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jcoldslabs
22-Jan-2012, 05:50
I recently acquired a Century 10A 8x10 studio camera in reasonable--but by no means good--shape. There are two main problems that need to be solved before I can start shooting with it. The first is that the rear standard has been torn off its base; the screws were pulled straight out of the wood. The camera does not show evidence of being dropped or otherwise abused, but the screws clearly protrude from the base and line up with the open holes in the standard. So, first round of questions (see photos for more detail):

1. What is the best way to reattach the camera to the base? My first thought is to hammer snug fitting dowels into the holes with some wood glue, let it dry, then drill pilot holes and screw it back together as-was. Not being a woodworker I have no idea if this will hold as well as it should.

2. Would it be worth screwing a piece of brass shim stock to the forward portion of the standard to reinforce the connection? (See photo #3). With the sliding carriage attached the weight pulls the standard backward and a reinforcement at this spot should help reduce stress on the screws in the base.

3. In any case, how do I disassemble the base to get to the screws in the first place? The top plate of the base is the part that swings on its axis and the large wood screws are countersunk up under this, but I can't get to them without separating the top part of the swinging base from the bottom. It is not immediately apparent how to do this.

***

Secondly, the bellows are structurally fine with no sagging, but being rubberized cloth the rubber coating is flaking off at most of the folds. I would assume I could apply a black sealant of some kind to make them light tight again, but what kind? Another thread mentioned RV roof sealant, or I could try black silicone caulk, something that would remain flexible. I'm not too worried about the folds sticking to themselves because I plan to use the camera with 20" or longer lenses at portrait distances, so the bellows will remain well extended all the time. This is, in fact, why I bought it. (I have an 8x10 2D I can use for shorter lenses).

So, any ideas about how best to seal the creases and perhaps spray or otherwise coat the failing rubberized outer coat? A new bellows is a bit beyond both my skill set and pay grade at the moment.

***

Lastly, like with a major car repair, once I have it apart this far is there any maintenance I should perform before reassembly? Oil or wax the brass rods and gears? I am not going to refinish or restore the camera fully; I just want to get it functioning and put it to use.

Sorry for the long post. Thanks for any help you all can offer.

Jonathan

Steven Tribe
22-Jan-2012, 09:30
Congrats with the camera.
No need for strengthening with brass. It looks to me as though the bottom of the rear standard will take a longer screw and with a slightly large thread (bore out first!!).
You may find the repair to the bellows not necessary. Just throw the dark cloth across over the bellows after you have composed and focussed. I do this all the time with a big field camera with an ineffective light seal between the sinar copal shutter and the bellows.
You have checked out the long thread on Century renovation?

John Conway
22-Jan-2012, 09:54
I can offer some advice on the bellows issue. On one of my cameras, a Kieth 4x5 twin lens camera with double bellows, the original bellows corners were worn. I decided to use liquid electrical tape and it worked great. Liquid electrical tape comes in a can with a brush attached to the cap like nail polish, it's black and dries flexible without being sticky when dry. About three bucks a can at Home depot.

Harold_4074
22-Jan-2012, 16:29
For access to the screws, it may be necessary to dismount the bellows at one end (screws on the inside, going through the bellows frame and clamping it to the standard) and then slide the rear standard completely off of the tracks. The screw heads will then be exposed.

I'm not sure that I would agree with just using longer and larger screws; if they were stripped on installation (as I suspect, given that it would be quite an achievement to evenly pull out all four without doing any other damage) then the wood around the holes is probably damaged. By the time you get to a screw large in diameter to engage beyond the damaged zone, it may be too coarse to work well.

Gluing in plugs and re-drilling is an option, but a lot of the joint will involve gluing to end grain, which is always a bit iffy for strength. A large dowel (at least 3/8 inch, possibly 1/2) will give substantial joint area and will probably work.

The ultimate repair is probably to install brass threaded inserts sized to the original screw. You can probably get them locally, and certainly from McMaster-Carr; they simply thread into a straight-sided hole, and accept a machine screw (consider McMaster part # 90016A021). If you are careful not to drill completely through the bottom of the standard, the repair will be invisible unless the camera is disassembled.

eddie
22-Jan-2012, 16:52
please check your PM. i am send i a link to a video i made that will help you with your task. there is no need to take the bellows off the camera....don't do it as there are a real PITA.

i had some still photos that were perfect for what you are asking AND it is your lucky day as i had not emptied my trash folder and i found them.

check your pm

eddie

Jim Andrada
22-Jan-2012, 17:12
Re filling the holes with dowels - might be easier to mix up a paste of sawdust and epoxy to about peanut butter consistency and carefully fill the holes with it then drill. IF the holes are reasonably large (1/4 or larger,) then another way is to drill the hole out and get a plug cutter the same size as the drill you used which will cut a dowel out of wood perpendicular to the grain, align the grain within reason and tap it in with a little bit of glue then chisel off any excess and re-drill.This eliminates drilling into end grain and will be quite strong - you might want to cut a few very small grooves in the side of the plug to let the glue escape when you tap the plug into place. Easy to do with a hand saw - you only need a couple of grooves the width of the saw blade and maybe a 16th or less deep.

