.

[EOTS]

Thanks again Darren, resummerfield and Neil!

So I'll simply use that one instead of one of the 15cm rails: http://www.arca-shop.de/en/product?info=411

How do you actually change/replace it?
Do you somehow release the 15cm rail from the bracket? Then run the function carrier off the 15cm rail and then run it onto the 30cm rail? And then re-insert the rail in the bracket and lock it?

It's a shame how few videos / edutainment etc. there is on the Arca products...
The company hasn't even got a website ;-)
But user experience must be awesome so I'm full of anticipation :-D , hope there will be no issues with the customs ...
BTW: is it normal that the USPS tracking coverage ends at the US-airport?

Thanks also for the hint with the bellows ... will see if the normal bellow suffices!

Best regards,
Martin

[resummerfield]

I store and transport my Arca by running both standards onto one 15cm monorail unit, and then remove this monorail and standards assembly from the 30cm extension bracket. The 30cm extension bracket and the 30cm monorail unit stay together and go in my pack separately.

This results in 2 very compact and easily transportable units, and makes the Arca a wonderful field camera.

To set it up, just attach the extension bracket (with the 30cm monorail unit) to the tripod head, and then slide the 15cm monorail (with the 2 standards) on.

[EOTS]

I store and transport my Arca by running both standards onto one 15cm monorail unit, and then remove this monorail and standards assembly from the 30cm extension bracket. The 30cm extension bracket and the 30cm monorail unit stay together and go in my pack separately.

This results in 2 very compact and easily transportable units, and makes the Arca a wonderful field camera.

To set it up, just attach the extension bracket (with the 30cm monorail unit) to the tripod head, and then slide the 15cm monorail (with the 2 standards) on.


Wow that sounds useful!
Wasn't quite aware that both standards fit onto one rail unit,
but on second thought ... how could one infinity-focus a 58mm otherwise ;-)
Cool so you're just leaving the second 15cm at home so to say...
Saving weight and nevertheless supporting both short and long usage scenarios...

As for tripod support ... I'm using a ReallyRightStuff ball head (relatively new BH-55 with Arca-Style) and have heard there are compatibility issues ... any clues?
http://reallyrightstuff.com/ProductDesc.aspx?code=BH-55-LR&type=3&eq=&desc=BH-55-LR%3a-Full-sized-ballhead-with-LR&key=it

Thanks,
Martin

[Darren H]

Wow that sounds useful!
Wasn't quite aware that both standards fit onto one rail unit,
but on second thought ... how could one infinity-focus a 58mm otherwise ;-)
Cool so you're just leaving the second 15cm at home so to say...
Saving weight and nevertheless supporting both short and long usage scenarios...

As for tripod support ... I'm using a ReallyRightStuff ball head (relatively new BH-55 with Arca-Style) and have heard there are compatibility issues ... any clues?
http://reallyrightstuff.com/ProductDesc.aspx?code=BH-55-LR&type=3&eq=&desc=BH-55-LR%3a-Full-sized-ballhead-with-LR&key=it

Thanks,
Martin

Yes, sliding them both onto one makes it easy. I have the folding rail and the end result is kind of similar. I slide the standards to the front and then unscrew the hings and fold. Makes the Arca-Swiss camera much easier to transport. I store mine in a Lowe Pro backpack. I used to use the Photo Trekker, now I have the Trekker 400. The Arca is bulky compared to say a Chaminox but still compact enought to use in a reasonable sized pack. I had a Super Trekker but sold it as it was absolutely the worst pack I have ever used-hated it.

Here is a picture of the pack with camera in it.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/50965440@N08/4805402470/in/photostream

As far as the ballhead goes the BH-55 is a fantastic unit and will work perfectly with your camera. You will need to use bench as the rail alone is too narrow. I use the equally good Kirk BH-1 myself.

Here are a few blog posts where you might see some closer to the ballhead shots of the camera. Note I have the 8.5cm bench.


