View Camera web site

[steve simmons]

We continue to be criticized for our web site but I am not sure I understand the problem. We upgraded and simplified it in late July. It is now easier to find the free articles, the subscribers' section, the submission guidelines, etc.We add new material to the subscribers' section after every issue and have even pulled old material and added it to the free section to help beginners get started. We modeld the site after a magazine called Art on Paper which was recommended to us by a gentleman in another discussion group.

Can someone explain the problem (I am hoping for a suggestion more than just "More free stuff!").

steve simmons

[Brian Ellis]

I believe the criticism to which you refer didn't come from this forum but rather came from participants in rec.photo.equipment.large-format. So why ask people in this forum to explain the problem when the criticism came from people in another group? They are the ones who can explain the problems they see, how are we supposed to know what those problems are and then explain them to you? If I'm wrong and the criticism to which you refer came from people who participate only in this forum, then why not ask this question by private e mail to them, not to a bunch of people who didn't make the criticisms to which you refer.

This forum has been blessedly free of the incessant arguments, name calling, and general childish bickering involving you and your magazine that has plagued rec.photo.equipment.large-format for years. It would be nice to keep it that way.

[Gem Singer]

Hi Steve.

The problem that I have is the need to use the password included on the magazine package label. The wrapper, with the label attached, usually gets thrown away when I receive the magazine. It's a PITA when I have to sign-in every time I want to access the subscriber's section and I don't know my password, since it changes with every issue. I understand the reasoning behind the method, but I wonder if it is an absolute necessity. It must be a PITA for your staff when subscribers call to ask for their password.

Perhaps the time has come to include an open discussion forum on the View Camera website. Perhaps, the inclusion of this forum, Maybe this entire website? I'll bet Tuan would be open to negotiation.

[David A. Goldfarb]

I have to agree with Eugene about the password issue. It's enough of a barrier that I don't even bother with the website, though I suspect there is something interesting there. Is there a way that we could use the password from the label once and then set up some sort of long-term password, perhaps linked to the length of the subscription so that the password expires when the subscription expires?

[QT Luong]

The View Camera website has improved. However I agree about the password problem. What David suggested can easily be implemented with a number of relatively inexpensive software packages that can be found on the web. For instance I manage subscriptions on my web site using Dreamaccount from http://www.dreamcost.com/ I don't necessarily recommend that particular software. It works mostly OK, but there are bugs. My point is that there are a number of ready-made solutions that would take less than a day to install and customize.

Eugene, we have worked hard to move away from photo.net in order to have a non-commercial site. Even though View Camera is much better matched to our interests than photo.net, I don't think a "move" to viewcamera.com would be welcome. However, we would certainly appreciate it if View Camera reciprocated the link that largeformatphotography.info has to the viewcamera.com site.

[David R Munson]

Really, my only complaint about the site at this point has to do with the password issue, as others have noted. It just seems that there should be a more intuitive, elegant solution out there.

[tim atherton]

all I can say is ditto regarding the password issue. It's a pain in the butt and quite annoying.

I've brought it up with Steve before and he just dismisses the complaint every time and says - oh just email or call us...

Two months in a row my subscription from a subagent in Canada had no passowrd. This month I thought - ah there it is on the back of the envelope must write the down. Only my ever so dear partner threw that "old empty envelope" out before I could...

I can't think of one other site I use which has passwords which adopts such a cumbersome and annoying system, including a new password every two months. I've had an easier time getting into secure sections of the Ministry of Defense system...

My subscription ended with this issue I think, and quite frankly, Steve has just lost a subscriber. I think the money is going to PDN this time around.

[Henry Ambrose]

Another who agrees about the password being a problem although I wonder if its a good idea to require a password at all. I've not seen anything you've put up since calling you months ago to get my password which was tossed with the plastic wrap. My current password does not work and its not worth the hassle to call again.

So, how about just putting the URL at the end of each article when you have extra stuff and let people view it for free. To cheat you they would have to go to the bookstore, read the mag, copy the URL, don't buy the magazine, and then go home to view it - sounds like way too big a hassle to me. I think anyone who is going to cheat will do so anyway. I could give my password to someone and I guess you'd never know it! (I wouldn't) Perhaps you could make the extra web stuff into a great come-on for the print issue. That might spur sales of magazines and subscriptions.

