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alexn
18-Jan-2012, 14:43
Hi everyone..

Im currently shooting a 90/8 on my 4x5 with a 617 back and the coverage is good, however I want to go wider..The lenses I'm considering are as follows.

Nikkor SW 75/4.5
Schneider SA 72/5.6

I know the 72/5.6 will easily cover 617, what I do not know is if I will be able to focus it at infinity given the offset of the 617 back on my Linhof Kardan Super Colour ST. The 90/8 focuses easily with room for some movements.

My other option is to sell the 617 back, buy a 612 back which sit flush on the 4x5 like a standard film holder, allowing me to go as wide as the 47/5.6 or 58/5.6.

Just looking for opinions. I love the 617 format, I did have a dedicated 617 camera however in an attempt to lighten my camera bag I sold it in favor of the back for the 4x5... This way I'm only carrying one camera and one set of lenses rather than two..

Many thanks.

Alex.

PS. If there are other lenses I should be considering please let me know... I do not want to go longer than 75mm.

Robert Oliver
18-Jan-2012, 14:49
recessed lens board?

My 75mm Grandagon does not focus with my 6x17 back on 4x5 (the lens wouldn't cover anyway) but does work great with a 6x12 back.

Lachlan 717
18-Jan-2012, 15:19
This spreadsheet might be of some use:

http://home.globalcrossing.net/~zilch0/tools/LF6x17cm.xls

(I have a DaYi 617 shift II with a 72mm lens for those times when I want to hand-hold).

alexn
18-Jan-2012, 16:49
Thanks for that Lachlan...

I might look for a Nikkor 75 F/4.5.. its faster, lighter and has more than enough coverage.. I did want to keep my Fotoman 617 because its easier, but I just run out of space in my bags... between the digital gear, the 4x5, and the 617 with all the respective lenses it was just too much... So the 617 back was the option...

I will get a 75 F/4.5 and see how I go... I should get away with it using a recessed lens board..

panoral
19-Jan-2012, 12:42
HI
I shot with super angulon 47xl on 6x17 and send for you.

panoral
19-Jan-2012, 12:47
HI
I shot with super angulon 47xl on 6x17 and send for you.

alexn
23-Jan-2012, 00:45
Did you shoot that with a center filter?

I would never have thought the 47/5.6 SA would even come close...

Might be fun..

rdenney
23-Jan-2012, 06:23
Did you shoot that with a center filter?

I would never have thought the 47/5.6 SA would even come close...

Might be fun..

The 47/5.6 SA barely covers 6x12, and it wouldn't have a chance with 617. The image circle is nominally 123mm, and the 612 format diameter is a hair bigger than that. Here is an example without center filter but with lots of correction, though limited by Velvia's range.

http://www.rickdenney.com/images/Niagra_cannon_scan19-20_lr.jpg

Rick "thinking the XL distinction must be made every time" Denney

alexn
23-Jan-2012, 06:47
Panoral did state that he used the 47/5.6 XL - I failed to mention that in my reply.

Your shot is very nice also... 6x12 is a nice format too, and I am thinking about getting a 6x12 back to use the 47 or 53mm Super Angulons... I really like to get WIIDE

panoral
30-Jan-2012, 13:12
Panoral did state that he used the 47/5.6 XL - I failed to mention that in my reply.

Your shot is very nice also... 6x12 is a nice format too, and I am thinking about getting a 6x12 back to use the 47 or 53mm Super Angulons... I really like to get WIIDE

yes , I shot this photo with super angulon 47xL & center filter IIIc on homemade 6x17 camera on fuji velvia 50. a little have vigneting in corners .

fotografueland
30-Jan-2012, 15:42
Hallo Alex
I am trying to do the same with a 72xl lens on a Linhof Technikardan and 6x17cm chinese roll film back. Found that the back is 43 mm deep so its a struggle to get the lens close enough to the film. Linhof&studio in the UK will try to put it into a 20mm recessed Technika lensboard and its not going to be easy because the front element is so wide. They are going to see if they can build all the controls out of the recessed part because it will be impossible to operate the lens as it is.
Adding a picture of the problem.