Here are a few

[Darren H]

Thanks again Darren, resummerfield and Neil!

So I'll simply use that one instead of one of the 15cm rails: http://www.arca-shop.de/en/product?info=411

How do you actually change/replace it?
Do you somehow release the 15cm rail from the bracket? Then run the function carrier off the 15cm rail and then run it onto the 30cm rail? And then re-insert the rail in the bracket and lock it?


Best regards,
Martin

Yes, that sounds about right. Should be a lever on the either end of the bench that will let you slide the rails around. Unlock one and slide it out. Then use a 30cm in its place. As resummerfield says, when packing the camera, side both standards onto the 15cm rail and pack that. Keep the bench and 30cm rail as a separate piece in your pack. Camera will still set up very quick.

One thing I noticed when I was looking at large format is that a folding field camera was easier to pack as it was a little smaller and lighter. However nothing could touch how quick the Arca-Swiss sets up, how easy it was to use and how solid it is. Sometimes bulk will trump everything but I gave some on bulk for the speed of setup and easy of use on the tripod.

Enjoy the new toy!

[EOTS]

I store mine in a Lowe Pro backpack. I used to use the Photo Trekker, now I have the Trekker 400... I had a Super Trekker but sold it as it was absolutely the worst pack I have ever used-hated it.


Cool! I'm using a Kata UL-222 with my Toyo Field, but bought a RPT P2 along with the Arca.
BTW: what's your experiences with air travel and backpack limitations (weight/size) in the USA?
(planning to travel to national parks around Utah / Arizona etc this year)



As far as the ballhead goes the BH-55 is a fantastic unit and will work perfectly with your camera. You will need to use bench as the rail alone is too narrow. I use the equally good Kirk BH-1 myself.
Here are a few blog posts where you might see some closer to the ballhead shots of the camera. Note I have the 8.5cm bench.


Hm ok, you think it'll work out-of-the-box with the bench?
Heard some rumors about the lever-release-clamp version somehow leaving to much room,
so that the someone's camera fell off the tripod head... the skrew-release version (which I don't have) seemed to work... will test before putting on the first lens ;-)

[EOTS]

One thing I noticed when I was looking at large format is that a folding field camera was easier to pack as it was a little smaller and lighter. However nothing could touch how quick the Arca-Swiss sets up, how easy it was to use and how solid it is. Sometimes bulk will trump everything but I gave some on bulk for the speed of setup and easy of use on the tripod.


Yeah! Would love to use the Arca on my 4-weeks trip to America (Utah, Arizona etc.) ... but I'm a bit afraid about the air travel regulations ...
will do some research ... if not possible, then I'll simply use my Toyo Field 45AII


Enjoy the new toy!

Thanks! Will do! ... hopefully soon ... :-D

[Darren H]

Cool! I'm using a Kata UL-222 with my Toyo Field, but bought a RPT P2 along with the Arca.
BTW: what's your experiences with air travel and backpack limitations (weight/size) in the USA?
(planning to travel to national parks around Utah / Arizona etc this year)



It has been a couple of years since I flew with large format. However I never had a problem as late as 2009. I always carried on the Arca-Swiss and never had an issue. They usually opened the pack but always let me on. One TSA guy working the xray machine, said, hey you got a large format camera-what brand?

I finally quit taking it just because since I was carrying the camera backpack and then another bag with Quickloads that I had alot of checked luggage and got tired of extra bag fees.

So now I always drive when I do large format work.

FedExing your film each way might actually be easier than the airport.

[Darren H]

BTW- I know you posted this about longer lenses but if you get an interest in wide angle lenses may I offer the suggestion for the leather wide angle bellows. As you start to go wider than the 150mm mark bellows compression will begin limiting rise, fall, and shift. You will still be good on back tilt. My 125mm starts to feel it and my 75mm has only a few mm of rise possible. I have both the synthetic bag bellows and the leather one. The leather one is the way to go. This comment may date myself and may not translate well across the Atlantic, but Fonzie would approve of the leather they use. Very supple, well made, and usable with a 47mm upto a 210mm lens.

