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Randy
22-Jan-2012, 10:09
I am trying to come up with a way to do "panoramic" images with my 5X7 and 8X10 camera's. I am sure this has probably been addressed elsewhere so if someone could direct me to an appropriate thread, I would be grateful...or, please offer feedback on my attempts before I waste a lot of time and effort.

To save money (that I really don't have) I ruled out those $500+ 6X17 backs for the 5X7 camera so I figured the least expensive way was to modify a 5X7 holder, cut 5X7 film in half, and shoot that way:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/52893762/6x17.jpg

I cut a dark-slide to make the film guides and glued them in place. The dark-slides don't cut well. They are kind of brittle. They are perfect for their thickness though.

I have only done one side. Before I spend more time on doing a few more 5X7 holders (and the same thing on a couple old 8X10 holders for doing 4X10's), can anyone offer an idea on a better, easier-to-cut material than dark-slides?

I do realize that I really don't have to go through all this, that I can just crop the center from an exposed 5X7 or 8X10 neg when printing. A big motivation is film cost.

Thoughts please...

vinny
22-Jan-2012, 10:31
make a splitter board. search that term here along with split dark slide.

Vaughn
22-Jan-2012, 10:34
I just modified one dark slide to give me two 4x10 negs on a single sheet of 8x10 film. I find it a rather simple solution that allows me to do both full frame 8x10's and/or 4x10's with very little extra weight to be carried.

drew.saunders
22-Jan-2012, 12:23
If you don't want to cut your own dark slides, especially since you'll want to keep the whole ones around to protect the film, Badger sells the pre-cut ones from Toho. $25 isn't so bad:

https://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=3082

Randy
22-Jan-2012, 12:28
Vaughn, I am assuming that your solution is what vinny was talking about. My problem with that is that, in order to use the center of the lens for this method, you have to use rise or fall of the lens. My 8X10 has no rise/fall in the front or back. My 5X7 has rise/fall in the front but if I use my 115mm lens, the bellows are so compressed that I get very little movement.

Vaughn
22-Jan-2012, 12:59
I understand -- it is tough for me to use the 159mm on the 8x10 with sufficient rise or fall on my Zone VI (way too much bellows when cramped up like that). The 210mm is not much of a problem. Of course, one does not have to use rise/fall with lenses of average coverage for the format (after all we use the lenses on full-framed shots), but it is nice to be able to use the sweet pots of a lens.

But for saving money it is nice to get two images on a sheet of film!

One might be able to use the splitters that Vinny mentioned to give one image on the film -- basically baffles in the camera and no need to modify a bunch of holders.

Vaughn

Brian Vuillemenot
22-Jan-2012, 13:26
I also use the cut 8X10 dark slide method to get 2 4X10s and find it the most covenient in terms of extra stuff to carry and most economical in terms of film and equipment. You just need to be careful about keeping track of which halfs of the film are exposed.

anglophone1
22-Jan-2012, 13:31
Pity Badger don't stock the Toho ones for 4x5

timparkin
22-Jan-2012, 13:39
Yep - I bought the Chamonix 8x10 dark slide with 4x10 cut carbon fibre slide. I had to get the Toyo bag bellows in order to be able to use enough rise/fall to get the lens centred when using my 110 and 240mm lenses though..

Tim

Kuzano
22-Jan-2012, 14:20
Frankly, I've learned that relating the lens to center on the half frame really is not that necessary.

Before I got a little less "anal retentive" about the whole thing, I used an off center lens board that could effect either rise or fall, and in the event of an off center lens board that would not swap top to bottom vertically, I relied on my revolving or switchable vertically back on the camera.

For instance, on a camera with no rise or fall, use a lens board with the lens hole off center upwards, and shoot the upper half of the frame. Then switch the back on the camera 180 degrees and shoot the new "upper" half.

If your camera doesn't have at least those capabilities, what the hell.... shoot any way. It still works.

Vaughn
22-Jan-2012, 14:59
Shift is nice for the vertical 4x10's also.

cdholden
22-Jan-2012, 16:13
What cameras do you have? I know some of the Deardorffs have grooves for a splitter to go in the back right in front of the ground glass, leaving the film holder to work as normal.
I recall that another manufacturer did also, but forget which one.

Jay DeFehr
22-Jan-2012, 16:22
Randy,

Does the original DS still slide in and out with the guides in place? If so, I think yours is a perfectly workable solution, though it does require you to cut your film down.