Trond

alexn
22-Feb-2012, 20:05
Trond - Thanks for that, its exactly what I needed to see...

I have my 75mm F/4.5 Grandagon-N now and on a flush lensboard its not going to focus at all, however I have a 20mm recessed board in the post that might sort me out. I can operate the aperture, cock the shutter and close/open the shutter with the lens recessed 20mm however I don't know about the shutter speed... I might be adapt a pair of surgical tweezers to operate that...

With any luck... I would hate to have to sell the 617 back and buy back into a dedicated 617 body... Considering I shoot 6x17 more than 4x5" I could probably sell up the 4x5 and go to a Shen Hao 617 folder.. Might be an option...

Joshua Dunn
23-Feb-2012, 01:05
Alex,

With a Schneider 72mm Super Angulon XL on my Sinar with a recessed 6x17 back for a 4x5 frame I would make contact with the rear element and the 6x17 back if focused at infinity. People have mentioned using a recessed lens board, which I did but that will not have an effect on the distance the rear lens element is from the film plane, just the front standard position changes. For that and other reasons I switched to the K.B. Canham 6x17 back and have never looked back.

As far as other lenses that would be wider than the 72mm Super Angulon XL, I have used both the 47mm and 58mm Super Angulon XLís on a 6x17 back and itís tight (forget movements) but it can be done, however you will have trouble with vignetting at infinity, but depending on what you are shooting you can usually find something closer to focus on. However those were both on the Canham back, not a recessed 6x17 back for a 4x5 camera so I canít tell you from experience if the rear elements would make conact. Both the 47mm and 58mm Super Angulon XLís have an image circle of 166mm (Schneiderís numbers are conservative) and the 6x17 format minimum required coverage is about 170mm.

Have you considered getting a Canham?

Hope this helps,

-Joshua



Hi everyone..

Im currently shooting a 90/8 on my 4x5 with a 617 back and the coverage is good, however I want to go wider..The lenses I'm considering are as follows.

Nikkor SW 75/4.5
Schneider SA 72/5.6

I know the 72/5.6 will easily cover 617, what I do not know is if I will be able to focus it at infinity given the offset of the 617 back on my Linhof Kardan Super Colour ST. The 90/8 focuses easily with room for some movements.

My other option is to sell the 617 back, buy a 612 back which sit flush on the 4x5 like a standard film holder, allowing me to go as wide as the 47/5.6 or 58/5.6.

Just looking for opinions. I love the 617 format, I did have a dedicated 617 camera however in an attempt to lighten my camera bag I sold it in favor of the back for the 4x5... This way I'm only carrying one camera and one set of lenses rather than two..

Many thanks.

Alex.

PS. If there are other lenses I should be considering please let me know... I do not want to go longer than 75mm.

Old-N-Feeble
23-Feb-2012, 10:08
If I wanted the widest lens that covers 6x17 (with no movements) then my choice would be a 58mm Super Angulon XL. If I needed some movements then I'd opt for a 72mm SA XL. If I needed significant movements... a 90mm SA XL.

My choice of widest lens to cover 6x12 (similar coverage criteria as above) would be: 38mm SA XL, 58mm SA XL and 72mm SA XL.

This is strictly if there are no other issues to consider such as minimum bellows draw and clearance problems.

BTW, I use center filters on all my WA lenses.

alexn
23-Feb-2012, 13:31
Joshua, does the Canham back fit 4x5? i have only seen them for 5x7 thus far...

JimL
23-Feb-2012, 22:05
Trond, maybe you have a slightly different back than me, but I can't mount the 6x17 film back (Da Yi - Focus) on my Technikardan because it hits the shift/tilt levers on the left side of the rear standard. The ground glass part fits, but not the actual film back.


