Info please on Scientific Lens Co Portrait lens

[lenser]

Was just in a fiend's studio and spotted a big old piece of brass on a shelf. It's made by Scientific Lens Co. in New York, is labeled a portrait lens (about the same size as my Dallmeyer 3A), is a f4-250 with a Waterhouse slot, and the serial number is 11898. Good glass with only slight hazing so we might put it back into service.

A quick search here found very little information and a Google search produced nothing, so I'm asking for any information the our members might have about the history of the lens, the company and possible current market value.

Thanks in advance.

[Randy]

I acquired a Scientific Lens a couple years ago. It's about 12" FL, give or take, with a water-house slot. All it says on it, beside the manufacture, is "R. Rectl. No.5". Glass is great but the barrel is discolored. I shot some 8X10's with it and they were lousy (I thought). I have made stops for it and am going to do some experimenting with 5X7.
Likewise, I could find very little, if any on the web.

[Louis Pacilla]

Hey Tim and Randy

Here's a couple of adds from Photo Critic 1904 (Portrait outfit/ Anastigmats) . I think I've seen an add for the Scientific lens Co Portrait lens. If I find it I'll post it.

Pretty sure they got into the game very late like the late 1800's maybe even the very beginning of the 1900's . As far as I can tell they probably did not survive the great depression. Not sure about that though.


Not much in the Vade Mecum

Here is the text

Scientific Lens Co., 24, E 21 St, New York, USA.
For an account, see B.J.A. 1905, as the lenses change focus during exposure to give increased depth of field.
This was patented as Patent 02/02/1904; 12/04/1904; 31/05/1904; 18/10/1904. (?USPats.) This has been a
recurring theme and see Dieterich for a later application.
Ocular f5.0 This lens can be used with and without focus change.
Stigmar f6.2 A high grade anastigmat of 4+4 symmetric layout. This was made in 7.25, 12, 17in.
Retinar f7.7 This was an RR for use with and without focus change.
Cosmos Wide angle This was noted as an 6in lens, with rotating aperture plate ('wheel stops') but there is
no further data. (A conjecture is WAR.)

[goamules]

They weren't around long, perhaps 1900 to 1905. Ulrich Nehring bought the Scientific Lens Company and he is known for making some lenses and has a few photographic patents.

[CCHarrison]

First incorporated in Jan 1904....

Nehring was selling lenses starting in the late 1890's under his own name. He published a lens catalog in 1900. He continued to sell under various names until around 1910.

Nehring was involved with the SL Company (supplying them lenses), and patented a lens and assigned it to the SL Co in 1904 (Patent 761390 ). In 1908, there were investigations going on of both the company and Nehring...

From Camera Craft Vol 17, 1910

More "Honest Lenses for an Honest Price"

Months and months ago we learned, through a four-page "list" that costs fifty cents a year, that Nehring had induced the Scientific Lens Company to continue the manufacture of lenses from his formulae and patents. This "Lens Company" must be quite powerless in the face of Mr. Nehring's wonderful persuasive powers. As further evidence along this line, a circular letter, under date of November nineteenth, advises that the photographic department of the Scientific Lens Company, its "plant and formulae." have been sold to Alfred Koehler. Mr. Koehler, we are told, was "selected" by Mr. Nehring as the most desirable successor; and that, "in selecting him as my successor, I feel that I have kept faith with the fraternity." We are not advised as to the name or nature of this "fraternity," possibly because it is obviously unnecessary. Mr. Nehring's wholesouled generosity and his confidence in the existence of a further supply of confiding souls is clearly shown by the reckless manner in which he asks "all my friends and users of my lenses to transfer their confidence to Mr. Alfred Koehler." Observe the lavish prodigality embodied in this request, which, if complied with, leaves Mr. Nehring without even the confidence of his friends, let alone that of the users of his lenses. Pending the printing of a "higher price list," these honest lenses can be obtained at the old honest prices; Mr. Koehler going to the trouble of testing and guaranteeing them, "honest lenses," it would seem, not being above suspicion. We assume that the new prices will, although higher than the present "honest" ones, comply with the standard of honesty enjoyed by the lenses. If any of our readers have any confidence in the Scientific Lens Company, Lens Nehring, or U. Nehring, they will kindly transfer it to Mr. Koehler. Mr. Nehring no longer needs it, and Mr. Koehler is. no doubt, entitled to it under the conditions of the sale.


