Tilt and swing, front and rear

[Ian Fields]

Hello!

I am a 35mm photographer, and recently have gotten interested in black and white landscape photogrphy. After doing some searching, I have found that large format is generally recommended for this type of photography, mainly because of larger negatives and tilt/swing controls.

My dad has a crown graphic, which we've been having some fun with. I have one question though, which is how to use the tilt and/or swing controls and what they do.

Thanks, Ian

[Robert C. McColloch]

Howard Bond's article in "Photo Techniques" magazine (May/June 1998, pp. 41 -45) can be found in any library or by using the web address http://www.largeformatphotography.info/articles/bond-checklist.html. This is a simple yet effective article that will answer your questions. Many books on this subject are overkill, confusing and hard to understand.

[Jay DeFehr]

Hi Ian, The Crown Graphic, like all Graflex press cameras, has no rear movements, and very limited front movements, which is just as well, because the standard lenses don't cover much more than the 4x5 format anyway. There are many resources for learning the basics of view camera movements, and the one cited above is probably as good as any. Good luck, and have fun.

[Alex Hawley]

As Jay said, the Graflex press cameras (http://0-2u.com?go=cameras" onmouseover="window.status = 'goto: cameras';return 1" onmouseout="window.status='') have limited front movement only but don't sell them short. They are capable of doing excellent work. One doesn't have to invest as much money to get started with one either. I got started in LF by borrowing a friend's and it just whetted my appetite to move on from there.

[Ian Fields]

Thanks for the information everyone. Jay, when you said "the standard lenses don't cover much more than the 4x5 format anyway.", would a 135mm be considered standard?

Thanks agian, Ian

[Ernest Purdum]

I'll try to give you some quick basics, before you get to the library. Front rise is most frequently used movement, and the only one on lots of old cameras. It is used to reduce the amount of foreground in front of your subject or to get the top of something tall into your picture. Front fall is used in a similar manner, usually when the subject is lower than the camera. Front shift is used to get the view you want when you can't get the camera into the position you would need to take it from straight on. Front tilts and swings change the plane of sharp focus from parallel to the film to a tilted or angled plane.



Rear rise, fall and shifts work just like the front equivalents, but in reverse, so they can augment the front movements or be used by themselves for convenience. This which can be very handy on very large cameras. Rear tilt is used to keep vertical lines straight up and down. If the back of the camera is kept vertical, all the vertical lines in the subject will be parallel. Or, if you want to, you can exaggerate perspective effects with back tilt, or even reverse them. Rear swing control how horizontal lines converge, or don't.



All of these movements except rear tilt and swing depend on excess "coverage", that is, the lenses image circle needs to be larger than the film's diagonal. If it isn't, as soon as you use a movement, the image goes right off your groundglass. How much excess coverage you need depends on the kind of work you intend. Portraits need little if any, landscapes don't ordinarily require much, but exterior architectural views can demand huge excess.



There are several useful books that give you a much fuller explanation than the over-simplified statements above. They also tell you how to get the most out of your movements. You could user up a lot of time and film finding out for yourself what these books can tell you. I think the best is Leslie Stroebel's "View Camera Technique". It's probably also the most expensive, but it shows up on eBay fairly often.

[Bruce Watson]

I second the nomination for the site:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/

Lots of good information here. Of particular interest to you is how to use swing and tilt in focusing a view camera:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/how-to-focus.html

As mentioned above, the Graphics may not have the full range of controls needed for complex focusing and perspective control. They were largely designed for the working press IIRC, who didn't need that kind of flexibility. Still, they are great camera for learning the basics, and for many people they are the only camera they ever need.

After you've read up on the techniques, take the camera outside and burn some film. The only way to turn that "book learning" into "gut feel" is to practice. Soon it will become just a natural thing to do and you won't even think about it anymore.

[j.e.simmons]

Also, for more information on the Crown Graphic, go to www.graflex.org

The earlier graphics used 127mm Kodak lenses as their standard lens, the later ones (and this may include all Crowns) used 135mm lenses of various manufacture. Most folks consider 150mm standard for 4x5, so your 135 is slightly wide, but very usable.

Go shoot with it and have fun.

[Ted Harris]

There are also two standard books on the subject, both with illustrations that doa nice job of demonstrating the principles invloved:



The first is View Camera Technique by Leslie Strobel and the Second Using the View Camera (I think the title is right)by Steve Simmons. Both should be in yoru library.

[Ernest Purdum]

Ian, since Jay seems to be occupied elsewhere, I will try to respond to your second question by amplifying a little on what i.e. simmons has already told you. It is not just the focal length that matters here. The 135mm lenses found on Graphics are Tessar types or Tessar derivatives, rather fast as view camera lenses go at f4.5. This is nice in many circumstances, but their angle of coverage is rather narrow. This means less excess coverage than a shorter lens that works at a wider angle might have. If your dad's Crown Graphic has a Graflok back, and you have or can get ahold of a 6X7 or 6X9 roll holder, you can try out the effect of front rise on it, but a 135mm Tessar type won't do much for you on 4" X 5". For that, you need either a longer or a wider lens. If you'd like some guidance on choosing a suitable lens, send me you address, and I'll send you a booklet on the subject.

[steve simmons]

Here are some books/articles that might help

Large Format Nature Photography by Jack Dykinga

User's Guide to the View Camera by Jim Stone

Using the View Camera that I wrote.

IMHO all are more friendly than the Stroebal book which is a tome.

