Spain

[Terry Hull]

Spending 3 weeks in Spain. Asa usual the decision as to whether or not to take 4X5, but will be visiting: Madrid, Cuenca, Barcelona, Cadaqués, and maybe Saragossa. I am thinking of doing some full length 4X5 street portraits of willing volunteers, as well as architectural subjects. I am well aware of the PP problem having been deftly relieved of a camera in Atocha station :( , so I am also doing a little safety strategizing!

Anyone have any ideas about places en route, particularly along the coast between Valencia and Barcelona?

Thanks.

[Ramiro Elena]

The mediterranean coast of Spain is ruined by out of control construction, specially in Valencia. You could visit El Delta del Ebro, where the Ebro river meets the sea. It is very beatiful, rice fields, sand dunes... the rest is pretty ugly.

Cadaqués and whereabouts is very nice too. Port Lligat...

I would avoid Zaragoza unless you have to drive by it.

PP, yes! I's crazy. :(

[Nathan Potter]

What is the PP problem - no rest rooms? I like the area around Malaga but that is on the coast fairly far south. The old city of Rhonda is really wonderful.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[Terry Hull]

PP=Pick pockets

[prado333]

if you want do architectural subjects come to La Rioja, Rafael Moneo´s city hall, Frank Ghery Spa Marqués del Riscal , Calatravas winewards , is near to Zaragoza About 2hours and at one and a half of Bilbao Guggenhein Museum .
All the best.

[Valdecus]

Terry,

When in Madrid, you may want to consider day trips to Toledo and Segovia. Both cities are very beautiful and offer spectacular Roman, Moorish, and Medieval architecture (aqueduct in Segovia, cathedrals and palaces in Toledo).

http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/53708963.jpg

As Ramiro pointed out, the Mediterranean coast is ruined in many places. However, Port Lligat, Cadaqués, as well as the Ebro delta are marvellous places to do landscape photography.

¡Buen viaje!
Andreas

[Terry Hull]

We are trying not to rent a car, preferring train/bus; however from Barza to Cadaqués maybe we should rent a car, or take a train to Figueres? I am trying to include Cuenca instead of Saragossa in transit from Alcalá de Henares to Barza-any thoughts? We will be spending time in Madrid at the back end of the trip. I assume we would go Cuenca to Valencia in transit, when using public transport, or can I arrive further north along the coast without going into Valencia?

Any thoughts on large format street portraits from "street volunteers"?

Thanks again

[lbenac]

You could visit El Delta del Ebro, where the Ebro river meets the sea. It is very beatiful, rice fields, sand dunes... the rest is pretty ugly.

If you are there take a side trip toward Tortosa (stay a night at the Parador) and the small coastal mountains coming down toward Hospitalet Del Infante or Reus. On the way up North stop at Tarragona. Further North stop at Girona, well worth spending a couple of night there and exploring a few villages around (Besalu...).


Cadaqués and whereabouts is very nice too. Port Lligat...

There are hiking trail going to Cap de Creus, that I would love trying out. Off season it is pretty quiet and many things are closed, on season, you do not want to go there. I suspect that June and September would be a happy medium.

Transport Madrid to Valencia/Sevilla/Barcelona is fine with fast expansive speed trains. Transport in between coastal city is not as good. You do not want a car in Madrid...but if you are stopping at smaller cities you need a car to enjoy the surrounding villages and mountains roads.
I would plan my trip by staying a week - in/around Madrid, a week + in Catalunya with a few days with a car (Barcelona, Girona, Cadaques) and a few days in between in a city of your choice (i.e. Valencia on your way down from Catalunya before going to Madrid)
Barcelona>Valencia>Madrid

Enjoy

Luc

[Ramiro Elena]

All of what Luc said. Keep in mind Cadaqués is inaccessible without a car or a boat. There might be a bus that takes you there. Renting a car in Barcelona is a good idea. That way you can stop in a couple more places in the way to Cadaqués, the ones up north being the nicer ones. Girona city is very nice too.

That being said, I'd avoid driving in large cities. Rentals are not like in the US, they're very expensive. Oh, and gas of course is three times more.

Photographing people in the street... that depends on your charm I'd say. I suck at it.

[tgtaylor]

A few...14 years back (my how time flies!) I did a bicycle trip that started in Madrid and ended in Rome. Part of your proposed route, Valencia to Barcelona, was on my itinerary as well.