As long as I'm telling you how to run your business (grin) I do suggest you give more free stuff! Post previews to upcoming articles. A few paragraphs and a pic from more than one article might prompt a purchase at the newstand or through subscription. The "sample taste" you are giving away is not enough in my opinion. You have a few books but not enough. Your site does not reach "critical mass" When I walk into a camera store and they have nine different point and shoots, four 35mm SLRs, an old broken view camera with no lens and a few rolls of film on the shelf I don't feel like I've walked into much of a camera store. Contrast that with the experience of walking into a store where you could look at and handle almost any camera you ever read about and buy any accessory or film off the shelf. Which do you think most folks would prefer?

Write me off list if you want, I have more ideas.

[Brian Ellis]

That seems clear enough. The problem is the password.

[Ryan M]

I am a subscriber to CameraArts and ViewCamera and I would just like to say that I really enjoy the issues - even when they don't pertain to the way or what I like to shoot. I used the website for ViewCamera for the first time last week and I actually had the plastic package for the issue. The only problem was that the password was not on the label. I had to email for the information and was promptly replied to in a few hours.



I read the website and was somewhat impressed - being the American consumer that I am though, I wanted more to the web site, Maybe articles that show how a photographer captured a certain shot, not just the equipment used, but the thought process to placement, lighting and decision on what subject matter - the real craft to the image making process. This could be in the form of dissecting a shot. I am sure some people would be bored silly with this, but I am not.

Overall, I want to see more images. This is the one reason I subscribe to Lenswork. The issues are very well done, images are reproduced very very well, and I tend to pick up the issues all the time just to view the pictures again. However, no website like viewcamera though. I do pick up viewcamera over and over, for different reasons though. I check out the articles more for information on processes, gear, ads, and certain photographers' portfolio articles.

The password issue, I think, is the biggest problem with the website though

[steve simmons]

Thanks for the coments. Please remember that the material on the web site is extra stuff we are doing to say thanks to the subscribers. We have not charged any extra for this. With regards to the gentleman in Canada we do supply the distributor with the info and they should be giving it to you. I will check with them about this.

I am open to more ideas. However, more free stuff is not something we will do. I am convinced that some people just want free stuff and become upset when their supply goes dry. They will never do anything to support the supplier of free stuff except to complain when the free stuff runs out.

I will investigate the avenues to make a secure sight and to make the entry to the subscribers' section easier.

Thanks again

steve

[David F. Stein]

Steve, I accept the philosophy and purpose of the site. As such, it should be the best possible way for your subscribers to communicate with your organization-both to make editorial suggestions and for e-commerce: settling subscription issues, buying spinoffs like books, special edition print series, CD compilations and back issues; and signing up for workshops, etc. Then, your web site may pay for itself. It is not an easy matter to resolve and we realize you couldn't emulate Popular Photography or other mass market magazines, on the one hand, or trade journals, on the other, the latter, especially, which put the bulk of content on-site plus adding e-mail newsletters. The more troublesome sites, actually, are those that started out as not-for-profit community efforts and then try to make the transition to commercial. There are many examples of this that we are all familar with. GOOD LUCK

[Witold Grabiec]

Dear Steve,

Currently I am not a subscriber and by now, there is no more reason to touch on the password issue anyway. And I won't comment on the layout, or anything of that sort, as it is purely subjective (although a notch of sofistication would help in my opinion, and Justified text formatting).

Having said that, take a look at the View Camera logo on this page:

http://www.viewcamera.com/books.html

Does this look professional to you? Or like if it were scanned on a cheap yesteryear equipment? You've done a lot of good stuff photography wise, and I couold not believe you could miss it. I think what I'm trying to say is, that as a publisher of such a great magazine like View Camera, you can do a lot better. It simply does not go well with the paper form.

[looker]

oofa,

lots of widows. see what ya mean, wit. which is quite on par with the paper product, so i'm not sure what the prob is. view cam's stock in layout trade is bad breaks, rampant mispellings and typos, garish, ungainly copy blocks and uneven, bastard margins on facing pages(here's a tip fer yer design editors steve, don't allow them to layout facing pages seperately, open both).

seems a little nitpicky. but still, i strive to keep my hands off the contrast controls of my neighbor's tv set when i visit.

doesn't always take, but i try...

me

p.s. yer doing great work steve... keep it up and the rest will follow.

[Andre Noble]

Steve, my VC subscription just ran out. Will renew soon. You should be encouraged, not criticized. It's just "us" after all - all 856 of us worldwide large format fans.

