Eizo Monitor

[Lenny Eiger]

Well, it finally happened, one of my Apple monitors just up and died. I've been waiting for it to do this. It should have been nicer and given me a couple more months.

So, I'm looking at an Eizo. They are very expensive. I should have one, however. I do a lot of printing...

I have been looking at the 24 inch. There's a CG243W and a CG245W. The 245 is a bit more expensive. The only difference I can see is the Preset Color Modes now has Adobe 1998...

Do those of you that have these know the difference? Is one just a later version?

Tx,

Lenny

[Daniel Stone]

Eizos are great, but the top of the line NEC monitors are, IMO, totally on par with the eizos, at 1/3-1/2 the cost.

-Dan

[bdkphoto]

Eizos are great, but the top of the line NEC monitors are, IMO, totally on par with the eizos, at 1/3-1/2 the cost.

-Dan

+1 on the NEC.

[Lenny Eiger]

Either of you guys driving this with a Mac? Guess I want to be very sure that these things are all they say they are. (Not doubting either of you, of course...)
Do they have hardware calibration? Is there any down side at all?

I saw one of the 24 inch ones for $750. That's way better than $2770 for the Eizo... I could use the 2K.... to pay bills.

Thanks all for the help...

Lenny

[Bruce M. Herman]

I have the PA271W-BK-SV, which is now a little over a year old, and am very happy with it. It does support calibration. I recommend purchasing Spectraview with the display. It will include a spectraphotometer. I drive mine with a Mac Pro from late 2009 on which I've had Leopard, Snow Leopard and now Lion. NEC doesn't always have a new version of Spectraview available at the same time that Apple moves to a new OS, but they get there soon enough. Tech support has been by email and has been very good.

I wrote a review for the Alaska Apple Users Group. You can read it here:

http://akappleug.org/2011/02/nec-multisync-pa271w-bk-sv-27-lcd-display-with-spectraview-ii/

Bruce

[georgl]

Always go with the Eizos - get one used if you want to save money - reliability is no issue.
The 245 is self-calibrating if I'm not mistaken.
Eizo has it's own production in Japan - the NECs are made by Chinese OEMs with lower standards (propably the same one who made your Apple).

[Brian K]

I have 2 Eizo's- the CG 210 and CG211, they are simply the best. Eizo has other monitors that are superb, but not quite as good. I bought the 210 and 211 even though wider screens were available from Eizo because this model had their best and most accurate screen.

Just about any of the color edge series monitors will serve reliably and with consistent and accurate color. Once you use them you won't go back. To be honest Lenny I'm surprised you haven't used them all along. They are far better than the Apple monitors.

[SW Rick]

I have the PA271W-BK-SV, which is now a little over a year old, and am very happy with it. It does support calibration. I recommend purchasing Spectraview with the display. It will include a spectraphotometer. I drive mine with a Mac Pro from late 2009 on which I've had Leopard, Snow Leopard and now Lion. NEC doesn't always have a new version of Spectraview available at the same time that Apple moves to a new OS, but they get there soon enough. Tech support has been by email and has been very good.

I wrote a review for the Alaska Apple Users Group. You can read it here:

http://akappleug.org/2011/02/nec-multisync-pa271w-bk-sv-27-lcd-display-with-spectraview-ii/

Bruce

Lenny,

+1. I have the same 27" NEC (with MBP 2010) and it's great- get the calibration device unit. You'll need to buy an adapter from Apple for about $100 to use with MBP (and maybe others).

Have also seen good reviews of 24" LaCie: this month's Shutterbug (thanks Barnes & Noble reading room!) has a review of "LaCie 324i LCD Display A Top Display For Serious Photographers" by David Brooks. Think its about $1000-1100.

Rick

[bob carnie]

I am using a Lacie 526 and a Mac monitor in Tandem.The Lacie for imaging and the Mac for my pallets and Lightroom, we are about to hook up a third monitor , big and cheap to show all the channels and possible variations. I looked at Eizo and decided to give the Lacie a try, never looked backed or thought it was a bad decision.

What special things are some of you looking for that a NEC or Lacie cannot deliver?

In my world all imaging boils down to the L - numbers and making a good first test print. If someone here is saying that they get better results because of using an Eizo I tip my hat to them as they may have found the silver bullet.