If you do this you should also get a drill that will cut a flat bottomed hole so you don't have to drill all the way through the piece. This is all best done with a drill press but if you're careful a hand drill can work.

I've plugged a lot of holes with the plug cutter technique and if you're careful to use the same kind of wood it can look quite nice - this is how they cover screw heads in nice furniture.

jcoldslabs
22-Jan-2012, 17:42
Thanks for the tips. I'll have to decide how confident I am in my woodworking skills before attempting a plug or glue repair. I guess that's why I wanted to reinforce with brass as a hedge against shoddy work!

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eddie,

Replied to your message. Looking forward to the photos. Thanks.

***

John,

Liquid electrical tape comes up so often in regard to bellows repair I'll definitely give it a try. I'll test it out on a few folds, let it dry and see how it works. My plan has been to supplement this with the dark cloth thrown over the bellows or better yet, since this is a studio camera after all, just buy a length of blackout fabric that semi-permanently lays across the bellows.

***

Harold,

I like the brass insert idea and it seems feasible, but the original screws are tapered and rather coarsely threaded. Not sure if I can get a brass insert to match. I suppose I would likely have to use new screws, which, once I can gain access to them, is fine with me.

***

Jim,

Sounds like a good plan; thanks for the detailed description. I'll measure the holes and see where to go from there.

***

I realize there is no one right way, and opinions will differ. I'll consider all the options and see which one I am most comfortable trying. I don't want to mangle the camera, but since it is meant to be a beater/user I am not overly concerned with period-correct or invisible repairs. Just a warning--I may be back with more questions before you know it!

Jonathan

jcoldslabs
22-Jan-2012, 22:21
Success! (So far.)

Thanks to Eddie's photos I was able to decipher the mystery of the 10A rear standard and remove it entirely from the camera rails. (See photo below). I still need to decide how best to approach the reattachment given my small skill set and even smaller collection of hand tools. Screwing in brass threaded sockets and bolting the thing back together is appealing. I'll research the parts over the next few days.

Now I will dust, clean and tidy up the bits I have access to. Can anyone recommend a regimen for oiling/waxing/sprucing up the brass works while I have them exposed? I'm not sure if some lubrication is warranted or if that will just be a dust and grime magnet down the road.

Again, the advice and help received here has been of great assistance.

Jonathan

Harold_4074
23-Jan-2012, 12:36
Jonathan,

I'm glad you found out how to access the screws without pulling off the bellows; if anyone would know how to do this it would be Eddie.

Regarding the brass inserts: if you decide to go this route, look for a "brad point" drill and "stop collar". These (along with the inserts) can be had from practically any woodworking house (Rockler, Woodworker, etc.) and will let you drill an almost flat bottomed hole of predetermined depth. As far as bolts go, these would be standard flat-head machine screws which should be available from any hardware vendor.

Harold

eddie
23-Jan-2012, 12:56
glue in some dowels or other wood into the existing holes. wait one day. drill to the correct size and reuse the original hardware. there is no need to do an reenforcing.

i sent the video today but it looks like the stills were enough.

jcoldslabs
23-Jan-2012, 14:56
Harold,

Thanks for the detailed description. This will make it much easier to find the parts if I go that route. I am hoping I can borrow the drill and bits from a friend.

Eddie,

The video was great. Very helpful, thank you. It will make reassembly much, much easier.


Jonathan

John Conway
23-Jan-2012, 20:35
A simple and economic fix for loose screws that works for me is toothpicks. A few years back I was patching up a rat Kodak 2D. Not one screw on that camera would tighten. Simply stick a toothpick or two into the hole, snap them off, and screw away.You could add a little Elmer's wood glue for extra hold. It works great. You could get a good box of toothpicks for about a buck a box. Someone may have suggested this, but I figured I would put it out there.

jcoldslabs
23-Jan-2012, 20:49
John,

That was actually my first thought, but then I talked myself out of it thinking it was too, I don't know, pedestrian? I may try that yet, however. . As I said, I can't decide. I'm guessing that the bond does not need to be bulletproof since the camera will not be abused taking portraits; so long as it holds rigidly enough over time to keep the camera back straight and doesn't give during insertion and removal of film holders.

I've never used them, but I believe the Gorilla Glue products expand as they dry. I was wondering if a glue of this type would be useful since I would benefit from the screw hole filling up from the inside with adhesive as it envelops the fastener.

Again, too many choices! At some point soon I will just bite the bullet and pick one.

Jonathan

John Conway
23-Jan-2012, 21:13
Jonathan, the fix works very well but you must be careful not to over do it. You don't want to many toothpicks in the hole, or glue that expands more than needed, because there is a chance of splitting the wood. You just want enough, usually two or three, to get that snug seat when you tighten down the screw.

jcoldslabs
24-Jan-2012, 21:09
I found the attached "knife thread high strength hex drive" self-tapping inserts at McMaster-Carr. It looks like I would just have to drill out the existing screw holes, screw in the inserts with a hex wrench and replace the wood screws with 1/4"-20 bolts. Sidestepping the whole doweling and gluing issue would be my preference.

