Tripod recommendation for Sinar F 4x5

[kevs-2323668]

today I finally dived in and bought a full system from KEH, a 4x5 Sinar F, two lenses, holders...

I was going to get these legs, and I still may:http://www.keh.com/camera/Tripods-Tr...990904660?r=FE

and then see if I even need a head.

That said, tripod legs are one of the items that maybe you would prefer not to buy in VG condition (their term is bargain).

So, does anyone see some legs out there ( of legs/head) a a great rate/ condition? based on a Sinar F 4x5 ---thanks!

[John Kasaian]

Kehs rating system, I've been told, is extremely conservative.

[cdholden]

There are lots of options for legs. For heads, look no further than the Sinar pan/tilt head.

[Frank Petronio]

Sinar Pan Tilt Head with Gitzo 3-series or larger legs in Carbon or Metal.

[adam satushek]

Yes, Sinar pan tilt is the perfect head. I have no doubt about that, probably my favorite piece of equipment for its functionality and simplicity. Mine is fairly beat up and old compared to the rest of my gear and i still prize it.

For legs I agree with Frank. A big Gitzo is the way to go. Carbon if you can afford it, but personally i have only aluminum. A compact G 415 for travel, and a giant 1504 for shooting over fences and when im traveling by car. Both are amazingly solid, I have no complaints.
.....attached are photos of the 1504....sorry i know i just posted them in another thread here tonight...but they seem relevant here too.

[adam satushek]

To the original poster, I couldn't get your link for the legs you are looking at to work. Which ones were they?

And welcome to the Sinar system, I don't think you will regret it.

[Frank Petronio]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gitzo-G340-Systematic-Aluminum-tripod-/160727776446?pt=US_Tripods&hash=item256c1f3cbe#ht_500wt_1401

Something like these, or taller, would be nice for a 4x5 Sinar with the Sinar Pan Tilt Head.

If you intended to do 8x10 or to do a lot of work pointing the camera down - stressing the tripod's stability - then go larger (thicker legs). Always better to have more than too little, unless you are backpacking it.

[Shutter]

If you can't find a Sinar head you might want to take a look at the Manfrotto 229 (3D Super-Pro Head) - it's not too heavy and supports up to 12 kg/26.5 pounds and really reliable!
I've used it for my Sinar F 4x5, Sinar P1 8x10 and my Wehman with the 4"x4" Hex plate 030L.

[rdenney]

Ken, when we talked, I suggested this (just to get it into the record so others responding know what you've already heard): Any beefy set of legs, beefier than the tripod you have now, with just the rail clamp mounted directly to the legs for now. Then, if you discover that you need to point the camera up and down, get a Sinar tilt-head.

With the lenses you have chosen (a modern 90 and 210 for everyone else), you have enough coverage to use the camera movements on your new F to achieve some vertical adjustment. If the level rail needs to be pointed up slightly, just raise the lens standard as needed. This will avoid vertical perspective convergence, too. The Sinar camera will allow you to make side-to-side level adjustments by rotating the rail within the rail clamp, just as you would with a Sinar tilt-head.

The rail clamp, like many large-format camera tripod fittings, uses the same 3/8-16 threaded connection as a tripod head. You can screw the rail clamp down onto the legs, and leave it there. When you want to dismount the camera from the tripod, just loosen the rail clamp handle and pull the camera out of the clamp. Easy, simple, and elegant.

I have used my Sinar rail clamp with a large Arca-Swiss Monoball (using a large Arca plate), a Bogen 3047, a Manfrotto 229, and a Manfrotto 410. If I hadn't already owned them for use with other cameras, I'd have been wasting money on them compared to the Sinar tilt-head.

People have loyalties, including me. There is a strong Gitzo fan club, and well-deserved because of their superior craftsmanship. But I've been using the Bogen 4030 and 3036 legs since the first ads showing David Bogen sitting on one of them (I have four sets now), and even when they are worn and seemingly rickety, they lock down tightly and rigidly because of their design. They are heavy and bulky, but they are also cheap on the used market. The 3036 legs, in particular, are highly adjustable, with lockable and adjustable center braces that will let you put the legs exactly where they need to be for support. That's not an issue for your controlled sets, but it's nice on uneven terrain. The Gitzo doesn't have center braces, and depends on the tightness of its joints to achieve the same rigidity.

Of course, the holy grail for large-format tripod legs are wooden Ries tripods. I'd have one if I could afford it. Wood is nature's composite, combining light weight, strength, stiffness, and good vibration damping. Berlebach is a somewhat less expensive (and less elegantly made) wooden alternative. But they are probably more outdoor tripods than for use in an indoor temporary set.

Rick "congratulations on your new camera" Denney

[kevs-2323668]

thanks all. Sinar pan tilt head, don't think it's out there anywhere and my guess is it's pretty pricy.
Ok Rick, I get the gist of that, but I hope I discover or figure out if I want a head before the first shoot! But if I don't need a head, that would be great. Just not conversant even to know. I think in terms of 35mm, but with 35 on a tripod, with a room with a few people, I generally think I don't tilt the head up and down ( I have a Novoflex & magic ball head)

I called KEH, not sure on quality of bargain... thye say it's 80% or something like that.
What do you think the one on ebay Frank --that or KEH bargain?

[kevs-2323668]

Here is another, says near mint.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gitzo-Classic-320-Series-3-Studex-Performance-Tripod-near-MINT-cond-/290665502576?pt=US_Tripods&hash=item43ad039770

I may be splitting hairs, but curious it near mint is worth the $75 or so more than bargain on KEH
http://www.keh.com/camera/Tripods-Tripods-Legs/1/sku-TR439990904660?r=FE

[Frank Petronio]

Those are good models but I wouldn't pay over $200 for a used metal Gitzo 3-series, a little patience will pay off.