[Colin Graham]

You might consider the Flex Scan series. I got a 27" SX2761 a while back and it's pretty nice. On paper (at the time) it appeared similar to the 27" Color Edge - 97% abode RGB coverage, 178 viewing angle, IPS panel. Same contrast ratio and response time. It was about $1400 cheaper the the 27" color edge, more in line with the NEC spectraview monitors. Mine has no built in calibration, but the thing simply doesn't drift, or hasn't yet anyway.

Anyway, not sure how the newer models compare, but it might be worth looking into.

[Lenny Eiger]

Just about any of the color edge series monitors will serve reliably and with consistent and accurate color. Once you use them you won't go back. To be honest Lenny I'm surprised you haven't used them all along. They are far better than the Apple monitors.

It's just timing.... I also use a dVinci system for color which has additional color cartridges, orange and green (hexachrome), plus 4 Cone inks in the set. Photoshop knows nothing about hexachrome, so color is an approximation no matter what I do. No soft-proofing for me... Basically, I spent the money on the printer... and the scanner. Frankly, I didn't know how bad the Apple monitors would be. It's the only Apple product I have ever really hated.

I think its time for the Eizo... however, there are some that say go for it and others that say the NEC is just fine. It seems hard to quantify the difference. I understand that everyone loves their purchase (with their hard earned cash). I won't want to spend unnecessarily. But I do want the top of the line - because I am targeting that kind of work, vs a more relaxed studio. So, I guess I would really love to quantify this...

I appreciate everyone comments,

Lenny

[Ed Kelsey]

Check NEC refurbished, a 27" PA271W for $639. You'll have to pay extra for the Spectraview kit but it's still a killer deal. Yes I have one and love it.

http://www.necdisplay.com/category/desktop-monitors?Refurbished=1

[Leonard Alecu]

It's just timing.... I also use a dVinci system for color which has additional color cartridges, orange and green (hexachrome), plus 4 Cone inks in the set. Photoshop knows nothing about hexachrome, so color is an approximation no matter what I do. No soft-proofing for me... Basically, I spent the money on the printer... and the scanner. Frankly, I didn't know how bad the Apple monitors would be. It's the only Apple product I have ever really hated.

I think its time for the Eizo... however, there are some that say go for it and others that say the NEC is just fine. It seems hard to quantify the difference. I understand that everyone loves their purchase (with their hard earned cash). I won't want to spend unnecessarily. But I do want the top of the line - because I am targeting that kind of work, vs a more relaxed studio. So, I guess I would really love to quantify this...

I appreciate everyone comments,

Lenny

Unlike Apple (8 bit/channel) Eizo has 12 bit/channel. This is a huge difference which was easily seen when I compared my EIZO CG241W with a regular good monitor (Apple).

LA

[Ben Hopson]

You are right Lenny. We are biased toward what we choose to spend the $'s on. I went with the NEC 2690WUXi2 based on what I had read about it and the fact that I could not afford to pay over twice as much for an Eizo. I don't know how the two compare, but I have been very satisfied with the NEC's performance. I calibrate with the NEC
SpectraviewII software and i1 pro. I use the NEC on a 2009 MacPro and OS 10.6.8.

Ben

[adam satushek]

"But I do want the top of the line - because I am targeting that kind of work...."

I think this is an important statement. While I personally have a 26in NEC (discontinued 2690wuxi2) and really like it, there is something to be said for the "appearance" of having an Eizo, especially in Lenny's case. Everyone, including his clients will probably know that Eizo's are supposed to be the best and when you hire someone to scan or print for you that confidence can be important.

As an example, I worked for a commercial photography studio for years, and we would sometimes rent a camera just for appearances. It seems silly when you can do a job just fine with a 5Dmkii or 1dsmkii that you own to rent another MFDB for $300/day. But when your client is walking around the set with their personal 5Dmkii and using it for snapshots...you look much more professional with a camera that is a significant step above.

That being said, I personally think ill stick to NEC. They are cheaper, and with their spectraview software and and i1-2 I am perfectly happy. I've even thought of getting their new 30in and using my current 26in for pallets...

I'm just acknowledging that in certain cases, and Lenny's might be one, having equipment that is widely recognized as being the 'best' can be valuable.

just my opinion.