Dan

[CCHarrison]

And here is your lens....from a 1906 ad in the Photo Beacon # 18 and sold by Nehring's company, called LENS NEHRING

Dan

[Jim Galli]

I had one some years back and it wasn't a petzval at all. Not sure what and memory fails but I do remember it had a cemented pair that had failed and when heated to try to seperate the glass very quickly turned to sand. I think I sold it to Paul Fitzgerald for parts as he was trying to resurrect similar. So much for best glass obtainable et al.

Just one of the hundreds I lost $$$ on.

[Jody_S]

I just received the wide angle, I haven't gotten around to testing it yet. Seems to be a straightforward 2+2 symmetrical layout, not as curved as Protar. Mine has a crack on the outer edge of one interior element, but I don't expect this will affect use at all. It's marked "8x10" only, and I haven't mounted it yet so I don't know about focal length or coverage.

[Mark Sawyer]

Jody: FWIW, I have a Nehring Extra Wide Angle lens for 8x10. About 135mm focal length, and almost certainly a Wide Angle Rectilinear. Very sharp, nicely made, I used to go to it fairly often in my landscape days. I suspect you'll be happy with yours.

I'm not sure what the fuss was about in the old days, but I noticed in Dan's last post (from Marsena Parker) that Nehring apparently didn't advertise, so there may have been some resentment from Camera Craft, which of course relied on advertising for part of its revenue.

[CCHarrison]

The rest of the 1906 Lens Nehring Ad

Nehring appeared to be a hustler if not a crook from some of the insinuations I've read.. and notice how cheap his lenses were.....

I believe all of these lens types were also sold and labeled by the Scientific Lens Co.

Best,
Dan

[lenser]

I really appreciate all the replies and am enjoying the somewhat mysterious quality of the info about the owners. Please keep it coming..
Does anyone have any info about the qualities this actual Len
Thanks.

Tim

[c.d.ewen]

FYI: 714 East 166th St in New York is in the Bronx, an "Outer Borough", i.e., not on Manhattan island. I am far from an expert on the state of manufacturing in NYC at the turn of the century, but would hazard a guess that it was centered in Manhattan and Brooklyn. The Bronx (in my uneducated opinion) was still transitioning from pastoral to residential at that time. It's quite possible for a manufacturing facility to have existed there, but I would wonder, given Nehring's aversion to overhead, whether or not he operated the business out of his home.

Just speculating - don't take any of this as Internet Gospel. I just happened to have lived in da Bronks half a century ago.

Charley

[Jody_S]

From reading all those ads and notices from 100 years ago, I would say it's not a matter of Nehring's lenses being of inferior quality or of bad design, it's just that he was copying all the Zeiss and Cooke designs he could lay his hands on, and under-selling all the the manufacturers who paid royalties for names and had patent licensing agreements. Besides underselling the originals from Europe, of course. He's quite brazen about it all in his ads, his wording is thinly disguised, if at all. Which means that a Scientific Lens Co lens found today could be an excellent copy of a classic design, a poor copy of an average design, and anything in between.

Patent lawsuits (and patent 'trolling' letters and threats, for that matter) are hardly new to the 21st century. Reports from New York manufacturing circles from 150-100 years ago read almost like court reporting.

[Steven Tribe]

At last, an opportunity has presented itself so that I can post some photos of this very rare Scientific Lens Co. "Ocular" Portrait lens. I have not had it in my hands, so can't give an explanation of the various "extras"!