Hermagis lens

[vitality]

Found 8" tall Hermagis brass lens, without cut for waterhouse stops, with r&p on top of the lens and without S/N. Seller doesn't know about FL.

About waterhouse and R&P - as I know it was normal for early models... But still have doubts, this lens was for cameras, or could it be a magic lantern lens? Did Hermagis produce big brass lenses for magic lanterns (was there any at all from another manufacturers in this size)?
All of lenses (what I've seen) have S/N above Hermagis logo, but this one is missing...

[Geoffrey_5995]

How about a picture? Hermagis made RR's and also a Globe lens that looks like an RR but the formula is a Globe like the Harrison & Schnitzer. This Hermagis had an internal aperture with three holes that was activated by turning the lens shade.This lens had not slot for Waterhouse stops. Could you possibly have this lens?

[alex from holland]

I have a large hermagis which does't have a serialnumber, but it is dated on the glass. I assume they did that on the very early lenses. A pictue would be great indeed.

Here you can find mine : http://collodion-art.blogspot.com/2011/06/great-find-at-bievres.html

[vitality]

Geoffrey_5995: No, it's looks like regular petzval lens with R&P.


I have a large hermagis which does't have a serialnumber, but it is dated on the glass. I assume they did that on the very early lenses. A pictue would be great indeed.

Here you can find mine : http://collodion-art.blogspot.com/2011/06/great-find-at-bievres.html

Thank you for answer. If I manage to get it, I'll post some pictures of it.

[vitality]

So, here is french beauty. :)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/55245071/Hermagis%20petzval/lens.jpg

R&P on the top.
No serial number.
And I found slot for w/h inserts. Cut is only in main body and it is possible to use it only if lens is fully extended. Inner "wall" for w/h stops is made from alu, not from brass and wasn't attached well (when I was cleaning it just came off). So could it be that somebody just made upgrade (modification), to use waterhouse stops?

Here comes markings on glass (I attach images, because it is not clear what digits are there).

Front lens: "Hermagis a Paris 526 - 474 3"
(526 & 474 - FL of elements?)
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/55245071/Hermagis%20petzval/doublet.jpg

Rear lens (flint): "Hermagis a Paris 539 - 3"
(539 - FL of flint?)
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/55245071/Hermagis%20petzval/flint.jpg

Crown not signed.

Well, no serial nr, no year of production. Or could it be that digit "3" is serial nr?
Did only approx. measurment of FL it's around 11-12", which makes it ~ F/3,5 (80mm glass diameter). So possible "no 3" stands for F nr. of lens?

If somebody has some info, would be nice to hear.
Thank you!

[goamules]

With the knob on the top (lettering is always upright), and not originally cut for stops, it's an early one. But I don't know when Hermagis started. They often have strange numbers on the glass edges, which I have never figured out. Sometimes a date, and often "Hermagis" also.

[CCHarrison]

Fairly certain Hermagis started in 1854. Based on this source http://www.oldphotographiclenses.com/hermagis.html

and the earliest reference I can find is in an 1855 mention in Traité de photographie sur Collodion By Désiré Van Monckhoven.

Dan

[alex from holland]

What info is engraved ?
The one i found, which is dated 1856, says Hermagis Opticien Rue de Rambuteau 18

[Jim Galli]

I don't see enough glass to make pictures! It's a pretty door stop unless both rear glasses are present.

[vitality]

I don't see enough glass to make pictures! It's a pretty door stop unless both rear glasses are present.
All glass is present (1 doublet and 2 at the rear), I just didn't take picture of crown. Glass condition is very good, no dings, no scratches at all, just tiny line of separation on the doublet, which not visible when glass is put in lens.

[vitality]

What info is engraved ?
The one i found, which is dated 1856, says Hermagis Opticien Rue de Rambuteau 18

On glass:
Front element: Hermagis a Paris 526 - 474 3
Flint: Hermagis a Paris 539 - 3
Looks like crown was to thin to write something on it.

Lens barrel, like usually:
HERMAGIS
Opt'n Fab't
Brevete s.g.d.g.
Paris

CCHarrison, goamules Thank you for info.

[Jim Galli]

That's a beauty! Lucky you.

[alex from holland]

well, it's not that usually.
I have a few lenses which don't have that engraving but only hermagis and the street in paris.
But beside of that. It's a fine lens. At the moment i even prefer Hermagis instead of my Dallmeyers.

[alex from holland]

Fairly certain Hermagis started in 1854. Based on this source http://www.oldphotographiclenses.com/hermagis.html

and the earliest reference I can find is in an 1855 mention in Traité de photographie sur Collodion By Désiré Van Monckhoven.

