What to do?

[Louie Devincentis]

Hi everyone.
I am in a dilemma. I am wanting to purchase a large format camera(a 4x5)and I am trying to gather as much information about large forma so I can make an informed decision, the more I research the more confused I get. Hopefully someone can set me straight. I think I will be using the camera for mostly landscape use but I am sure I will also try portraits, architecture, macro too. So far i have studied the Toyo C 4x5 view, the Graflex 4x5 graphic view and the Sinar C4x5 and the Sinar F2 and I am totally confused can anybody help me to decide which camera to go with. I will not hold anybody accountable, I would like a starting point, I know that I will probably change the camera as my experenice increases but I need direction now. Thanks for reading and hoping that someone could help.

Cheers.
Lou.

[E. von Hoegh]

Get an inexpensive monorail, say a Cambo. With any luck, you can get one with lens for less than $300. Use this as your learner, then you can decide.

Edit - The convertable Symmars are undervalued IMHO. As long as the shutter is good, they're a very nice lens. 150 - 210 mm lenses are very common, most any lens in a running shutter will serve you well.

[Jim Galli]

I concur. A Cambo from Ebay and a Caltar 210mm f5.6 lens is a superb combination to test the waters and start getting your sea legs. It's a very forgiving set-up and when you are ready to move to something fancier, you'll get most or all of your investment back.

[Dan Fromm]

Louie, we've all been through this.

There's a law of nature: the first LF camera is always wrong.

And there's another to the effect that the only way to find out what suits you is to get a camera and use it. It will teach you what does and doesn't work for you, and then you'll have a good idea of what to replace it with. Doing is a much better way of learning what suits you than imagining.

The thing to do is get a camera, film holders, etc., and get shooting. Buy used. If you don't pay much above market -- check prices at www.keh.com and completed sales on ebay -- when you decide to replace your first camera you'll lose very little money, might even gain a little.

+1 to E. v H's advice.

[BrianShaw]

+1 to E. v H's advice.

Another +1.

I'm blessed to still be using my first LF camera, a Cambo. Never outgrew it.

[don12x20]

I agree with Jim.

Don't worry about the body -- spend the money on the lens. For the body, just ensure the bellows and body is light tight. Don't worry about base tilt or axis tilts. Make sure it has swings and tilts in front, and preferably on back standard. Rise, shift also... After you've learned more, you can upgrade to a specific camera that might meet your long term needs (rail or field), etc. Make sure the lens has enough coverage so you can play with tilts, swings, shifts and rise/fall at infinity.

Be sure your body has 1x to 2x the focal length of lens for bellows (so for a 210mm lens, you will need 210mm bellows extension for infinity focus, and 2x ...420mm... for 1:1 macro focus. (obviously portraiture falls in between).

regards
Don

[John Kasaian]

You'll have to figure it out for yourself---but thats part of the fun!. If a local college dosen't offer classes with loaner equipment, or theres no LF-er locally who will mentor you your only option, as other have posted, is to get a budget camera in good working condition & a decent lens and have at it. You'll soon be able to formulate what works for you (and be warned you may change your mind again in a few years!) In the meantime you'll be making images and learning how it all works. I suggest starting by reading Simmon's Using The View Camera.
Talk to Jim at Midwest Photo---if you can't find any gear locally or on eBay(which is a gamble) he can likely put together a kit within your budget. There are also often good deals right here in the "for sale" section and at Keh.

[Alan Gales]

Monorails can make a great cheap first large format camera. They are also easier to learn camera movements on.

If you buy a cheap used monorail for your first camera and later want something different you can usually sell it for close to what you originally paid.

You may end up keeping it even if you decide a folding field camera is what you really want. Monorails make great portrait and still life cameras.

Most of the cheaper folding 4x5 field cameras do not have a lot of bellows draw. My Tachihara has only 13" so I can't close focus a 300mm lens. It's no problem for landscape but sucks for portraiture. That's why I also own a Sinar P monorail.

[cyrus]

Make a list of what special features each model has, and figure out how essential these features are. Basically they're all just 2 standards with a bellows between them, a groundglass back and a lensboard.

Geared movements and revolving backs are nice but not required, and heavier cameras are harder to carry into the filed but are more stable on tripods.

I started out with a $150 Calumet Cc400 and it was everything I needed, in retrospect.

[Jeff Dexheimer]

A quick rundown on my experience. I was in the same boat you are currently in only a few months ago. I read everything I could get my hands on and felt more confused than anything after reading.

I finally decided on a Tachihara folding camera. It was a beautiful little camera with a 150 mm lens three film holders. I paid $700 for it. I loved it at first, but it wasn't long before I realized I was missing out on movements that I knew cheaper cameras could provide. I sold it and bought a Sinar F2.

That camera was great as well. In a way I wish I still had it. Still, I knew I could save money by trading in the sinar for the Cambo. Ultimately I am glad I did. Not that the Sinar wasn't an amazing camera, it was. I wanted something inexpensive with all the movement I could ever ask for. My current Camera system is the Cambo and a Schneider Lens I bought off KEH and Adorama. I think I paid less than $330 for both. I am very happy with both. I can imagine, when my budget grows I will get something else or somethings, but for now I love the gear that I have.

Don't forget all the other gear you need to buy. You start with the camera and lens. That will run you $300+ depending on what route you go. (of course its always possible to go cheaper, and many do so with success). Then there film holders, lensboard, lightmeter, loupe, focusing cloth, film, tripod, lens filters. developing supplies such as chemicals, tanks and trays, negative holders, a scanner. I am sure the list goes on. I am sure I am forgetting things, but that's about all I have.

Whatever you do, I recommend starting cheap and build from there.

[Peter De Smidt]

Of those listed, the best all-around camera, imo of course, is the Sinar F2. It's a very capable camera, and it's part of a huge system with lots of reasonably priced used items. Short rails, bag bellows, extension rails....

The Sinar C adds a really heavy rear standard. It's great for studio work, but not very light for landscapes. The nice thing about Sinar, though, is you can always add a P rear standard down the road. You'd then have an F2 and a C! (The Sinar C is an F front standard with a P rear standard.)

If you purchase wisely, it's unlikely that you'd lose much, if any, money selling the camera down the road if you decide it doesn't work for you.

Toyo's are also very fine cameras, although used stuff is not quite as plentiful as Sinar. I have an AX, which is a metal field camera. I'm very happy with it and use it for everything LF appropriate. It's sturdier and more compact than the Sinar, but the Sinar is more flexible, especially with very wide angle or very long lenses.

[Jim Jones]

[QUOTE=John Kasaian;840619] . . . I suggest starting by reading Simmon's Using The View Camera. . . . .
QUOTE]

Or any of several other books on the subject. View Camera Technique by Leslie Stroebel may be the most thorough, but early editions don't cover many newer cameras and material. Ansel Adams wrote several books that are still valuable Way Beyond Monochrome by Ralph Lambrecht and Chris Woodhouse is magnificant for black & white photography. You can get answers to almost any question on this site, but the right books have information that we never think to ask for.

[Louie Devincentis]

Thanks everybody for weighing in and a special thanks to Dan Fromm with his "Law of Nature" rule, made me laugh. I think I a going to put my quest on hold for the weekend because tomorrow I am going to see a Omega D2 enlarger. I was told that it is in very good condition(heard that before) and who knows perhaps this will spur me to throw caution to the wind and purchase a 4x5 by months end. Thanks again to the gang here.
cheers.
Louie