Ridiculous price on 14" Kodak Commercial Ektar

[John NYC]

There is a 1955 vintage 14" Commercial Ektar on the big auction site right now, and the seller has a buy it now price of $900. Would anyone in their right mind pay that?

[gth]

There is a 1955 vintage 14" Commercial Ektar on the big auction site right now, and the seller has a buy it now price of $900. Would anyone in their right mind pay that?

No.... but being in their right mind is not necessarily a characteristic of eBay buyers - including yours truly.... :cool:

[vinny]

I passed on one for $200 once. I wish I hadn't.

[John NYC]

No.... but being in their right mind is not necessarily a characteristic of eBay buyers - including yours truly.... :cool:

Ha, ha!!!

[jcoldslabs]

Someone probably just posted that one so that all the other $600 Buy-It-Nows look reasonable.

Not!

[mdm]

Someone with very little experience and driven by LFPF lens mania probably wouldnt even blink. Thats why I hate all the lens spruiking that goes on here, it breed's suckers to buy overpriced glass, from slightly more worldly lens maina suckers selling to recover some money from previous mistakes or to finance the next madness.

[cdholden]

If people are chasing magic bullets instead of going after a certain "look", lenses have more effect on an image than cameras. Cameras are also the subject of the same madness of which you speak.

[John Conway]

You have to wonder what the sellers are thinking when you see those ridiculous prices. There is a guy on ebay trying to sell a Cambo lens shade for 900.00. And everything is "RARE", or better yet, "VERY RARE". I have scored some great deals on ebay from honest, fair people. We just have put up with the crap as well. That 900.00 Ektar will sit there until the seller drops the price down to where it should be. Or, maybe someone will buy it, and the seller will laugh all the way to the paypal window.

[jcoldslabs]

That's just it: there's nothing to stop someone from asking far too much for a piece of equipment, and there's nothing stopping someone from paying too much, either. It's only a rip-off is the item is misrepresented. Caveat emptor.

[Thebes]

It sometimes seems to me that market forces have conspired to create a situation in which moderately overpriced items seem an excellent value compared to absurdly overpriced items like this lens.

[ImSoNegative]

the one i had i paid 400 for it, it was like new though so i didnt feel too bad, that was a couple of years ago. 900 huh? camera$ or lessthanretail?

[John NYC]

One just went for $350 on this forum today. I would not sell mine for that.

[c.d.ewen]

One just went for $350 on this forum today. I would not sell mine for that.

John:

If I used mdm's logic, I'd call the buyer a sucker, since I bought one for way less than that. The market price for anything is whatever the buyer & seller agree upon. Even for tulip bulbs.

Charley

[Brian Ellis]

I'm trying to figure out why anyone would be bothered or concerned or have any interest at all in the price someone asks for an item they're selling on ebay. Nobody is forced to pay the price. If it's so ridiculous that nobody pays it then who's harmed except the seller? And if someone pays the price then it wasn't a ridiculous price. But either way, why would anyone care except the seller and the buyer if there is one?

[John Kasaian]

Does a Deardorff come with it?:confused:

[Kevin Crisp]

A six pack of Bud is "rare" in Ebay-speak.

[E. von Hoegh]

A six pack of Bud is "rare" in Ebay-speak.

An if it's more than a week old, it's "vintage".:(

[John NYC]

I'm trying to figure out why anyone would be bothered or concerned or have any interest at all in the price someone asks for an item they're selling on ebay. Nobody is forced to pay the price. If it's so ridiculous that nobody pays it then who's harmed except the seller? And if someone pays the price then it wasn't a ridiculous price. But either way, why would anyone care except the seller and the buyer if there is one?

Wanting to understand the general market price for a product one is interested in is not an odd thing to want to do. I am trying to do that. People talk about the worth of many things on this forum all the time. There is a multi-thousand post thread on this topic regarding petzvals for instance.

[EdWorkman]

When I was still working, I thought of asking for a million bucks for a job. I knew that there would be a slim chance of a buyer, but I'd only need to sell ONE

[Bob Salomon]

Depends on how badly someone wants it. Obviously you do not want one badly enough.

[BrianShaw]

Depends on how badly someone wants it. Obviously you do not want one badly enough.

