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tonicito
5-Feb-2012, 14:00
Hi everyone! :)

I recently got a new old camera, a Voigtländer Rollfilm 5x8 (picture can be seen here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tonicito/6640128439/). The lens is a Heliar 8.3cm 1:4.5 and it is mounted on a dial-set Compur shutter speeded up to 1/300.

By the serial number on my Heliar (314325) I could date it to 1927 (through some lists of Voigtländer serial numbers available on the web). Then I tried to find out the year of my shutter as well, since lenses could be manufactured years before they were mounted on a camera. The serial number on my dial-set Compur is 44414 and, I am not sure if it corresponds to one of the standard sizes, but it is really small (maybe a #000?). I am not sure if shutters for roll film cameras follow similar size standards as the ones for large format lenses. Now, all references I was able to find in the web for Compur serial numbers (for example here: http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Compur_serial_numbers, although all seem to take the source from Wilkinson, M, and C Glanfield. 2001. A Lens Collector's Vade Mecum) begin with 214000 in 1912.

It seems to me that the serial numbers on the dial-set Compur were not that standardized, or they followed another system...

Does anyone know a sound way to determine the age of a dial-set Compur? How old is my shutter really (I would guess sometime between 1927 and 1929, because in 1930 the first rim-set Compur shutters were used on this model...)

Many thanks in advance! :)
Toni

IanG
5-Feb-2012, 14:09
It's all here (http://motamedi.info/serial.htm) and Jason's a member of this site as well. S/N is on the side of the shutter, also the lens S/N helps but they can vary as compampanies kept stocks of shutters and lenses and so they can be a year or two different.

I have a Dial-set Compur from 1913 still works smoothly.

Ian

tonicito
5-Feb-2012, 14:26
Ian,

thanks for your reply! I already knew the the page you mentioned. Unfortunately, Compur shutter serial numbers there start with 214000 in 1912, and my shutter's number is 44414 (from the side of the shutter, yes), which is much lower than that. But the patent for the dial set Compur dates from 1912, so I guess there might be something I am missing here.

Many thanks for your help, it is really appreciated!
Toni :)

leighmarrin
6-Feb-2012, 02:45
Toni, your first link did not work for me, but I was able to find another link to your fascinating little Voigtlander folder:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tonicito/6640128439/in/photostream

So it's a 129 rollfilm camera converted to 127 rollfilm--very interesting, and great on its 8.3cm Heliar lens. I'll watch your photostream for photos from it.

FWIW, I was very happy a couple of years ago to find a well-worn but working Voigtlander Suberb TLR with a 7.5cm Heliar for $75/US, in a local antique store.

--Leigh in Santa Barbara, Calif.

BrianShaw
6-Feb-2012, 09:49
Well thais has been a nintersting thread. I looked up my dial Compur (which runs like a Swiss watch) and it dates to 1925. Interestingly, I believe it was delivered as original equipment on a 1940 Aniversary Graphic.

edp
6-Feb-2012, 12:23
Are you sure you're not missing a digit or two from your shutter serial number? It's not been painted over or anything?

BrianShaw
6-Feb-2012, 12:32
Are you sure you're not missing a digit or two from your shutter serial number? It's not been painted over or anything?

Ha... great minds think alike... I looked twice!

edp
6-Feb-2012, 12:36
Heh. But I didn't mean you, I meant the original poster with his 5-digit number.

BrianShaw
6-Feb-2012, 13:00
Heh. But I didn't mean you, I meant the original poster with his 5-digit number.

Oh... OK. But the comment seemed to apply to me too. ;)

edp
6-Feb-2012, 13:17
Once upon a time I had a 8.3cm Heliar in a dial-set Compur exactly like the one on that camera, but it's gone now so I can't compare it. I never had the camera that went with it.

tonicito
7-Feb-2012, 11:11
Hello everyone!

Many thanks for your replies! :) Unfortunately I couldn't check the forum until today...

edp I double-checked and to me it looks clearly like a 5-digit serial number. In fact, I found a picture of another Voigtländer Rollfilm on flickr (Note!, this is NOT my camera!) with an even lower serial number on the shutter, here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fred_i_sverige/4652735033/

leighmarrin I am so jealous of your Superb with an Heliar for that price! The only one I once saw was like 500€... :( BTW, here you can see pictures I took with this camera: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tonicito/sets/72157628361941667/

Many thanks again for your help, guys, I knew this was the right place to come with my strange curiosity... ;)

Toni
--
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tonicito
Blog: http://aphotochallengeaday.blogspot.com

edp
7-Feb-2012, 11:37
edp I double-checked and to me it looks clearly like a 5-digit serial number. In fact, I found a picture of another Voigtländer Rollfilm on flickr (Note!, this is NOT my camera!) with an even lower serial number on the shutter, here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fred_i_sverige/4652735033/

Fair enough. I wish I'd noted the number on my similar shutter, now. I looked at all the dial-set Compurs I can find around me here and each of them matched within a few years of the lenses mounted in them, according to the lists of serial numbers noted elsewhere in this thread.

leighmarrin
8-Feb-2012, 01:33
[QUOTE=tonicito;843744]
leighmarrin: I am so jealous of your Superb with an Heliar for that price! The only one I once saw was like 500€... :( BTW, here you can see pictures I took with this camera: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tonicito/sets/72157628361941667/

Toni, I enjoyed your photo with the converted 127 Voigtlander, especially the last one of the musician. Also like the long, thin aspect ratio of the ~5x8cm format. Are you able to use the red window to accurately estimate film frames?

While the 7.5cm Heliar is in fairly good shape on my Voigtlander Superb, its viewing lens has a lot of etching on the front element, and its mirror/viewfinder is very hazy. But the Compur shutter is still accurate, and no light leaks. The odd side-lever advance is very different from a Rollei, but quite usable.

When I first got it I was mystified as to why the shutter speeds were printed backwards: 1/100 was 001/1 --then I realized it was MISSING a little odd mirror/prism-gadget to view the shutter speeds from waist level. So I don't think mine could sell for 500 Euros. Still, eventually I'm going to have the viewfinder cleaned, as its a good user-camera.

--Leigh M.

tonicito
10-Feb-2012, 03:01
Hi everyone!

edp, thanks for your help! I guess I'll have to keep researching this topic... in two weeks there is a big camera trade show in Munich (http://www.camera-trade-shows.de/html/show-dates.html) and I'll try to find out about my Compur with the people there... as well as browsing and maybe doing a little "old camera shopping" ;)

leighmarrin, I'm glad you liked the pictures, the one of the street musician is my favorite as well. The camera was originally 5x8 (cm) but it got a 4x6.5 mask (hence the "elongated" aspect ratio) with the conversion to 127 film. This means I am perfectly able to get 8 4x6.5 pictures on a 127 roll using the red window and the markings on the back paper quite normally.
The reversed shutter speeds on your Superb are a really ingenious (although maybe a little overengineered?) solution, the kind of gimmicks that make me love such old cameras. Voigtländer was especially famous for such imaginative features. The parallax-correcting viewing lens on your Superb is another favorite :)

Thanks everyone for your help, and I would still be very glad if someone knew a little more about Compur shutter serial numbers... :)

Tracy Storer
22-Dec-2013, 11:19
I'll chime in with data to compare, a 114mm Heliar sn#319xxx(1927-28 from the Voigtlaender section on Jasons page), in a dial -set Compur with a 5 digit sn.#490xx.
In case anybody is collecting data.
The lens mounting threads seem just under "modern #1" size.