[Leonard Alecu]

Eizo ColorEdge has 12bit/channel (look-up table) and 16-bit internal processing for grayscale rendering. For black and white photography this make a huge difference.
LA

[Frank Petronio]

If you are having client visits then appearances matter... I remember when I had my early 1990s imaging studio, I dropped $3K on a Radius Pressview, the first calibrated, imaging-specific monitor... and the first Art Director who sat next to me kept sticking his greasy fingertips on the screen when he was explaining what he wanted. I asked him not to but he'd just ignore me. I wanted to kill that guy... A few years later, when agencies finally bought Photoshop-capable machines, all these guys would hire you so they could pick your brain and learn how to copy your techniques. I actually put a second desk behind me to discourage them from cozying up next to me.

I much preferred the video editing suite set up of sticking the client behind you on the leather couch with inebriates. Bring up for proofs, keep em 5-6 feet away from the screen. Not that backseat drivers are much fun but it's better than having "co-pilots".

[Brian K]

It's just timing.... I also use a dVinci system for color which has additional color cartridges, orange and green (hexachrome), plus 4 Cone inks in the set. Photoshop knows nothing about hexachrome, so color is an approximation no matter what I do. No soft-proofing for me... Basically, I spent the money on the printer... and the scanner. Frankly, I didn't know how bad the Apple monitors would be. It's the only Apple product I have ever really hated.

I think its time for the Eizo... however, there are some that say go for it and others that say the NEC is just fine. It seems hard to quantify the difference. I understand that everyone loves their purchase (with their hard earned cash). I won't want to spend unnecessarily. But I do want the top of the line - because I am targeting that kind of work, vs a more relaxed studio. So, I guess I would really love to quantify this...

I appreciate everyone comments,

Lenny

Lenny, if money is little or no object, and what is required is the most accurate screen then an Eizo is the way to go. You are an imaging professional, if anyone really requires the best image quality repro and smoothest tonal gradation it's an imaging professional. Especially as you work on other people's images.

PS is hexachrome blind, but I think there's a PS work around with that using multi channel. Nevertheless, when I put a print from my epson 9900, also a hexachrome printer, on my Just reflective viewer and compare it to the same Image on the Eizo, the match is pretty perfect.

In reference to Leonard, I only do B&W and because the smoothness of gradation is supper critical for me, that's why I went with the Eizos.

[Peter Langham]

Lenny, I'm in Napa and have the NEC PA24w if you want to check it out.
Peter

[Lenny Eiger]

Lenny, I'm in Napa and have the NEC PA24w if you want to check it out.
Peter

Peter, That's avery nice offer. Thank you. I think, given the comments that some have made, especially about b&w, that I should go with the Eizo... I have had enough almost good monitors. I think the NEC is probably 95% there and if I was just doing this for me, I might do that, but I should probably just bite the bullet and get what I need. I do a lot of b&w and if it can help there, it will be worth it...

A guy who likes photography - and drumming. We should meet. Why don't you come visit one of these days. I'm right off of Lakeville... could be on your way somewhere.

BTW, The event that killed my monitor was some event. It also blew out the directories on my main machine so I had to fsck it, and it appears to have killed the power supply on my secondary machine. That's three separate devices.... (And somehow the pilot light on the water heater also went out altho' I really can't imagine how that could be related.) Apparently, there have been major solar flares over the past couple of days...

When it rains, it pours...

Lenny

[Peter Langham]

Lenny, I'd love to get together, check out your set up and talk music and photography.
Lets plan on it.

Peter

[Ivan J. Eberle]

My experience has been that the backlighting tubes get out of RGB adjustment range within a few years when you run an LCD 24/7. I'd recommend the latest top line NEC or Sony or ____ with the same IPS tubes for 1/3 the cost -- and then count on replacing it every 2-3 years. You're still going to need to do that with an Eizo, too, but may be more reluctant to do so considering the greater expense.

[Lenny Eiger]

Well, I ordered the Eizo. Decided to let everyone know their work will be viewed on a new Eizo... a 27 inch one. Found a price that was only $300 more for the bigger one, so I went for it... I am sure the NEC would be great as well...
Thanks for everyone's assistance in helping me make this decision.

Lenny

[Daniel Moore]

I picked up an EIZO CG-18 in 2003 and am still getting excellent validation results from it. Even though it's gamut is smaller than most modern IPS displays, it actually has a slightly better response in the dark blues than my 2 yr. old wide gamut EIZO CG-241W.
At one point I had purchased a used EIZO CG-19 and it died shortly thereafter. It was a few months out of the 5 year warranty but EIZO replaced the panel in it for free.