That's my feeling. But thread after thread seems to exist on "stupid ebay buyers" like it really matters to us how much more some people are willing to spend than some of the rest of us are. I say "live and let live"... and lets stop mocking those who either are uneducated, or can't wait for a better deal, or really wants it and wants it now.

[Brian Ellis]

Wanting to understand the general market price for a product one is interested in is not an odd thing to want to do. I am trying to do that. People talk about the worth of many things on this forum all the time. There is a multi-thousand post thread on this topic regarding petzvals for instance.

If you want market prices from ebay I think you should be looking at completed sales. Asking prices are just that, what somebody is asking. They don't establish a market price.

[ic-racer]

I don't mind seeing high asking prices. I mind sellers that are rude to me when I offer what something is worth to me.

[John Kasaian]

If you can't steal it, don't get it off ebay, heh-heh!

[John NYC]

If you want market prices from ebay I think you should be looking at completed sales. Asking prices are just that, what somebody is asking. They don't establish a market price.

How do you see the final sales price of a buy it now when the seller can accept a lower offer? Are those published on eBay?

[Michael Kadillak]

A really nice Ektar is invaluable because you can use it for the rest of your shooting life.

Years ago I paid $650 for a boxed 250mm Wide Field that was as good as new. I keep it in a hard Pelican case all by itself it is so nice. It all comes down to how bad you want it and if you can find one that is exceptional. I agree that average users command average prices.

[John NYC]

A really nice Ektar is invaluable because you can use it for the rest of your shooting life.

Years ago I paid $650 for a boxed 250mm Wide Field that was as good as new. I keep it in a hard Pelican case all by itself it is so nice. It all comes down to how bad you want it and if you can find one that is exceptional. I agree that average users command average prices.

Yes, they are lovely. I have one already. I am trying to figure out if I want to buy a backup. The prices seem to be all over the place.

[Peter York]

I would not pay $900 for an Ektar, but there is $900 of value in an Ektar.

[John Kasaian]

I was fortunate to get my 14" Commercial Ektar for $400 and a 10" WF for the same price. I would have gone as high as $600 if I had the money, but this was when digital was takiing over and LF gear was going for fairly low prices (used 8x10 holders were 2 for $25, IIRC) That said, these are classic lenses and real workhorses but you can get the same design in the Japanese Congo lens and in a modern shutter for a lot less than $900.

[Brian Ellis]

How do you see the final sales price of a buy it now when the seller can accept a lower offer? Are those published on eBay?

I don't know. What difference does it make?

[BrianShaw]

I don't know. What difference does it make?

Perhaps for market research purposes.

[John Kasaian]

Thing is, you could go to MPX other reputable dealer and pay a lot less than the $900 and have a bona fide guarantee.
It is this sort of auction that makes ebay dumb.

[John NYC]

I don't know. What difference does it make?

I think that is obvious at this point if you read my posts on this thread.

[Marc B.]

Actually, there are about 1/2 dozen Commercial Ektars, mounted in-shutter, from 8 to 14 inch, for $600 - $900 USD asking price.
Seems far-fetched to me; darn near delusional.

[BrianShaw]

Sure, it seems delusional. They won't sell fast, if at all. Sellers loss, not ours unless we buy one at those prices.

[E. von Hoegh]

It's like anything else. Decide what YOU will pay for it, and don't pay more. Not very complex.

[BrianShaw]

I'll give you a penny for that thought.

[E. von Hoegh]

I'll give you a penny for that thought.

Well, I won't sell for less than the value of a 19" Dagor. In Compound.;) It's my thought, and unique.:)

[CCHarrison]

If there was a CE for sale on ebay for $ 100 would you buy it and gloat or tell the seller they are pricing it to low? Just curious :)

Dan

[John Kasaian]

I can see this difference in prices from the view point of a user versus a collector but I have a hard time seeing why some stuff is considered a premium collectible (14" Commercial Ektars aren't rare) or special enough for a photographer to shell out big bucks (while Commercial Ektars are very good, they aren't multicoated and the old Ilex Universals are considered by many---not me, but many---photographers to be a pain in the rump! Plus I've noticed a general animosity against tessars in general) Much of the same could be said for Dagors as well (ducks and takes cover!)
The multicoated Schneider and Rodenstock lenses that replaced the Commercial Ektars are still around, the Congo wannabbes of course, and I don't recall them being anywhere near that expensive on the used market. Nikons and Fujis come closest but they are much newer, more modern designs.