BTW, when I first looked at your photo, I thought you cut through your septum.:eek:

Michael Jones
22-Jan-2012, 16:22
I recall that another manufacturer did also, but forget which one.

8x10 Tachiharas and the Calument branded versions had the splitter grooves.

Mike

Randy
22-Jan-2012, 18:07
Does the original DS still slide in and out with the guides in place? If so, I think yours is a perfectly workable solution, though it does require you to cut your film down.

BTW, when I first looked at your photo, I thought you cut through your septum.:eek:

Yes, the DS slides in just fine. The guides are glued to the septum.


For instance, on a camera with no rise or fall, use a lens board with the lens hole off center upwards, and shoot the upper half of the frame. Then switch the back on the camera 180 degrees and shoot the new "upper" half.
Thanks Kuzano. Will see if that solves my problem.

cosmicexplosion
11-Aug-2012, 22:45
I just modified one dark slide to give me two 4x10 negs on a single sheet of 8x10 film. I find it a rather simple solution that allows me to do both full frame 8x10's and/or 4x10's with very little extra weight to be carried.


i just looked at my fidelity darkside and i was worried:eek:that light might pass under the slide to covered image

have you had any leeks?

thanks

A

Vaughn
11-Aug-2012, 23:37
No leaks -- no bleed-over.

Here is a contact print (platinum print) taken using my modified darkslide. Note that the upper edge of the image was at the center of the film holder -- and that there is no significant bleeding of light along that edge.

I had taken two images of the same scene (different exposures) on the same piece of film.

Vaughn

cosmicexplosion
12-Aug-2012, 00:58
Well i never....

Thanks Vaughn...you have made my day.

i didnt believe this could work at first, otherwise i would have been doing it. now i feel like i have just discovered my van gogh painting on the wall is a real one...

silly me,

still, this saves me 1-3k on a 4x10 camera.

and you dont have to mess about cutting film in the dark which has never appealed to me.

i really really like panoramic shots.

you could even keep them intact for use on an 8x10 enlarger, with a simple mask.

i also like the idea of two shots with different exposures next to one another.

i cant believe it......I'VE GOT A 4x10 CAMERA!

Vaughn
12-Aug-2012, 01:10
And I will be modifying an 11x14 darkslide so I will have a 5.5"x14" camera as well!

And I have a 50 sheet box of 111x14 film that is fogged on one end -- so I might modify a 11x14 darkslide so that I can make 11x11 prints. I like panoramics, but I also like squares (learned photography with a Roleiflex.)

cosmicexplosion
12-Aug-2012, 01:47
what about using x-ray film,in your 11x14, i was just over in that paddock, and there are some incredible results.

i think an iix14 is on my list...down the track a bit. (now that i have seen the great results)

Vaughn
12-Aug-2012, 08:45
X-ray film --

Don't like it for my printing process. Due to having emulsion on both sides, I do not get as of sharp images when carbon printing as I get with regular film. It seemed fine for platinum printing which has a thinner 'emulsion'...and any lack of sharpness due to the negative is not noticable (to me) due to the inherent softening of the image caused by the texture of the watercolor paper.

Scratching x-ray film during processing is a worry, but changes in one's methods can keep them to a minimum.

Dakotah -- a 4x10 back on an 8x10 is a valid option, especially if one has the money for the back, holders and special-order film. And if one is working in a studio or not too far from the car. Otherwise a few grams for the modified darkslide (and 'free' if using a already damaged dark slide) allows one to carry two formats. Make that three formats if I ever get around to modifying a darkslide to make 8x8 images!

Carrying an 8x10 camera, an 8x10 back, a 4x10 back, 8x10 holders and 4x10 holders for a few miles would be a bit much for me! LOL! My 8x10 kit is already at around 60 pounds...not to mention space limitations!

A dedicated 4x10 camera would be fun to have -- camera and holders would be much lighter. But I rarely go out photographing with just panoramic images in mind.

Lewand2owski
12-Aug-2012, 17:07
I had to get the Toyo bag bellows in order to be able to use enough rise/fall to get the lens centred when using my 110 and 240mm lenses though..
http://www.aofp.info/sun1.jpg
http://www.aofp.info/sun2.jpg
http://www.aofp.info/sun3.jpg
http://www.aofp.info/sun4.jpg

Drew Bedo
12-Aug-2012, 17:38
I have a pile (15 or so) of older 4x5 film holders (metal trim on dark slides) that I'll sell if you want 4x5 dark slides . . .$5 each plus shipping.