Any reason NOT to do it this way? (Other than the fact that it would not be keeping the camera in a fully original state, but that's not a concern for me so long as the repair is solid.)

Jonathan

Steven Tribe
25-Jan-2012, 03:51
First of all, sorry about the quality of the illustration!
I have used the system you propose for making and securing extra insulating double glazed window frames. It is easy to work with.
Looking at the screws sticking out of the base, it appears that quite a lot of the original thread was in the base as well as the standard. This means that the base and standard must have been clamped together before the base screws were inserted. A geat deal of the strength of this join comes from the places in the base where this has been cut by the wood screw. The proposed solution means a drillled hole with inserted machine screw which will only be "held" by the head of the screw against a few millimeters of the screw head against the bottom base face. It would be necessary to have quite a large washer (sunken?) to make a solid join.

cowanw
25-Jan-2012, 04:35
I think the insert will be going through both pieces, and will be far stronger than the original.

jcoldslabs
25-Jan-2012, 04:41
Steven,

Thank you for the diagram; it makes perfect sense. However, when disassembling the camera I did not have to turn the screws to remove them from the base; I was able to just push them out with my finger. This leads me to think that the threads were not engaging in the base but only within the wood of the rear standard. In other words, the holes in the base were large enough for the screws to pass through threads and all, so it may be that the original "hold" in the base was against the head of the screw anyway.

If so, I think the threaded insert plan is the way I am going to go since it won't hold much differently than the original, except that it will be with machine screws instead of wood screws. Unlike with wood screws there may be a chance that the machine screws will loosen over time, but since it is a studio camera it won't see much vigorous activity and my hope is that the screws will stay firmly in place. I've barely begun and I'm learning more about screws and fasteners than I ever thought I would. Isn't this supposed to be a photography project? Ha!

Jonathan

EDIT: Bill - I don't think the insert goes between the two pieces of wood; rather, it sets into the old screw holes in the rear standard and the machine screws feed up through the holes in the base into the threaded part like a nut. But since the wide "knife edge" cutting threads on the insert will grab into the surrounding wood I figure it should hold. At least this is my understanding. I could always just use larger diameter wood screws through both the base and the standard, I guess, but that worries me for some reason. If this doesn't work I can always try the dowel and glue method after. I'll only be out a few bucks in parts and will learn a lot in the process.

Steven Tribe
25-Jan-2012, 04:59
I have checked that there is an IKEA in Portland. This may be an easier souce of the fitments you need. This is the standard system used by IKEA in knock down furniture for secure fitment with dodgy materials, like chip board and worse. They supply extra fitments at very low cost at the "return and complaints" counter!.

jcoldslabs
25-Jan-2012, 05:00
Steven,

IKEA, yes of course. I'll look into it. It isn't all that far from my house. Thanks.

Jonathan

cowanw
25-Jan-2012, 05:47
I, like most, know about the Ikea system. I was thinking the size of the torn out holes in the base may be too large.
the alternative may be to sink someting like this
http://www.mcmaster.com/#threaded-inserts/=fyibwd
into the top of the rail and bolt into it thought the two pieces.

Actually even better and cleaner is a Binding post. Please look at this!
http://www.mcmaster.com/#binding-posts/=fyidk1

Best of luck
Bill

eddie
25-Jan-2012, 06:37
glue in some dowels or other wood into the existing holes. wait one day. drill to the correct size and reuse the original hardware. there is no need to do an reenforcing.

Steven Tribe
25-Jan-2012, 16:26
I think Eddie's advice is the best. Just remember that even mature mahogany is still a difficult "gluer" with modern fancy glues. A runny waterbased glue might give the best adhesion.

jcoldslabs
25-Jan-2012, 17:35
Steven, Eddie:

So you really think that will hold? (I suppose you do or you wouldn't have suggested it.) I'm a bit nervous about the rescrewed bond being dodgy, but having no experience with this I have no reason to think that. I've not used one of these cameras before and have no idea how much stress--or not--the rear standard suffers during normal use.

By "runny" glue do mean regular wood glue?

These situations are always tough when you don't know what you're doing. Everyone's advice has been much appreciated even if I'm still not sure what to do!

Thanks,

Jonathan

cowanw
25-Jan-2012, 18:16
Well my binding post suggestion comes from our Biomedical engineer who fixes everything that comes his way.
I was worried about the strength of the lens board reducer sliding strips which are held in by 3/8" no 6 screws on my Deardorff, I was really worried with the heavy older portrait lens teetering out in front. The sleeves and bolts replacements are like a rock now.
Fact is though, all of these suggestions work and work well if done properly.The choice is yours.

jcoldslabs
25-Jan-2012, 18:23
"The choice is yours."

Ahh, there's the real rub. I have to make a decision now....

J.

Steven Tribe
26-Jan-2012, 02:39
Runny:
Low viscoscity, water-based and slow acting.

Modern glues are often too quick acting and gel-like for high absorbtion into the surface of hard woods.