At the time I was following Hannibal's route into Italy during the Second Punic War. Just a few kilometers north of Valencia situated on the summit of a steep hill is the fortress city of ancient Saguntum (Sagunto) which was allied with Rome. It was here that the 2d Punic War began after an excruciating 8 month siege by Hannibal in which he suffered a serious wound. The ruins are both extensive and preserved - well worth the time to vist.

The road from Valencia to Barcelona follows the Mediterranean with beaches to your immediate right and campgrounds to the immediate left with the road separating the two. Expect heavy vehicular traffic. We were confined for the most part to riding that thin right line but nevertheless was a great ride with a dip in the Mediterranean and supper on the beach each evening.

There's a gay nudists beach just before entering Barcelona which you probably wouldn't notice unless traveling by bicycle. Don't trust the Barcelona campgrounds. I wouldn't have spent a couple of days there touring the city if I hadn't discovered the lockers at the train station to store my tent et al during the day. (The campgrounds in Madrid, on the other hand, were completely safe.)

From Barcelona I crossed the Pyrenees at Girona and spent one night in a campground overlooking the border crossing situated on top of a high hill overlooking the land with an ancient castle which is now restaurant operating by the campground owner. Very friendly and informative people - like most that I ran into during my travels - and the food and scenery is exquisite. The owner is away during the day but arrives in the afternoon to open the restaurant. If camping just select your spot and pay him in the castle.

Thomas

[Terry Hull]

Wow! What great advice thanks. Following Hannibal's route-how great is that! Ramiro-I will turn on my charm with portraits and hope for the best. I am assuming a small 4X5 on a tripod will be harder to have my pocket picked.

About Cadaqués-Another site has recommended a taxi from Figueres-seems to me it might overdo my budget. Que se parecen?

[Terry Hull]

I still am having a little trouble planning and wonder if I might lean on you nice people one more time. We arrive at Barajas AM on a Monday. So far I have booked a small efficiency in Barza beginning the following Sunday for one week. We have four more nights in Spain after Barza B4 departure from Spain.

My dilemma: I really want to see places such as Girona, Figueres, Cadaqués, but can't figure best way, as I look at the map. It seems Saragossa route is most direct, although Cuenca seems more appealing.

Specific questions : Is four days enough to go from Madrid after arrival to Girona, Figueres, Cadaqués, going to Barza on the 5th day after arrival, or would public transit eat up the time? In other words start out north of Barza first? Also wonder if Huesca is doable, after reading several books about the Guerra Civil.

[Ramiro Elena]

I am not sure I understood your plan correctly but...

Madrid-Barcelona by car takes around 6-8 hours. 3 to Zaragoza and 3 more to Barcelona. Not much to see in between except for a couple very small towns and the Monegros desert which might be cool to photograph (maybe?). I think there might still be a couple Osborne signs (http://www.extraconfidencial.com/archivos2/Toro_Osborne_Cabezas_de_San_Juan.jpg) in the way too.

If you take the Cuenca route I am not sure how much longer it will take but keep in mind parts of it are not highway (slower but maybe nicer scenery?).
You could just visit Cuenca and return to Madrid but my guess is Madrid will eat up your time since there's so much to see. The Prado Museum is well worth a two day visit and there's also the Thyssen Bornemisza. Don't leave Madrid without trying "bocadillo de calamares".

I would visit Girona, Cadaqués etc once you are settled in Barcelona. Rent a car for a day or two and drive to Girona. Have lunch there and visit Cadaqués in the afternoon. If you like it up there and want to see more you could always get a hotel in Girona and drive around.

The place you showed me in Barcelona is okay/not great. That area is poorly constructed and the appartments are a little bit smaller than tiny. The stairway is usually midget size and nasty looking. Then again, you are not planning on staying in much. You need to take the bus to get to the center. The nearest subway station is Barceloneta to which you need to walk a little. Good thing is the beach is a couple blocks away.
You can actually walk Barcelona. I used to do it when I was a teenager drunk at 4am so it is doable, you just get really tired.
You will get robbed in the subway no doubt. Keep your wallet and passport in a inner pocket. You will get robbed in the Sagrada Familia no doubt...

Huesca is a bit out of the way but the National Parks are incredible. Everything that is close to the Pirinees is wonderful.