Dan

Dan,

i have a small book/brochure which says that hermagis was making lenses already in 1845. This together with Wallet.
Is says : Maison fondée a Paris en 1845, Par hermagis 33 quai de L'horloge

Alex

[CCHarrison]

Dan,

i have a small book/brochure which says that hermagis was making lenses already in 1845. This together with Wallet.
Is says : Maison fondée a Paris en 1845, Par hermagis 33 quai de L'horloge

Alex

Hmmmm... would be news to me.... google shows no references early than the 1850's... I might question the book - perhaps a typo ? 1845 rather than 1854 ? When was the book published?

Anyone else have a reference in the 1840's?

thanks
Dan

[maurits]

Dan, besides old brochures there is another booklet with an example of the Wallet lens Alex is referring to:

1839 1939 Un Siecle d'Objectifs Photographiques Francais
Hermagis Opticiens 1845-1934
By: Patrice H. Pont and Jean Loup Princelle
Dossier Collector - Le Reve Edition ISBN 2-9522521-6-5
No.5

Le Reve has a website (lereveedition.com) but you will not find the Hermagis booklet there. It was a limited edition of only 100 books. 29 pages for about 30 euro's. It has probably been sold out for about a year. I think it was published by the end of 2010 or the beginning of 2011. I bought the last booklet (no 101!) in March 2011.

http://mauritsbollen.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/hermagis-book-03.jpg

Anyway, according to the authors Hermagis could have been either founded in 1845 or in 1855. 1845 may have been the start of Hyacinthe Hermagis' cooperation with Jean-Baptiste Wallet. At least one lens (a Daguerrean achromat) from this duo is signed Wallet & Hermagis Opticiens, Quai de l'Horloge 33 in Paris. While 1855 may have been the year when Hermagis started a firm solely under his own name at Rue Rambuteau in Paris.

I am not really convinced by d'Agostino's 1854 date for Hermagis in the book you are referring to (though I have not held the book in my hands as yet). Jean-Baptiste Wallet opened his Paris offices in 1820 on the Quai de l'Horloge 73. According to d'Agostino, Wallet's son in law Eugene Derogy started working at Wallet's in 1848 and became manager there in 1851. Later, Wallet effectively became Derogy and their registered address was the same as the address of Wallet & Hermagis, Quai de l'Horloge 33.

In later Derogy catalogs you will find that the Derogy company claims to have been founded in 1820, which in fact was when Wallet started in Paris. As in: Derogy Opticiens, fondee en 1820, Ancienne Maison Wallet. I think Hermagis did the same thing with the 1845 date. Whether 1845 as the year of establishment was set by Hyacinthe Hermagis, Jules Fleury-Hermagis, H.P. du Motel or Paul Guillaume (later successors), I do not know. The fact is that many Hermagis catalogs state that Hermagis was founded in 1845. As in Etablissements Hermagis, Maison Fondee a Paris en 1845 par Hermagis.

http://mauritsbollen.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/hermagis-1845-2.jpg

Logic dictates that the Wallet & Hermagis lens was made before Eugene Derogy became seriously involved in Wallet. Wallet was an important lens maker, but only in the very early days. He worked with Chevalier for example. If you look at the Wallet & Hermagis achromat it looks distinctively older than other achromats which are signed Hermagis only (the early Hermagis achromats without serial numbers, not the later ones with the large Hermagis logo).

There are no reasons to believe that Wallet & Hermagis (as co-workers) and regular Hermagis (the company) somehow existed at the same moment in time, let alone at the same time that Derogy as a brand name came into existence. And surely not at the same address. I am guessing that Derogy simply marginalised Hermagis' role at Wallet. Either because the new boss was Wallet's son in law and Hermagis no longer saw a future for himself co-operating with Wallet or because at that time Hermagis already had plans to start his own firm somewhere else in Paris.

Wallet then became Derogy and Hermagis became an independent lens maker.

So 1845 as a starting point for Hermagis is acceptable for me. Hermagis' name was on at least one pre-1854 lens after all.

Cheers, Maurits

http://mauritsbollen.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/hermagis-1845-1.jpg

[alex from holland]

it's the same brochure as i have. i got nr 100...
strange that they are not available anymore as it contains very good information

[CCHarrison]

Thanks for the info ! Learning every day !!

Dan

[vitality]

Thank you very much for answers.
Sad, that "Hermagis" book is not available for sale anymore, would be nice to buy one.

[Marko Trebusak]

Vitaly, if you know someone in France, you should be able to get the book second hand. I got mine with help of a French forum member. I forgot who he was, but will look for his user name in my preferencies.
Cheers, Marko