Getting Started in Large Format that is in the free article section of our web site. There is also an article on 4x5 cameras priced less than $1,200.00 that might be helpful.

steve simmons www.viewcamera.com

[Ian Fields]

Thank you Ernest for the very helpful explaination. We own a 120 back (not sure if it 6x9, 6x7), but one problem. It does not have lines one the ground glass for it. We also own a 545 polaroid back, of which the prints look smaller than 4x5 (we also have one sheet film holder that can carry two sheets, but we've sadly never yet used). Steve - sorry, what is IMHO? Thanks for the book and article recomendations everyone.

Ian

[steve simmons]

IMHO means in my humble opinion.

steve

[Ian Fields]

Thanks Steve. Sorry, just one more question: is it possible to use modern lenses with a crown graphic? Thanks once again,

Ian

[Kevin Crisp]

Ian: Yes, make sure the lenses are not too long since the bellows draw of the camera is somewhat limited. (A 150mm lens requires that much bellows draw for focus at infinity, more to focus closer, etc.) I think the graflex bellows maxes out around 250 mm but you'll have to measure to be sure. A modern 150 or 135 lens like a Symmar would give you the ability to use front rise, for example, and for the first time in your photographic life, buildings will look as they should if you level the camera and frame the upper part of the building by raising the lens. If your camera has the side mounted Kalart rangefinder, adjusting it to a modern lens should be possible and you can use the rangefinder with it too.

[steve simmons]

is it possible to use modern lenses with a crown graphic? Thanks once again, Ian

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I recommend that the bellows be at least 25% longer than the longest lens you plan to use (this is described in the article Getting Statrted in Large Format on our web page). Otherwise you will be limited to focussing on objects a ways away from your camera position. Also, putting a lens with a #3 shutter on a camera like this is also not a good fit.

If you are really just getting started I would spend some time looking around before getting one of these cameras. Not everyone will agree with me but these cameras are very limited in their features and unless you like being retro I would select something else that might grow with you for a longer period of time. These cameras become available all of the time so don't be in a hurry to grab the first one. Take some time and see what is available.

Talk to peo;le like Lens and Repro, Quality Camera, Midwest Photo, etc. to see what they recommend. Listen, take notes, and see if their suggestions begin to settle on one type of camera. Also, what will you be photographing. Architecture takes more movements than portraiture or landscape.

steve simmons

[Ian Fields]

I enjoy doing mostly landscape (bw). Almost all large format lenses are compatible with other cameras then (as long as bellows are large enough)? Thanks, but I probably won't buy a camera (for a while at least) because of my limited experience (and budget), unless it as you described has more movement than the graflex (and is on the rather extreme side of cheap). Yet another question: What kind of bw 4x5 sheet film to use? If possible, could someone describe the characteristics of Ilford HP5+, FP4+, Kodak Tri-X, T-max, or any other film you use?

Ian

[Bob._3483]

Any of the films you list will do you just fine to start with. You can download the datasheets for the films from the Kodak and Ilford web sites. If you have a tripod, you may as well choose the slower films to get the least grain; if no tripod, choose a faster one and save up for a tripod inteh meantime... Possibly avoid T-Max & Delta for now. Use one of the older style emulsions as they are more forgiving in development. Detailed discussion of their individual characteristics would take a book - a book who's conclusions no one would agree with (I'll happily bet that at least 25% of readers will dissagree with even the simple statement above ;-) )....

LF lenses are (usually) completely self contained: they are screwed together with a shutter and the whole lens/shutter combination is mounted on a lens panel which then clips to the camera. Only the lens panel differs between cameras (having said that, several manufacturers have adopted the same lens panel design as used by Linhof). So, generally, to move a lens from one make of camera to another, it is simply unscrewed from one panel and screwed to another that fits the other camera.

Basically, I think you need to do some more reading. Visit your local main library; if it is of any size it will have a couple of books featuring LF, at least partially. Look on the home page of this forum: www.largeformatphotography.info. Do a web search; there's a lot of info out there.

Good luck & cheers,

[Ken Schroeder]

No one has really addressed the "tilt" function on the graphics. In the normal position, the "tilt" function is backward. I don't believe this was ever really intended to be a tilting front, at least by the designers. The marketing people may have thought differently. The backward tilt serves the purpose of making the front standard (which holds the lensboard) parallel with the film plane when the bellows are in the dropped position. The dropped position is necessary to prevent the bed from vignetting into the film image. The dropped bed position is necessary with the 90 mm lens on the Speed Graphic and the 65mm lens on the Crown Graphic. (The difference is due to the longer minimum focus length with the focal plane shutter on the Speeds.)

Using the camera in the dropped bed position allows the tilt to operate in a forward mode. This, indeed is a very useful function. By tilting the camera back slightly from vertical and adjusting the front tilt and rise/fall, it is possible to mimic the back tilt.

The "normal" lens with the 4x5 graphics is the 162mm. The 135mm was originally considered normal with the smaller 3x4 cameras. Early on, enterprising photographers discovered that using the shorter lenses gave them more image, just like the 35mm crowd who started relying on the 35mm lenses. Yes, with wide apertures, the corner coverage was fuzzy, but this could be remedied by stopping down when necessary.

For more serious view camera type work, the wider coverage of a six element Symmar or Sironar type lens will yield more covering area. These lenses are plentiful used, and are among the most reasonably priced new. One thing to keep in mind is that large format lenses can be interchanged between different lensboards. I have found that the combination of a 200 (M Nikon) and a 135 cover 90% of my needs. Both are very usable on a Crown Graphic.