The gay nudist beach Thomas talks about is my home town. If you Google Sitges you will get all kinds of gay tourism offers :D

I'd take the AVE (fast train) from Madrid to Barcelona. It will save you time and it is cool to travel at 300kph.

[sanking]

Huesca is a bit out of the way but the National Parks are incredible. Everything that is close to the Pirinees is wonderful.



My view would be to just scrape the rest of the trip, rent a car in Madrid and head to Huesca, visit the Mallos de Riglos, and then spend the rest of the time in the Pirineos of Aragon. Anything in and around Ordessa is wonderful, also the valley near Hecho is great.

Sandy

[Terry Hull]

Thanks folks! Ramiro-Great photos on your site.

[Ramiro Elena]

Thanks folks! Ramiro-Great photos on your site.

Thanks Terry.
As a pre-teen my parents sent me to summer camp in Ordesa. We spent 15 days camped inside the park (nobody else is allowed to camp there) doing day trips to hills, valleys and waterfalls.
One day we walked at 5 am into the woods and waited for the forest to awaken all covered with dried leaves. I still remember that day.

[Terry Hull]

Thanks everybody! There is much to see and do, but some is going to have to wait until I convince my wife to walk the Camino. I also put a book review on my blog
http://www.sociedadhispanadoylestown.com/2012/01/guernica-by-david-bolingpablo-picasso.html that really makes me want to go to Pais Vasco!

[Domingo A. Siliceo]

Barcelona could take all the three weeks and you will not finish it! Around Cadaqués, all the coast from Roses to Colera worth a couple of days.

I don't like typical Valencia. The Ciudad de las Artes has a zillion pictures of it, from every angle in every hour of the day, but if you finally decide to go there better visit the Albufera (http://www.albufera.com/). The Delta de l'Ebre, as someone has suggested, is as interesting as the Albufera if you want an approach to the typical mediterranean manners.

Pictorically speaking, and in my opinion, nothing there and nothing between Valencia and Madrid.

If you have a more concise doubt, don't hesitate to ask and, above all, enjoy your journey.

Bienvenido.

[lbenac]

Barcelona could take all the three weeks and you will not finish it! Around Cadaqués, all the coast from Roses to Colera worth a couple of days.

I don't like typical Valencia. The Ciudad de las Artes has a zillion pictures of it, from every angle in every hour of the day, but if you finally decide to go there better visit the Albufera (http://www.albufera.com/). The Delta de l'Ebre, as someone has suggested, is as interesting as the Albufera if you want an approach to the typical mediterranean manners.

Pictorically speaking, and in my opinion, nothing there and nothing between Valencia and Madrid.

If you have a more concise doubt, don't hesitate to ask and, above all, enjoy your journey.

Bienvenido.

I second Domingo. From a value photo/kilometer the North of Catalunya is a great value Barcelona/Girona/Cadaques with a few days in each and some driving in the surroundings. Mountains to the West are also great but this is another trip in itself...

I have not been to Valencia in 20 years so it has probably changed a lot which would be too bad because I have fond memories of the area. From there driving into Sierras de Cazorla y Seguras en route to Granada - but again that is another trip in his own rights. I cannot speak about Spain because it is impossible to stop at one region there is always something more to see. Regretfully the last time I could have some decent time to travel there (one month) was 20 years ago.

I any case if I could make a suggestion it would be to limit your travel to a two regions 10 days each (for now) :
1) as above and from there take the speed train to Madrid
2) Madrid and surroundings - you can range far and wide easily from Madrid
(You can even take another bullet train and spend a few days in Sevilla)
The essential is to take the time to stay in a region and enjoy

Cheers,

Luc

[Terry Hull]

Boy I am unable to get the Renfe train site to work to book train tickets. Anyone know if there is a US number? I wonder if I have to book in advance for the overnight estrella 370 from Madrid to Girona?

[Ramiro Elena]

You just bumped into RENFE's site :D the worst piece of crap ever designed. If you plan to stay in Madrid for 5 days, I'd head to the nearest train station and get the tickets in person. There shouldn't be any availability problem.
You will have to take two trains I'd guess. One to Barcelona and then one to Girona. Not sure though.
You could call them but I doubt they speak any english. Here's the (normal wage) phone number for reservations: 954 487 620.
It isn't free but cheaper than the 902 number for which you pay extra.

[Terry Hull]

Thanks Elena me parecía que era falta de tecnología mia! I think there is an overnight sleeper that gets as far as Girona, but that is what I am trying to figure out!

