Need digital camera for architecture w/shift wide-angle

[Sandy Sorlien]

Hello all,

Please don't attack me for asking about digital SLRs on this forum. I figure the real architectural photographers are here and will understand what I want. I do use a view camera for architecture normally, but may start working on urban design charrettes, a job that necessitates a lot of fast shooting of buildings and streets, and fast uploading into PowerPoint for immediate presentation. I have already done this with my little Olympus digital camera, and did my perspective correction in Photoshop, but the ability to use my existing Nikon shift lenses (28mm and 35mm) with a digital SLR would be fabulous. As far as I can tell the wonderful and affordable Nikon D100 takes them (with reduced features) but because the sensor is smaller than 35mm, my 28mm becomes a 42mm lens and the 35mm becomes a 52mm. I need the 28mm angle of view. The more expensive Kodak DSC Pro 14n has full-frame 35mm proportions and takes Nikon F-mount lenses, but reviews for its image quality are pretty poor.

Anyone have any brilliant ideas? A view camera is out, I have to work very fast. It has to be digital. At the moment I'm thinking I will have to stick with a non-shift lens and correct them later, but doing this to hundreds of images takes valuable time.

I can live without tilt for this purpose.

Cheers, Sandy

[Peter Witkop]

I'm not sure if you mean the view camera is out because of speed in shooting or in post, so this may or may not be usefull. Calumet (www.calumetphoto.com) makes a small a small version of their Ultima view camera that uses a dslr (or I suppose a 35mm slr) as the capture device. If you do a search for "Ultima" on their site you should see what I'm talking about.

Peter

[Paul Kierstead]

Canon 1Ds + Canon TS-E Lenses? OK, different system, pretty expensive from where you are (nikon).

I think you should re-read the Kodak reviews. In good light with short shutter speeds (not in the multi-second zone), they quality appears extremely good. This sounds like it may meet your shooting conditions. The latest firmware revisions have reportedly improved thing as well. Many shops seem to have them for rent; if you have one nearby why not try it yourself?

[Frank Petronio]

Sandy - Most of the issues with the Kodak 14n have been resolved through firmware and software updates. Kodak may have flubbed the launch, but they have done an excellent job of supporting the camera and continuing to develop improvements. You should give it a second look, as the price has come down too. You can get a good idea of the current state of affairs on this and other digicam topics in the excellent forums at http://www.robgalbraith.com/

[neil poulsen]

I wish to heck that Nikon would introduce a 24mm shift lens. Why have they left a gap like this in their offering? I guess they don't think it's crucial. Think about a 24mm, 28mm, 35mm shift lens capability on 35mm SLRs. That would be excellent for architecture.

As it is, there's also the Canon 24mm along with the Schneider 29.2mm shift lens with a Canon mount. And of course, the D1s! I'll just whip out my wallet and dig into my spare change for that one.

I think that the camera of choice for architecture is the view camera. But, it's also helpful to have a nice complement of 35mm lenses to go along for progress shots and the like.

[Jeffrey Scott]

Aren't there issues with CCD sensors in digital cameras not responding too well to light coming at an angle to them? If so, wouldn't shift lenses agravate the problem?

Olympus made a 24mm shift lens, I don't know if it is still available.

[Øyvind Dahle]

Take picture with a good wide angle digital compact straight on, take even two for wider angles.

Fix the rest on the computer: make the "A" to an "H"

Øyvind:D

[Kevin Kemner]

Sandy,

My thought is that your best solution would be to find the best DSLR that meets your needs and then correct the perspective in photoshop. In our office we use a Canon D60 with a Tokina 17mm (I think) prime focal length lens. In photoshop we correct the perspective by pinching rather than stretching so we can maintain the highest resolution. The Tokina is a good flat field lens, however, if you have problems with pincushion or barrel distortion there are a couple plug ins that will correct this. Several of the photographers we use on our projects have taken this approach when photographing building details. In all honesty its difficult to determine which images were shot with perspective correction in the view camera and corrected digitally.