P.S. You want a garish looking photo site. Check out Freestyle.

[Darin Cozine]

Steve, I just checked out the web site, and one hing i immediately did not like was that the articles were in either jpg or acrobat format. First off, choose one format. Second, keep them in the same IE window instead of a pop-up (i hate having to close the window to go back). Personally I hate acrobat, but the jpg's need some tweaking if you are going to use them. In my version of IE, it redices the size of the jpg to the screen size, making it too small to read. It would be better if you put all the pages of the aricles in one html page. You can specify the size of the jpg in the html so that it it big enough to read the text.

-I hope this helps, Darin

[Thomas Young]

My issue is also the password. I have had at least two issues arrive with no password info on the label, the same goesw for Camera Arts. I live in northwestern Wisconsin. My subscription also just ran out, but I plan on renewing soon, as the nearest bookstore that carries Viewcamera is 80 miles drive away.

[steve simmons]

We are listening to your comments and appreciate the time you are taking to make them

Here is some help with the subscriber section

the instructions are on the bottom of the TOC page

user id VCSUB must be in caps and remains the same from issue to issue

The password is a six digit number sequence. This was on your address label. This changes every issue so watch for it. We have been picking someone's birthdate so the numbers will read like a date, for example a previous issue used 080805 which happens to have been my grandmother's birthday. At the moment I can not think of an easier way. To build a system that links to our subscriber database is not possible for the forseeable future.

Acrobat vs. JPG We tried JPG for awhile and people complained it was not sharp enough. All of the new sub material is in the form of an Acrobat file which is becoming very common and is quite readable. To redo every page from the magazine in html is not practical at the moment.

We are looking into a service that would put our magazines electronically on the web. This would be great for overseas readers. I do not know the cost or feasibility of this at the moment.

steve

[David A. Goldfarb]

I get e-mails as a subscriber to _LensWork_. Maybe you could set up a system where you e-mail interested subscribers a link to the subscriber-only content.

[Dan Ingram]

Or -- could you just email the password to subscribers? That would suit me. The password is my only complaint -- otherwise, I love both magazines!

[Rich Long]

Not a complaint, just an observation. Since my subscription to Camera Arts expired a couple of months ago and I've just this week purchased my first 4x5, this discussion prompted me to go the to View Camera website and look at the subscription page. There's a link there to a "special limited time offer". However, the offer expired in October of 2002, 13 months ago! The impression that this gives is not a good one.

Regardless, I'll go back and subscribe to both magazines later today.

[Jean-Louis Llech]

Dear Steve Simmons,
I am a French subcriber to View Camera, and I think it's the best magazine I've ever read on photography. I've told it in an email a few months ago.
It is one moment of joy when I receive the magazine, which is read from the first to the last page.
About the password, as I subscribe through Robert White in England, I have never seen any password on any label.
I used to send you an email to ask for it. I stopped asking for this d... password, as I receive no more answer from View Camera. I don't access this section anymore, and I regret it

A suggestion : It might be better to send your subscribers a password once a year when they subscribe. It might be also a very good alert for people who forget to renew their subscription not to be able to connect to the subscriber's section when the subscription is over.
Best regards
JLL

[John Kasaian]

Steve,

View Camara and Camera Arts are two of the very best photography magazines out there. I am really looking foreward to going to the View Camera conference in Montery in April. Thank you for doing such a terrific job!

[Jeff Dyck]

Hi Steve,

On a tangent --> I have most of the issues of View Camera published over the past 5 or 6 years, but I don't have access to the aforementioned online content on your site. Why? Because I am not a subscriber. I live in Canada and had looked into a subscription to View Camera, but was taken aback when I was informed that it costs me more to subscribe than to pay the cover price at the news stand!! This doesn't strike me as a particularly logical pricing model for any periodical (regardless of the bonus subscriber website content) - one would presume that you would want my subscription. View Camera isn't the only culprit either - I ran into the same scenario with B&W magazine. What gives?

[Ed Candland]

My wife purchased for me both View Camera and Camera Arts from Amazon.com. There doesn't seem to be any six digit numbers on the labels. I e-mailed the first month and recived the number for that month. I have e-mailed twice from the web site to ask why I haven't recieved any more than one copy of Camera Arts when I have now revieved 3 of View Camera, (none with 6 digit numbers) but there has been no reponse.

