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gliderbee
22-Jan-2012, 10:10
I managed to buy this lens today (see pictures below). It says:

"Eidoscope f/5 N° 3"
"Hermagis"
"OptN ... Paris N° 40653".

It came in what the seller thinks is the original box, and included was a pouch with 5 metal "aperture slides" (I don't know the correct word for these), numbered 0.25, 0.36, 0.50, 1 and 2.

Also included was the brass front cap (looks beautiful) and rear cap (less beautiful), and some kind of instrument that the seller nor I could define. It might not even belong to this lens.

I found some info about Hermagis lenses and I came to this conclusion (but I have a few questions at the end, and please correct me if I'm wrong):

- it's a lens designed for soft-focus portraiture from about 1907
- it has a focal length of about 275mm (about 10.8"), and the front and/or real element can be used separatly, doubling the focal length.
- max aperture is f/5
- covers 5x7 max

My questions are:

- how are these "aperture slides" used ? How can I calculate the resulting aperture ?
- what kind of shutter can I use ? Any suggestions and/or links ?
- what might be that "instrument" on the last picture ?

Is this lens considered any good ? Are they rare or do you find them at each antique market (I never looked around for this kind of lenses; I really stumbled on this one on a flea market today) ?

I intent to use it, but IF I would sell it, what would be a reasonable asking price ? Glass is in excellent condition.

Thanks for any information.
Stefan.

Jim Galli
22-Jan-2012, 10:19
A pretty lens. I don't know too many answers to your questions but will say that it is very likely a petzval type since in the time period it appears to have been made, and just general geometry, that was about all that was on the market.

Someone has inadvertently screwed the front group onto the back and vice versa. Easily remedied.

When you have it in hand, measure the diameter of the glass and let us know. ie. if you measure 30mm X f5 = 150mm lens.

The waterhouse slide go into the slot you see and effectively reduce the ratio of focal length to aperture. Once you know the focal length the math is easy.

No way to guess at a value until size has been more closely identified. A 150mm petzval is very different in value than a 400mm one.

gliderbee
22-Jan-2012, 10:26
A pretty lens. I don't know too many answers to your questions but will say that it is very likely a petzval type since in the time period it appears to have been made, and just general geometry, that was about all that was on the market.

Someone has inadvertently screwed the front group onto the back and vice versa. Easily remedied.

When you have it in hand, measure the diameter of the glass and let us know. ie. if you measure 30mm X f5 = 150mm lens.

The waterhouse slide go into the slot you see and effectively reduce the ratio of focal length to aperture. Once you know the focal length the math is easy.

No way to guess at a value until size has been more closely identified. A 150mm petzval is very different in value than a 400mm one.

Ok, thanks ! I changed the front group and back group to where they belong :)

As for the diameter, it's about 58mm (the hood is in the way to measur it exactly), so that would make it 58 x 5 = 290mm ?

Thanks,
Stefan.

Jim Galli
22-Jan-2012, 10:35
Ok, thanks ! I changed the front group and back group to where they belong :)

As for the diameter, it's about 58mm (the hood is in the way to measur it exactly), so that would make it 58 x 5 = 290mm ?

Thanks,
Stefan.

OK, now if you can verify that one group is cemented 2 lenses together and one group has 2 lenses with a spacer, it is certainly a petzval, and 11" is a good number for people in the market.

Beware of the Capitalists. Guys like me who buy lenses from guys like you, play with them for half a year, and sell them at profit. This is evil.

gliderbee
22-Jan-2012, 11:01
OK, now if you can verify that one group is cemented 2 lenses together and one group has 2 lenses with a spacer, it is certainly a petzval, and 11" is a good number for people in the market.

Beware of the Capitalists. Guys like me who buy lenses from guys like you, play with them for half a year, and sell them at profit. This is evil.

Well, it looks like it are indeed 2 lenses in each group (I think: am I correct in thinking that the number of reflections of a lightbulb I can see shows the number of lenses ?). As for the spacer, I'm not sure how I can see that ? I don't see a difference, or I'm looking at the wrong place.

Stefan.

Jim Galli
22-Jan-2012, 11:04
A small penlight is best. Or one of those laser diodes on a key chain. One group should give you a distinct bright dim bright. This is the cemented group. Also look for very slight yellowish coloring from the balsam cement or even a bubble or 2 at the very edges.

The other group should give you 4 brights. One for each air ~ glass interface.

gliderbee
22-Jan-2012, 11:29
A small penlight is best. Or one of those laser diodes on a key chain. One group should give you a distinct bright dim bright. This is the cemented group. Also look for very slight yellowish coloring from the balsam cement or even a bubble or 2 at the very edges.

The other group should give you 4 brights. One for each air ~ glass interface.