[jnantz]

hi sandy

i have been doing site work/ architectural and press photography with a d100 since about feb. i use a 18-35 zoom lens and if i have to, i fix in photoshop. others have suggested or at least mentioned the kodak dslr, i would stay away from it. from what i have heard speaking with repair folks (in rhode island at least) they say from their perspective ( pardon the pun) kodak is having lots of trouble and their cameras are sent to one facility 'somewhere ' and a pain to have repaired if something ever goes wrong.

good luck

john

[tim atherton]

What perspective control/correction plug-ins are you finding good in photoshop?

(not really dslr yet, but every now and then I could use it for a 4x5 or 7=8x10 neg that isn't quite right)

[Sandy Sorlien]

Thanks everyone -- it sounds like my ideal situation does not quite exist, except possibly the DSC - does anyone else think I should avoid Kodak? Oyvind is quite right, taking two pictures side-by-side is an option to get more wide angle, except I am trying to avoid a lot of post-upload correction and compositing time. Speed speed speed! How anti-LF, sorry.... I already have a small view camera and could get a digital back, but there is no way I can do this kind of work with a tripod. Well, I'll try to track down a DSC to rent or borrow. One thing that worries me is it's a big beast and I have small hands.

Cheers, Sandy

[Ellis Vener]

The poor quality reports on the 14N were based on early versions of the camera and firmware-- both of which have been vastly improved since last Spring., and the price has dropped to boot. the camera still isn't great at ISO settings of over 200 -- good to fair as you increase ISO settings above 200. kodak is offering a free rental day coupon as a current promotional special

[Emmanuel BIGLER]

Sandy, you should have a look at this article on the French MF/LF web site

http://www.galerie-photo.com/test-gaud.html

The author, Henri Gaud (http://www.editionsgaud.com), is an uncompromising French professional LF architecture photographer, but he praises what he can get with a 24mm Canon T+S lens.

In the article he presents in parallel different images of the same subject (Fontevraud Abbey) taken with the Canon 24mm T+S lens, a 55 Rodenstock apo-Grandagon on an Alpa 12-shift, and a Fuji 50mm on a 6x8 Fuji GX680 camera.

The apo-grandagon wins, no surprise, but Canon engineers made an incredible good job with the 24mm T+S. The idea is that from a MF slide you always have a slight loss by digitizing the image, wheread a direct digital capture although of much lesser theoretical quality in 35mm (even "full-frame 24x36" like on the Canon 1DS) may be more than acceptable for many publications.

[David Kaplan]

First, I have to say that I am associated with ALPA. I spent several days demonstrating in their booth at the last Photokina and was an ALPA rep in the New York City area.

ALPA's precision and workmanship is in a class by itself, as compared to every other MF camera that I have used. Check out their web site at www.alpa.ch which is in English.

I can be reached directly at dp_kaplan@yahoo.com for a more detailed description of the ALPA system.

[Rainer]

as i listened the nikon 28mm shift doesnt work together with the kodak 14n. the kodak is too big and you cannot use the knob for shifting the lense up..................... maybee the schneider sa- pc28 works, but i dont know this.

[Lloyd_3846]

Here is a rather radical approach. If you do not need high resolution images (over 10 meg files - after cropping) get a Nikon 5000 or 5400 with 19mm adapter. The extra coverage (19mm vs 28mm) will allow you to shoot with your camera level/no convergence and then you crop the extra from the bottom and sides to fill the frame. This would be an inexpensive and fast system. The 19mm has some barrel distortion but can be removed in one step with an action available from the Nikon E Book CDs or your own custom action. You could shoot pix, apply corrective action to the entire project folder, and then crop to your desired composition and image size for Powerpoint presentation. That is the fastest solution I can think of.

[Sandy Sorlien]

Thanks Lloyd, that would work great as long as those cameras are full-frame sensors -- are they? If they are the usual 1.5 factor, then that 19mm lens is really a 28 and I would not have the luxury of cropping the foreground and sides and still have a 28-equivalent angle of view. The camera I have now (Olympus 2020) can be used this way (well, any camera can) but it just isn't wide enough (about 38mm).

Many good ideas in this thread, thanks everyone.

Sandy

[Bill_1856]

Don't forget that your PC Nikkor lenses will fit on a Canon EOS with an easily available and inexpensive adapter.