[Mark Sampson]

Steve, I'll bet it seemed like it would be easy when you started the magazine... I've been a subscriber since 1989 and I have to say you've done a great job. Unlike any other magazine of its quality and longevity VC seems intensely personal, a characteristic I appreciate. So any small quirks are easier to understand and accept. Let's keep moving forward though. Slightly off-topic to this thread, I also appreciate the thoughtful articles about Eliot Porter. That type of writing is all too rare in the 'photographic' press and takes the magazine beyond the mere nuts and bolts, which is always welcome. Press on regardless!

[Witold Grabiec]

Most posters seem to focus on the magazines and I'm with everyone who says that it's a one of a kind quality publication. Something that market needs for sure. I would be the last one to discourage Steve from continuing his venture. However, Steve is asking for input on the web site itself. To rephrase my earlier post let me say it this way:

- I see a web presence for ANY entity as a selling point, mostly due to its universal and instant accessibility

- if its web version does not at least match the paper form, I have a problem with it, this is especially the case for a publication that preaches aesthetics and frequently proves that point with wonderful images

View Camera web site (as much as I like its simplicity) feels cheap from first to last page, it's amateurish, and is a far cry from what it looks like on paper. I have no complaints about the content or scope of topics represented there, just the form of delivery. If one decides to subscribe, based ONLY on what he sees on the web, he's in for a nice surprise. But would there be anyone who would NOT subscribe because of it? This maybe the only question that needs to be answered. If you care for your professional image (and something tells me you do), then I think the site needs an overhaul, from basic formatting, to layout, navigation etc. It does not need a splashy design, to the contrary it calls for a simple yet elegant design.

I'm not saying this to hurt one's feelings. I do see however, a significant editorial disconnection between the magazine and its web form.

No matter what happens to the site, it will not prevent me from buying or subcribing to VC or CA, as long as the content remains solid.

Best Regards.

[Paul Kierstead]

I have been looking around for a good camera magazine with a slant towards LF and fine art.

I have never held "View Camera" in my hands.

I looked at the website and did not subscribe, largely based on the web site. You may think this is awful, but one has to make the decision based on some criterea, and that was pretty much all I had to go on. The web side is a mis-mash of things, OK for a small website, but does not say good aesthetics (or usability) to me.

Now that I have read this thread, I actually have quite a bit of enthusiasm for the magazine and will probably subscribe, but I am indeed one of those who was turned off by the web site since it was all I had to go on.

A web site representing a photography magazine with a strong fine art bent absolutely MUST have great pictures, artistic design, excellent graphic arts and give the viewer the impression that they takes such things seriously.

[Mike Sisk]

I'm a little late at getting to this thread, but I'll comment as a "View Camera" and "Camera Arts" subscriber as well as someone who specializes and developing web sites for publications.

I have to agree with most folks here, the process to log onto the site is cumbersome at best. And -- not to be cruel -- but the design of the site itself doesn't present a very professional appearance. I'm also not fond of PDF-only content. It's better than nothing but having HTML content is better.

First, I'd recommend thinking about what you hope to accomplish with the web site. One of my clients, The New York Review of Books, derives a great deal of income selling online subscriptions to their archives. This, IMHO, is one of the best things a magazine can do for their subscribers -- providing a complete archive (with searching) of their content.

Second, I'd recommend a through analysis of your site's access logs. This can tell you how people use the site and where problems might be happening. Pay special attention to something called the exit summary (i.e. the last page a visitor sees before leaving).

Third, the site must be an integral part of your publishing efforts -- it can't be a poorly-funded second child because it'll show. Frankly, no site is better than a poor one because it'll turn off folks that might otherwise buy the hard copy.

In summary, there's no magic bullet. Your online publishing needs as much thought and work as the hard copy to succeed. But when done right, it provides a wonderful resource to your subscribers as well as a great marketing tool for the printed version.

BTW, I'm not trying to sell anything here -- I'm fully booked as it is -- but if you have any questions please feel free to email me.

[Øyvind Dahle]

To make people buy or subscribe, you have to give away a look at the magazine. My suggestion is to lay out a "hole" issue, to make a hole impression.

The material can be taken from different issues over the years, but it need fresh ads. If the material is still "fresh" after several years, you will also give something to new subscribers. The cost of this may be low, but you might gain much, and it might be pointed at from different photo sites: "for the best magazine, go to VC, look at the "fake" issue and decide yourself"

Øyvind:D

[Jonathan Lee]

Steve,

Ummm, your contact info for Canadians wanting to subscribe is out of date.