Hm, I certainly don't see 4 brights; in fact, I don't see a difference between the two groups, and they both ahve a very slight, very thin yellowish coloring at the edges. Could it be that both groups are cemented ?

I found this in a French publication: "Composé de deux groupes symétriques, et corrigé de l’aberration chromatique, il ressemble à un rectilinéaire." Translation: "Made of two symmetrical groups, and corrected for chromatic abberation, it looks like a "rectilinéaire" (I don't know how to translate that last word).

Since it says "symmetrical groups", it's maybe normal that I don't see a difference ?

Stefan.

Steven Tribe
22-Jan-2012, 11:48
Jim - the first post says this is an Eidoscope - that is, a modified RR for soft effects!!
Suggest the original poster checks through the search function.
You would get more response if this was posted in the "lens" thread.
You will find your way to CCHarrison's "acheived sales prices soft lens sales" there.

Emil Schildt
22-Jan-2012, 12:12
Jim - the first post says this is an Eidoscope - that is, a modified RR for soft effects!!
Suggest the original poster checks through the search function.
You would get more response if this was posted in the "lens" thread.
You will find your way to CCHarrison's "acheived sales prices soft lens sales" there.

..and be happy to own it!

Make images - it is highly addictive - and of more worth than using time to figure out how expensive it might be!!

You'll love the results!!

Have fun - I know I do!!

gliderbee
22-Jan-2012, 12:34
Jim - the first post says this is an Eidoscope - that is, a modified RR for soft effects!!
Suggest the original poster checks through the search function.
You would get more response if this was posted in the "lens" thread.
You will find your way to CCHarrison's "acheived sales prices soft lens sales" there.

Hm, I looked for the lens subforum before posting, and for some reason (probably some missing brain cells ..), I didn't see it. Now I do see it. Can a tread be moved to the correct forum ?

I did search the forum, and I did found some threads, but nothing that explains the aperture .. Anybody who knows how these aperture slides work ? E.g. if I insert the "1" slide, what's the resulting aperture then ?

@Gandolfi: It's my intention to use this lens; it's my only vintage lens, and I'm very curious to the performance, but for that, I need to know how I can determine the effective aperture with these slides.

Stefan.

gliderbee
22-Jan-2012, 12:35
..and be happy to own it!

Make images - it is highly addictive - and of more worth than using time to figure out how expensive it might be!!

You'll love the results!!

Have fun - I know I do!!

I do intend to keep it and use it: I paid 50 euros for it, so I guess I don't need to resell it for a profit :)

Stefan.

Steven Tribe
22-Jan-2012, 13:16
There are plenty of posted photos here for you to see the possibilities.
The Waterhouse stops just function as fixed aperture openings like an iris with "click" settings. Used from around 1860 until (with big studio cameras) until around 1900.
Most Eidoscopes from Hermagis are black enamel. The no. 3 "translates" into a focal length and what size film it will cover - but I don't have these handy.
What the thing in the last picture, I have no idea and it is certainly the original box. Unfortunately, the flange is still on it's old lens board!
You will find a couple of hours reading here on various threads.

gliderbee
22-Jan-2012, 13:22
There are plenty of posted photos here for you to see the possibilities.
The Waterhouse stops just function as fixed aperture openings like an iris with "click" settings. Used from around 1860 until (with big studio cameras) until around 1900.
Most Eidoscopes from Hermagis are black enamel. The no. 3 "translates" into a focal length and what size film it will cover - but I don't have these handy.
What the thing in the last picture, I have no idea and it is certainly the original box. Unfortunately, the flange is still on it's old lens board!
You will find a couple of hours reading here on various threads.

Hello Steven,

>The Waterhouse stops just function as fixed aperture openings like an iris with "click" >settings

That I understood, but how do I calculate the aperture ? Is it as simple as taking the focal length (should be 275mm according to info I just found) divided by the diameter of the Waterhouse stops (thanks for the name) = aperture in use ? The numbers on these stops don't mean anything to me, but they must mean something, I guess ..

Jim Galli
22-Jan-2012, 13:23
Silly me. I missed that completely. Eidoscop, of course. Better than a petzval (monetarily) and one of my all time favorites! It is a classic soft focus lens of the best kind.

taulen
22-Jan-2012, 13:28
That I understood, but how do I calculate the aperture ? Is it as simple as taking the focal length (should be 275mm according to info I just found) divided by the diameter of the Waterhouse stops (thanks for the name) = aperture in use ?
Correct =)

Paul Fitzgerald
22-Jan-2012, 13:33
"As for the diameter, it's about 58mm (the hood is in the way to measur it exactly), so that would make it 58 x 5 = 290mm ?"