[John Kasaian]

As a bottom feeder in the large format world, my sympathies are with new guys just starting to build kits on a tight budget. A decent lens is a major expense and unless one pinholes, they aren't going to get enywhere without a lens. This is why this thread kind of hit me in the gut--the 14" Commercial Ektars are very capable lenses and something a hobbyist can usually afford for $300 or even $600, but not for $900!

[E. von Hoegh]

If there was a CE for sale on ebay for $ 100 would you buy it and gloat or tell the seller they are pricing it to low? Just curious :)

Dan

I'd tell them it was priced too low. Wouldn't be the first time, either.

[BrianShaw]

As a bottom feeder in the large format world, my sympathies are with new guys just starting to build kits on a tight budget. A decent lens is a major expense and unless one pinholes, they aren't going to get enywhere without a lens. This is why this thread kind of hit me in the gut--the 14" Commercial Ektars are very capable lenses and something a hobbyist can usually afford for $300 or even $600, but not for $900!

Actually, John, I beg to differ. For someone starting in 4x5 (or even 5x4) it is CHEAP to get started [edit: as long as one does their market research and does not buy rediculously overpriced offerings]. There are many, many bargains. So much is being put onthe market by folks who have gotten out of LF and don't seem to want to make a killing selling hteir unused gear.

Unfortunately there are still people who want to get into LF but have rediculously low budgets -- those people should probably reconsider their goals. I have a theory about those types of people but it isn't flattering so I'll bite my tongue.

I don't consider myself a "bottom feeder" but I'm definitely bargain minded... and have filled out my lens desires at very affordable rates in the past two years. Things might be quite different for 8x10 shooters, though, or the Petzval/SF shooters.

[John Kasaian]

Actually, John, I beg to differ. For someone starting in 4x5 (or even 5x4) it is CHEAP to get started. There are many, many bargains. So much is being put onthe market by folks who have gotten out of LF and don't seem to want to make a killing selling hteir unused gear.

Unfortunately there are still people who want to get into LF but have rediculously low budgets -- those people should probably reconsider their goals. I have a theory about those types of people but it isn't flattering so I'll bite my tongue.

I don't consider myself a "bottom feeder" but I'm definitely bargain minded... and have filled out my lens desires at very affordable rates in the past two years. Things might be quite different for 8x10 shooters, though, or the Petzval/SF shooters.
You've got yours and I've got mine but there are newbys who don't and are shopping around.
With the well publicized Kodak implosion and subsquent "The Emulsion Sky Is Falling" panic, we may soon be experiencing a similar equipment glut on the market to the one a few years ago when commerical studios were embracing digital and their analog gear was disposed of cheaply, but how would that explain $900 14" Commercial Ektars? Thats is greed. That is what feuls pop culture (the tv program American Pickers comes to my mind.) How is that defensible?

[BrianShaw]

You've got yours and I've got mine but there are newbys who don't and are shopping around.

Actually, I don't have mine... I have a 12 inch I got at a decent price though. I'm shopping around for both a Kodak CE in 10 and 14. ;)

[Brian Ellis]

$900 is an ASKING price. Actually it isn't even that, it's $900 "or best offer." The consternation in this thread about the price someone is asking boggles the mind.

[John NYC]

If there was a CE for sale on ebay for $ 100 would you buy it and gloat or tell the seller they are pricing it to low? Just curious :)

Dan

Both things actually happen around here.

I would do neither.

[Andrew]

the "or best offer" is often a fishing trip to see what people might actually pay... rather like making a rediculous reserve price and then throwing a second round offer to the highest bidder if the bid was silly enough. I always feel like someone's trying to cheat me when I get a second round offer (and esp so when it comes an hour after the auction finishes! )

then, there's always a chance the high "buy now" will snag a buyer who doesn't know better or one who's just got enough spare cash to not care they're paying too much for the sake of getting whatever-it-is then and there [I've been guily of that one]

sometimes it's the seller who knows no better when they don't normally deal with photographic equipment

[BrianShaw]

the "or best offer" is often a fishing trip to see what people might actually pay...