[Lenny Eiger]

Eizo update.

This beautiful thing arrived on my doorstep today. I must say its crisp and clean.... There are so many adjustment, utilities and controls - its overwhelming. I need to get started so I can finish what I am supposed to be doing... correcting these 15 scans I did.

I have a few questions. Wondering if one of you experts out there has a few minutes to assist me on the phone... you can PM me or email me at eiger@eigerstudios.com.

TIA

Lenny

[Don Dudenbostel]

I use a LaCie 724 and 324. I have mixed feelings about their LCD and LED monitors after using them for a few years. I do commercial work and color is always critical. I purchased a 324 three years ago when the last of my LaCie CRT units died. Those were excellent monitors. I used the 325 until mid 2011 when the power supply fried. At that time I purchased a 724 and Lacie replaced the 324 even though it was out of warranty. The 324 arrived and has worked perfectly and calibrated perfectly but I an now in my 4th 724 and think I finally got a good one. The first was bad straight out of the box with inconsistent color across the screen. Number 2 worked for a couple of months and then the color became inconsistent across the screen and could not be calibrated properly. Number 3 was bad out of the box and #4 has worked and calibrated properly with no problems.

Customer service was great initially. It through a series of errors in shipping on their part the became very rude and difficult. The issue was they sent expired return FedEx tickets four times. No one in customer had a clue of what to do with the exception of one supervisor I finally got through to. I did learn from a one person the 724 has had serious issues and has been discontinued.

When I need a new monitor I will be looking at the Eizo and not Lacie.

[Lenny Eiger]

When I need a new monitor I will be looking at the Eizo and not Lacie.

Don,
LaCie has had a very spotty history. I have 4 - 2 TB drives sitting on the floor, just waiting to be thrown out. (And another two that I have already tossed.) They have all failed. Initially, they were willing to send out new power supplies, then they wanted me to pay for them. Then the directories got blown, and there is no way to recover the data, as it is a spanned RAID drive (2 disks).

They were cheap and I only used them for backup, that's how I justified the purchase. What was I thinking!!?

I won't buy anything from LaCie again unless there is no other choice.


Lenny

[Brian K]

Eizo update.

This beautiful thing arrived on my doorstep today. I must say its crisp and clean.... There are so many adjustment, utilities and controls - its overwhelming. I need to get started so I can finish what I am supposed to be doing... correcting these 15 scans I did.

I have a few questions. Wondering if one of you experts out there has a few minutes to assist me on the phone... you can PM me or email me at eiger@eigerstudios.com.

TIA

Lenny



Lenny, congrats on the purchase. Did you already get your questions answered?

[Frank Petronio]

Ditto LaCie sells the cheapest crap in nice cases.

[Daniel Moore]

The first few rounds of 1+ terabyte hard drives from all makers suffered higher than usual failure rates. The current crop aren't much better, they just seem not to last as long as the smaller capacity drives. LaCie does indeed make a fine case, often with very good heat dissipation and quiet fan. As long as it wasn't the enclosure's controller board that went bad it's not at all difficult to replace the drive(s) inside with a new one of similar capacity. Replacing one with another of significantly higher capacity may be more of a crapshoot due to controller compatibility but certainly worth a shot, you can always buy a different enclosure if it doesn't work. Rosewill makes my favorite these days, the 3.5" enclosure with 80mm fan, either USB2 or USB3. The prices of the new LaCie drives make this an attractive option. Clear instructions for each type can be found on the net with little effort. In any case, buying hard drives at this point is an idea best put off until the prices return to normal, hopefully in a few more months. Thailand's flooding of their factories (not Seagates apparently, but I'm a Western Digital man myself) really jacked em up.

[Lenny Eiger]

Lenny, congrats on the purchase. Did you already get your questions answered?

No, actually. It seems to indicate that you can use both channels, DVI and mini-display ports to drive the monitor and this would be better. Some extended range...? However, I have another monitor plugged in as feel (for the tools). Can it really do two ports for the Eizo and another for the other screen? How would I know if it worked?

That's just one... for example...

I'm driving this with an ATI Radeon 5870 1024 Megs RAM video card on an Intel Mac Pro 2x2.4 GHZ Quad Core Intel Xeon, if that helps.