"Anybody who knows how these aperture slides work ? E.g. if I insert the "1" slide, what's the resulting aperture then ?"

Fairly easy, just measure the diameter of the openings in the stops and divide into 290mm. This should get you very close the the f/scale. They should be a bit off because the 'apparent aperture' relies on the optical illusion of the lens.

Have fun with it, it is a very well appreciated portrait lens.

gliderbee
22-Jan-2012, 13:42
Ok, I think I understand now how to define the aperture value on the Waterhouse stops.

Now just out of curiosity, I would like to know the significance of the numbers on those Waterhouse stops. I'll try google; since I know the correct name of these stops, there should be an explanation somewhere.

Thanks all for your help.

Stefan.

maurits
22-Jan-2012, 13:43
Gliderbee, Eidoscope No. 3 is a 275 mm focal length lens that covers 5x7" film and smaller. It is great on 4x5".

Yours was made somewhere in between 1900 and 1910. The largest aperture of the oldest Eidoscope version -which you have- is f5. Do the math from thereon.

Cool find and keep it and use it...

Portraits made with the exact same lens look like this (one stop from wide open).

http://mauritsbollen.com/files/images/sandra_02.jpg

Cheers, Maurits


.

gliderbee
23-Jan-2012, 00:43
Maurits, thanks for the info !

Great picture you posted; I'll certainly use the lens; as it is, there's a small chance the lensflange is still with the seller, as he is also selling an old camera that has a mounting flange that could be the one that belongs to my lens. I'll contact him today, hoping ...

Regards,
Stefan.

jumanji
23-Jan-2012, 07:53
Congrats, a beautiful lens! I did see an early Eidoscope no 2 with waterhouse slot, and this is a No 3. FL 275mm, max aperture f5. Later verison with black barrel painted is f4.5
Portrait, landscape,... you can do everything with an Eidoscope :).

alex from holland
23-Jan-2012, 13:20
Congrats, a beautiful lens! I did see an early Eidoscope no 2 with waterhouse slot, and this is a No 3. FL 275mm, max aperture f5. Later verison with black barrel painted is f4.5
Portrait, landscape,... you can do everything with an Eidoscope :).

Unfortunately no wetplate.........

alex from holland
23-Jan-2012, 13:25
Nice lens.
Great to have the original box with it

It looks like that the front element is mounted at the back of the lens and the back element at the front.
If you ever want to sell it, just let me know.

jumanji
23-Jan-2012, 21:05
Nice lens.
Great to have the original box with it

It looks like that the front element is mounted at the back of the lens and the back element at the front.
If you ever want to sell it, just let me know.
Nope, I think the hood was at another side. Both two cell had thread to attach the hood. I bought a Berthiot Eidoscope no 2 and it was similar to this lens: the hood was at the back side. Have no idea why it happened?!

Yes, I will try to make some ambrotype and tintype, and probably I have to sell my Eidoscope for a cheap price :(

Jim Fitzgerald
23-Jan-2012, 21:22
Gliderbee, Eidoscope No. 3 is a 275 mm focal length lens that covers 5x7" film and smaller. It is great on 4x5".

Yours was made somewhere in between 1900 and 1910. The largest aperture of the oldest Eidoscope version -which you have- is f5. Do the math from thereon.

Cool find and keep it and use it...

Portraits made with the exact same lens look like this (one stop from wide open).

http://mauritsbollen.com/files/images/sandra_02.jpg

Cheers, Maurits


.

Wow, great image! Simply beautiful! Very elegant. I can't wait to see the results of the 275mm one I bought from Jim Galli. Now it was only the rear of the 150mm lens and so it is an F-8 275mm. I wonder how it will look?

jumanji
23-Jan-2012, 21:28
Wow, great image! Simply beautiful! Very elegant. I can't wait to see the results of the 275mm one I bought from Jim Galli. Now it was only the rear of the 150mm lens and so it is an F-8 275mm. I wonder how it will look?

It will look like these :D

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5145/5740036644_6b78682ce2_z.jpg

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6176/6185343108_1190e4952d_z.jpg

IMO it keeps 80% soft focus of a completely Eidoscope.

Jim Fitzgerald
23-Jan-2012, 22:03
Awesome! thanks for the images. I'll be sure to post mine when I get then done.

gliderbee
24-Jan-2012, 12:47
Maurits, thanks for the info !

Great picture you posted; I'll certainly use the lens; as it is, there's a small chance the lensflange is still with the seller, as he is also selling an old camera that has a mounting flange that could be the one that belongs to my lens. I'll contact him today, hoping ...

Regards,
Stefan.

Nope, that flange was the wrong size; it should have a diameter of 74mm (if I measured correctly; it might be 75mm). If somebody has one for sale, I'm interested.

Stefan.