[EOTS]

BTW- I know you posted this about longer lenses but if you get an interest in wide angle lenses may I offer the suggestion for the leather wide angle bellows. As you start to go wider than the 150mm mark bellows compression will begin limiting rise, fall, and shift. You will still be good on back tilt. My 125mm starts to feel it and my 75mm has only a few mm of rise possible. I have both the synthetic bag bellows and the leather one. The leather one is the way to go. This comment may date myself and may not translate well across the Atlantic, but Fonzie would approve of the leather they use. Very supple, well made, and usable with a 47mm upto a 210mm lens.

Thanks for the hint Darren!

Did you refer to the normal or the long bellows in your posting?

The wide angle lenses I'm using are Schneider 80mm and 110mm Super Symmar XL.
Along with 150mm, 240mm, 360mm,
and currently I'm mostly preferring/using front-tilt.

I thought the normal bellows would work with all those, as my Toyo bellows currently does...


Regards,
Martin

[Darren H]

The normal. I think the normal is a great choice for something in the 150-300 range. Go with that 80 or 110mm lens and a bag will be better.

I bought the leather and use it as my only bellows 95% of the time as I mainly use 75mm, 125mm, and a 210mm lens.

I do also have and Bausch and Lomb rectilinear that is about a 165 that you can take off one element to get a 320 or so. I rarely shoot it and that is the main time I take the normal bellows.

I found the synthetic bellows used for a bargain . As a bag bellows it is clearly not as good as the leather even if it as as functional. The pleates of the leather make easier to work as well as pack the camera.

[EOTS]

The normal. I think the normal is a great choice for something in the 150-300 range. Go with that 80 or 110mm lens and a bag will be better.

I bought the leather and use it as my only bellows 95% of the time as I mainly use 75mm, 125mm, and a 210mm lens.

I do also have and Bausch and Lomb rectilinear that is about a 165 that you can take off one element to get a 320 or so. I rarely shoot it and that is the main time I take the normal bellows.

I found the synthetic bellows used for a bargain . As a bag bellows it is clearly not as good as the leather even if it as as functional. The pleates of the leather make easier to work as well as pack the camera.


But that would probably mean use leather one & long one (as soon as getting that 720mm lens) and leave the normal at home?!
(except of course the normal would suffice)

Hmmm. I've a Apo Symmar 210 5,6. Normally I prefer the lighter Fuji 240A.
Perhaps I'll change preferences then at least in combination with the Arca ;-)

How time consuming is changing the bellows?
(never changed my Toyo bellows, guess it is fixed ;-) )

Which one is the leather version you'd recommend? (there's a 240 and a 200 version ... guess the 240?)
Bellows 6x9-4x5" conical, 24 cm, leather: http://www.arca-shop.de/en/product?info=436
Bellows 4x5" wide-angle, 20 cm, leather: http://www.arca-shop.de/en/product?info=440

Regards,
Martin

[Darren H]

But that would probably mean use leather one & long one (as soon as getting that 720mm lens) and leave the normal at home?!
(except of course the normal would suffice)

How time consuming is changing the bellows?
(never changed my Toyo bellows, guess it is fixed ;-) )

Which one is the leather version you'd recommend? (there's a 240 and a 200 version ... guess the 240?)

Regards,
Martin

Yes, I would say the leather wide angle and the long make a better pair. However, if the normal works with most of your lenses then you are set with just it.

The one you want depends on your camera standards. I have the Discovery which has the 171mm standards both front and back so I need the 20cm one. If you have the 4x5 rear standard but the smaller 6x9 front standard the 24cm is the one for that set up.

Arca bellows are literally a snap to change as the entire camera is modular. Two seconds to take one off and two more to put the other one on.

[EOTS]

Ah ok!
I'll see if I can find a used 20cm one then...

Cheers,
Martin