TIA,

Lenny

[Daniel Moore]

The individual inputs on the monitor are designed to handle separate input sources, switchable from the button on the front panel, not as a dual channel single source input signal.
For the CG275: "When the signal is switched, the active input port name appears at the top right corner of the screen."

[Brian K]

No, actually. It seems to indicate that you can use both channels, DVI and mini-display ports to drive the monitor and this would be better. Some extended range...? However, I have another monitor plugged in as feel (for the tools). Can it really do two ports for the Eizo and another for the other screen? How would I know if it worked?

That's just one... for example...

I'm driving this with an ATI Radeon 5870 1024 Megs RAM video card on an Intel Mac Pro 2x2.4 GHZ Quad Core Intel Xeon, if that helps.

TIA,

Lenny

Daniel has it right. You can run this monitor off of two computers at the same time. there's a switch on front that allows you to A/B between the computers. You do not need to use both inputs if you are only using one computer. Your video card easily supports this monitor with one cable.

Also make sure that when it comes time to calibrate the monitor that you use the Color Navigator software that comes with the monitor. Do not use any other calibration software on this monitor.

[Lenny Eiger]

Also make sure that when it comes time to calibrate the monitor that you use the Color Navigator software that comes with the monitor. Do not use any other calibration software on this monitor.

Thanks, guys. I assume there is no reason anyone would want to hook up the EyeOne to this monitor, either, the built in one probably works even better, correct?

I am also curious about the target stuff. It seems to indicate that I could calibrate based on a profile. I have a profile that I use with my dVinci, which is based on a 12 color hexachrome setup. Photoshop can't do hexachrome soft proofing, so I do some guessing. There was a utility for it, but it doesn't work that well. I am wondering if I can use a profile setup (hopefully that I can switch out of for use with my b&w printer) that would tune the monitor closer than using the Adobe RGB?

I have only read the manual twice so far... I have a lot of experimenting to do. It seems there ought to be a book on doing all the things this device can do...

TIA,

Lenny

[Brian K]

Thanks, guys. I assume there is no reason anyone would want to hook up the EyeOne to this monitor, either, the built in one probably works even better, correct?

I am also curious about the target stuff. It seems to indicate that I could calibrate based on a profile. I have a profile that I use with my dVinci, which is based on a 12 color hexachrome setup. Photoshop can't do hexachrome soft proofing, so I do some guessing. There was a utility for it, but it doesn't work that well. I am wondering if I can use a profile setup (hopefully that I can switch out of for use with my b&w printer) that would tune the monitor closer than using the Adobe RGB?

I have only read the manual twice so far... I have a lot of experimenting to do. It seems there ought to be a book on doing all the things this device can do...

TIA,

Lenny

Lenny it sounds like Eizo has changed the calibrating set up. My Eizos require an external photospectrometer. The way the color navigator software works on my monitors is that I set 6500K, 2.2 Gamma and 100 lumins. The Eizo techs have told me to set the lumins lower, like 80-90, but it just seems too dark, and the standard today for a monitor seems to be around 100.

[8x10 user]

I purchased a lacie 730 about a year ago and I am very happy with the purchase. Its a beautiful pixel perfect monitor without a flaw. I have also purchased 2 samsung XL24 which the lacie was born from and they are nowhere as the quality of the LACIE.

All of the samsung versions seem to have issues reddish blacks, were not "pixel perfect" and had issues with the monitor being off level. Lacie includes a better calibrator (rebranded Eye-1), and much better profiling software. The lacie is able to self calibrate but you can also use the software for calibration and profiling of all of your other monitors. The software is simple but allows for advanced control and offers some cool side features. The LACIE monitor is hardwired with sRGB, Adobe RGB, emulated CRT, and custom calibration settings.

One time I had to call in when I misplaced the CD and they sent me a link to download the software again (~$300 value). Dealing with the company on the phone was the best customer service experience I've had... I felt like they would have offered food and a drink if they could get it through the phone.

I guess samsung dropped the XL line so lacie is no longer offering wide gamunt separate RGB backlit LED color reference monitors. The new stuff from LACIE and EIZO supports 10-bit color through display port which would be great for black and white... But why cant you get that and ~130% NTSC Gamut (LACIE 730? And what happened to the 30" color reference monitors?

I suspect that Lacie offers a difference customer support experience for their color reference monitors then their harddrives.

I have not had an experience with Eizo, but lacies monitors are great. Eizo is probably just as good, maybe better.