... then, there's always a chance the high "buy now" will snag a buyer who doesn't know better or one who's just got enough spare cash to not care they're paying too much for the sake of getting whatever-it-is then and there...

... and (as you say) sometimes it is a tactic to get potential buyers to bite. Some rediculous sellers have not intention of agreeing to a reasonable best offer, they use that as a tactic to 'settle" at a reasonably high value -- somewhere between reasonable and rediculous!

[Merg Ross]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but the definition used for Market Value in real estate is somewhat applicable: "Estimated amount for which a property should exchange between a willing buyer and seller wherein the parties each acted knowledgeably, prudently and without compulsion". I think the key here is with knowledge, and without compulsion. Otherwise it is just a sale, and not a true reflection of market value.

[John NYC]

$900 is an ASKING price. Actually it isn't even that, it's $900 "or best offer." The consternation in this thread about the price someone is asking boggles the mind.

What boggles the mind is you keep repeating your same one opinion on this topic over and over. We get it, Brian. You don't think anyone should discuss prices. Let it go.

[BrianShaw]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but the definition used for Market Value in real estate is somewhat applicable: "Estimated amount for which a property should exchange between a willing buyer and seller wherein the parties each acted knowledgeably, prudently and without compulsion". I think the key here is with knowledge, and without compulsion. Otherwise it is just a sale, and not a true reflection of market value.

me have no doggy either, but isn't MV based on actuals rather than projection? i not sure bt that me recollection.

[sully75]

Unfortunately there are still people who want to get into LF but have rediculously low budgets -- those people should probably reconsider their goals. I have a theory about those types of people but it isn't flattering so I'll bite my tongue.


I started with a $160 camera I rebuilt, a $100 lens, a $90 tripod some holders and some film. Not sure any of the stuff I bought since then has really helped my pictures that much. I did some pictures I'm really proud of with that camera. Not sure why you need to blow a lot of money on this.

[sully75]

I can see this difference in prices from the view point of a user versus a collector but I have a hard time seeing why some stuff is considered a premium collectible (14" Commercial Ektars aren't rare) or special enough for a photographer to shell out big bucks (while Commercial Ektars are very good, they aren't multicoated and the old Ilex Universals are considered by many---not me, but many---photographers to be a pain in the rump! Plus I've noticed a general animosity against tessars in general) Much of the same could be said for Dagors as well (ducks and takes cover!)
The multicoated Schneider and Rodenstock lenses that replaced the Commercial Ektars are still around, the Congo wannabbes of course, and I don't recall them being anywhere near that expensive on the used market. Nikons and Fujis come closest but they are much newer, more modern designs.

Ebay is very frustrating for LF lenses. For many fairly common lenses, there will be no examples up for auction, and a number with inflated buy it now prices. I think people don't want to believe their stuff is worth less than what they paid for it.

[Steve Hamley]

What's remarkable is everyone's opinion about things that aren't selling. Anyone can ask anything for anything (and they frequently do) and it really isn't remarkable. What something actually sells for is far more useful than what someone asks.

Having said that, there are a lot of people who at least ask top dollar; Glennview, Gokevin, TMR, Lens and Repro and many others. That's why these people have high end items. If they asked average prices for highly desirable items they wouldn't have anything for us to remark about. I'm good with that, if I want something badly enough it's there.

A recent post lamented that they couldn't find a 210mm Computar. Glenn Evans (Glennview) has two - and still has them. Apparently there was a second unstated criterion, that the highly desirable Computar had to be lower than what was asked. People want 8x10 Acros and 4x5 Acros Quickloads - but not enough to order them from Japan where they are readily available.

Asking and getting are two different things as has been noted, but so are wanting and buying!

Cheers, Steve

[Andrew]

as Mum said: something is "worth" what someone is prepared to pay for it...

[BrianShaw]

I started with a $160 camera I rebuilt, a $100 lens, a $90 tripod some holders and some film. Not sure any of the stuff I bought since then has really helped my pictures that much. I did some pictures I'm really proud of with that camera. Not sure why you need to blow a lot of money on this.

That is a low, but reasonable budget to me. I started out modest, like you, and still use my "original" equipment... 30 years later. Along the way I've expanded, but never spent lots of money to do that.