The Sinar head comes up occasionally for $200 and up. Save up and be patient.

KEH Bargain grade stuff can be quite good, sometimes they are just being lazy on their grading and don't want hassles over a cosmetic defect I guess. They have a generous return policy and it is nice to buy from them, pay a little more but have it be hassle-free.

As you can tell from the active buy and sell here, people usually flip stuff on their way to perfection ;-p

Ask Rick, he writes more than me lol.

[tgtaylor]

Here's another tripod & head alternative: Manfratto 475B w/ 329RC4 low-profile pan/tilt.

I purchased the above new from B&H several years ago to use with a Toyo Robos (12lbs) which is handles easily and have also used it with a Toyo 810G (18lbs) with a 3 lb lens attached which it also handles easily. The 475B is still available new at a good price: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/253564-REG/Manfrotto_475B_475B_Professional_Tripod_Legs.html

Thomas

[Dave Jeffery]

"Dave, that looks sweet is that available somewhere at good price now?"

$395 in the For Sale section on this site. http://bigwavedave.tv/Gitzo.html

[John Koehrer]

The one you linked to at KEH for $179. is a 60" max ht.
I'd think it has a flat plate, no column.

[Ari]

Here's another tripod/head suggestion:
Induro AT413 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/655225-REG/Induro_472_413_Alloy_8M_AT413_Tripod.html) and Bogen/Manfrotto 229 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/553888-REG/Manfrotto_229_229_Super_Pro_Head.html).

The Induro is a very well-made Gitzo clone, and the 229 is as tough as they come.

Of course, if you can, get the Sinar Pan/Tilt head; it's a marvel if you own a Sinar.

[Ken Lee]

I have used this (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/index.php#Tripod) Manfrotto tripod/head combination with my Sinar for years: They didn't break the bank, but are fully functional with geared adjustments etc. The official ratings for weight support are conservative (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/Nikkor610Nov2011.html).

Whatever you get, if you're shooting outdoors, consider getting a leveling head (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/index.php#LevelingHead). I could kick myself for not having gotten one earlier, but I didn't even know they existed until I saw a surveyor and got a close look at his (Leica) surveying equipment. Most surveyors levels have a leveling head already built-in (http://www.engineersupply.com/leica-automatic-level-na720.aspx) to the bottom of the level itself.

It's important that the head is level before you try to pan or tilt: Surveyors figured this out a long time ago. If the head isn't level, you pan and tilt at an oblique angle and have to adjust the camera over and over again. You don't want to be trying to level the head with the legs: it takes forever and is a losing battle. A leveling head makes it trivial and instantaneous.

Other manufacturers provide leveling heads too. See Nodal Ninja (http://store.nodalninja.com/categories/EZ%252dLevelers/) for example. They know there's no point making a panorama if the pano head is skewed.

[Peter De Smidt]

I'm glad that Ken likes his 3021, but I don't like them. I bought one, my first tripod purchase, back in about 1990. It was awful. Nothing locked down properly. I had to epoxy the two piece column so it wouldn't spin. The leg locks flexed, and the legs and locks regularly needed to be cleaned or they got very gritty in operation.

One of the photographers I assist for uses 3021s, and he recently got a new one. It's much better than mine is. (I still have it, as my conscience wouldn't let me inflict in on someone else.) In particular, the leg locks have been improved, but it is still loosey goosey compared to a Gitzo. (Yes, I know they're the same company nowadays.)

[kevs-2323668]

thanks guys, I did get a Gitzo a few days ago. I may not even need a head, but if I do, what would be a good one for it? and leveling head too...

Ken thanks for the nice links! I tried to print out your web page, but it did work in firefox, it made one long thin line of text 200 pages.

I Like the leveling head tip,-- thats just a plate or --or don't some heads have it built with them now?

You could put a cheap level onto the camera as well no?

but the level head obviates one from having to worry about the three legs being uneven? that's the real purpose?

On my older Bogen fiber I actually put white markers with white grease pencil to mark points on all the legs.

[rdenney]

thanks guys, I did get a Gitzo a few days ago. I may not even need a head, but if I do, what would be a good one for it? and leveling head too...

If you need a head, get a Sinar tilt head. You'll end up with one anyway, and whatever you buy along the way will be wasted. Ask me how I know--I've used everything on my Sinar from an Arca-Swiss Monoball to a Bogen 3047 to a Manfrotto 229 to a Manfrotto 410. They are all good, but all of them except the 3047 are pushing the price of a Sinar tilt head and for a Sinar camera, that's what works best, hands down.

You will be working in interiors for your project, so you should be able to level up using the legs extended to a set position.

You'll want the torpedo level for side-to-side leveling, which requires rotating the round monorail in the tripod clamp. There should be a small bubble level on the camera, but a torpedo level across the top of the rear standard works if that level is dry or inaccurate (those levels can be adjusted, of course). If you mount the tripod clamp to the legs directly and extend legs to the same length on a flat floor, you should not need to level fore and aft. If you need to turn the camera, just pick it up and turn it.

My advice is use what you have and stop spending money until you've had a chance to play with it a bit. Further needs will emerge, but at this point they should emerge from your experiences, not from everyone else's. What is needed by a landscape photographer on rocky ground is not the same as a guy photographing models in a studio set.

Rick "who learned this the hard way, several times" Denney

[kevs-2323668]

Rick, great info, ok, I'll fire back when/if it seems I need the head....

[Peter De Smidt]

Rick gives very good advice.

Get a Sinar Pan/tilt head. Use it for awhile. I expect you'll find that you don't need a leveling head under it. Those are very nice if you have to do panning, such as with video, high speed action photography, surveying, or stitched panoramics, all things you probably won't be doing with your Sinar.