[lbenac]

Terry,

I would plan that way:
Train Barcelona/Madrid or Madrid/Barcelona depending where you are landing. Spend a few days in Barcelona going around is not a problem. Don't forget the Hospital de San Pau BTW. Rent a car to go to Cadaques. Stop on the way at Figueres, there is a small restaurant that specialize on "plancha" seafood on the cast iron grill. You can use the car at Cadaques to drive to Port Lligat and Cap de Creu and even drive to the border - the road is very nice. Then drive to Girona, keep the car for one day to go to Besalu then return the car. Spend a couple of days in Girona and then back to Barcelona or Madrid.
When we stay in Girona we stay at Hotel peninsular
http://www.novarahotels.com/hotel-peninsular/ca/index.asp. Good price well located and nice. Evening stroll on the murallas is a must...

It is torture to discuss Spain without me going :eek: I never tire to go to Spain (my Dad leaves there half of the year).

Enjoy you lucky b%#@$@&:D

Luc

[Domingo A. Siliceo]

[...]
I think there is an overnight sleeper that gets as far as Girona, but that is what I am trying to figure out!

yes, there is one


http://s8.postimage.org/53c5kqryd/renfe.png

I second Ramiro's suggestion to buy tickets in person once you'll be in Madrid.

[Terry Hull]

Domingo-Thanks-for three days i have been trying to book the train, and the website is always down. A skype friend in Madrid has me convinced I am better off waiting until I get there and hoping the with only two days anticipation I can still find a bed on the train to Figueres!

[Domingo A. Siliceo]

[...]
and hoping the with only two days anticipation I can still find a bed on the train to Figueres!

I've just made a simulation to buy two tickets, first class, cabin with two beds in this night's train and had no problem to finish the process; with the high speed trains covering Madrid to Barcelona in little less than 3 hours, night trains had become mostly useless.

Don't worry for your tickets, Terry.

[Ramiro Elena]

Yep, nobody has any money in Spain so I doubt anyone will be travelling to Figueres that same day :D
Like Domingo says, most people choose the fast train these days.

[Scott Davis]

Funny - all the discussions about theft are the opposite of what I encountered there. No problems in Madrid, none at the Sagrada Familia or on the Barcelona Metro, and I was warned off of the overnight trains between Barcelona and Madrid because of theft problems in coach (probably not a problem in first class where you have a locking cabin door).

I'll put in another vote for a day trip to Segovia from Madrid (very easy on the train - you can get one of the cercanias that takes about an hour and a half/two hours to get from Madrid to Segovia, and then it's a short city bus ride into downtown). I spent two summers living in Segovia when I was a teenager, and I was back again a few years ago to revisit my old stomping grounds.

[Terry Hull]

Scott-loved Segovia on last visit-Domingo/Ramiro thanks! Nice to hear the PP's may not be omnipresent-might take a 4X5 aftre all!

[Terry Hull]

Renfe site works great until payment-then it balks-every time! I also notice several other travel websites recommend ignoring it and going through Rail Europe. Thanks again to everyone. I finalized with 2 nights Alcalá de Henares, 2 nights in Girona (Huesca, banyoles) 2 nights Cadaqués, 7 nights Barca (Messi?), and 4 nights Madrid (Cristiano Ronaldo-no way!!)

[Ramiro Elena]

(Cristiano Ronaldo-no way!!)
You're no doubt in the right path.

[Terry Hull]

Decided to rent a car the 2nd day after arrival and drive from Alacalá de Henares to Cadaqués with a few stops en route. How bad a drive would it be from Alcalá to Huesca in one day?

[Ramiro Elena]

Doable. Madrid - Zaragoza is three hours. Googlemaps says one more hour to Huesca (taking the highway that is A-2).

[Terry Hull]

Back from a nice 3 weeks in Spain. Really enjoyed Barcalona (notwithstanding extreme precaution my wife pocket ws picked-man those folks are skillful), also enjoyed Besalú, Gerona and Madrid!
Thanks to all of you for your help-Took about 25 rolls of 120 film-great camera store in Madrid if you need film purchases-Foto Ocaisons in rastro. It is also nice that grey haired folks over 65 (like me) get nice discounts in Museums, buses, etc.
Sure would be nice if the US could co-opt some of that great transportation infrastructure in Spain!