What I chuckle about are the people who want to get started but want a high-end 8x10 camera with all of the movements and 20 holders and the latest lens(es) and a big tripod and the donkey to carry it all on... for less than $100. :)

[c.d.ewen]

Something that just gets a mention, but is then quickly passed by, is the effect of the wealthy on the market. Every once in a while, those venders with absurd prices reel in a big fish. Maybe not that often, but enough that it's worth it to try to hit the jackpot.

People hear about silly things that people with "too much" money do, and think that such uneconomical choices are rarely made. Wrong. I used to work on Wall treet, and have seen choices made that any ordinary person would consider absurd. Not everybody plays according to the same rules.

Here's my favorite story, from back in the 80's, when I ran the IT department for a bond trading outfit: I was told, on a Thursday afternoon, that I was going, on Monday morning, with one of the firm's partners to London, to see about opening an office there. Good thing they gave me a little notice, as I didn't have a passport. I went to the local passport office at 9AM Friday, and had my passport by 11AM. Money talks. While on the Monday Concorde, enjoying our iced vodka and caviar, the partner asked the stewardess if he could change his return flight from Thursday to Wednesday. When told the Concordes don't fly Wednesdays (maintenance), he exclaimed, "But I have Billy Joel tickets!" (he was from Long Island). The next morning, we met for breakfast, and he immediately left to catch the Tuesday Concorde, and attend the concert.

There's icing on the cake, as it were: the airline tried to contact him, to tell him he had left $10k in travelers checks on the airplane. Dumb, but not stupid, you say? The travelers checks had never been signed. They might as well have been cash. Has your bank ever let you out of sight without first signing your travelers checks? Would you remember, if you were carrying $10k? The rich play by other rules.

This was just one of a thousand such "too much money" stories.

Charley

[Drew Bedo]

How may I check the final selling price of expired auctions onthe 'bay?

[sully75]

Drew,

You have to be logged into ebay. Do a search for something, then click on "completed listings" in the left hand column. It will show you all the sales for a certain period backward (something like 2 or 3 weeks, maybe more).

Paul

[John NYC]

Drew,

You have to be logged into ebay. Do a search for something, then click on "completed listings" in the left hand column. It will show you all the sales for a certain period backward (something like 2 or 3 weeks, maybe more).

Paul

This would not include whatever price a seller accepted as a "best offer" for a "buy it now" item would it?

[IanG]

I looked at the one 14" Commercial Ektar a few days ago (there's 2 at $900 BIN) and wasn't surprised.

Yes it's not cheap but perhaps it's less worn & has fewer issues than cheaper listings, and one of the sellers has a similar lens for $300 less. Then lets not forget the big discrepancies in world markets. So a lens like this might be worth far more in say the UK/EU or China/Japan compared to the US market.

A lens like a 90mm f6.8 Angulon might sell for $100 in the US some go for $270 in the UK Only a very few).

Ebay's International and many sellers will pitch for higher world prices rather than the often lower US figures.

In the end a lens like this is worth what you or more frequently someone else is prepared to pay for it.

Ian

[Brian Ellis]

What boggles the mind is you keep repeating your same one opinion on this topic over and over. We get it, Brian. You don't think anyone should discuss prices. Let it go.

Where do you see that I said prices shouldn't be discussed? I've just expressed surprise (twice, not exactly "over and over") that an ebay asking price would attract the kind of criticism and bashing of the seller that this one has.

John, if I've upset or bothered you by my posts, I apologize. That wasn't my intent, I was just making a comment. But I'll be happy to let it go and say no more.

[sully75]

This would not include whatever price a seller accepted as a "best offer" for a "buy it now" item would it?

Those are two different things. It would show the price for a buy-it-now sale, definitely. For a "best offer" sale, I'm pretty sure that yes, it will show you the price it went for.

[jcoldslabs]

For a more reasonable substitute:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BAUSCH-LOMB-OPTICAL-SUPER-CINEPHOR-SPECIAL-EF-7-00-in-177-7mm-f-1-9-RARE-/370560741108?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item5647242ef4

(For when the link dies in the future, someone is selling a Bausch and Lomb projection lens for $6,700.)

As we've said, there's nothing to stop a seller from asking for the moon. Will he or she get it? Who knows.

[gliderbee]

I'd tell them it was priced too low. Wouldn't be the first time, either.

Before or after you bought it :D ?