Hallo Alex
I am trying to do the same with a 72xl lens on a Linhof Technikardan and 6x17cm chinese roll film back. Found that the back is 43 mm deep so its a struggle to get the lens close enough to the film. Linhof&studio in the UK will try to put it into a 20mm recessed Technika lensboard and its not going to be easy because the front element is so wide. They are going to see if they can build all the controls out of the recessed part because it will be impossible to operate the lens as it is.
Adding a picture of the problem.

Trond

Joshua Dunn
24-Feb-2012, 08:07
The Canham 6x17 back only fits a 5x7 frame. On a Canham camera it works like a oversized film holder, you just slide it underneath the ground glass. It will work on other 5x7 backs with some effort and maybe some modifications to the back, I had to modify my Sinar 5x7 to get the Canham back to work on it. For a Canham camera the 5x7 an 4x5 formats sit on the same chassis, you just change the back to match the format you want to use. If you want to shoot 4x5 than you need to have a 5x7 back to hold to Canham 6x17 back. Check out Canham's website here (http://www.canhamcameras.com/). K.B. Canham's site is well done and there is a ton of options there from his metal cameras to his wooden folders. I am a Sinar shooter but if I was going to change systems I would probably get a Canham.

-Joshua



Joshua, does the Canham back fit 4x5? i have only seen them for 5x7 thus far...

fotografueland
27-Feb-2012, 03:13
Jim
Mounting the Da Yi to the Technikardan is possible, I had to take the plastic part on one of the levers of and gently grind the tilt zero lock lever down a little bit, very gently with a dremel. It's tight but possible. Linhof&Studio is working on my 72xl and Technika 20mm recessed lensboard, saying that they can build out controls for the aperture lever, the close and open shutter lever, bending the lever for cocking the lens. They are struggling with a way to operate the shutter speed but are looking deep into it.
Adding a picture of the tight fit.
Trond
69074

JimL
28-Feb-2012, 14:20
Interesting - thanks for the explanation!


Jim
Mounting the Da Yi to the Technikardan is possible, I had to take the plastic part on one of the levers of and gently grind the tilt zero lock lever down a little bit, very gently with a dremel. It's tight but possible. Linhof&Studio is working on my 72xl and Technika 20mm recessed lensboard, saying that they can build out controls for the aperture lever, the close and open shutter lever, bending the lever for cocking the lens. They are struggling with a way to operate the shutter speed but are looking deep into it.
Adding a picture of the tight fit.
Trond
69074

fotografueland
30-Mar-2012, 06:57
Now I have got the Super Angulon 72 XL in to a 21 recessed lensboard, it seemed to be impossible but Paula at Linhof&Studio in the UK modified the controls of the lens and made it possible.
I have about 2 mm more then needed to focus it with the Da Yi 6x17 back on the Linhof Technikardan. so it's possible but not easy. Adding a picture of it.
Trond71065

ypres.bass
3-Jun-2012, 08:12
Hi, i damaged my 90/8 SuperAngulon and now i need any other CHEAP lens for my homemade 6x17 panoramic fixfocus camera.
I search for any pre-war lenses, enlarging lens or somethin like this. Max lenght 150mm(it would be the body was too big).
We do not insist that it was in the shutter, even though it would be better.
Please pick me any tips for next searching.
thanks
standa

Old-N-Feeble
3-Jun-2012, 08:26
Standa... You will have better luck posting in the Classified Ads. I am sorry but we all must wait 30 days after joining this forum before we can post in that section. Have you tried eBay?

ypres.bass
3-Jun-2012, 08:42
Have you tried eBay?it's the reason for my question here... "tips what search in ebay"

Old-N-Feeble
3-Jun-2012, 08:47
Standa... You first wrote "pick me any tips for next searching", not "tips what search in ebay", so I assumed you meant here on the forum. I apologize for my misunderstanding.

I would probably search for "90* sup* ang* -xl" (without the "quotes") and select Buy-It-Now and Newly-Listed then refresh the page often. Good luck. :)

Do you consider $179US "cheap"? If so there's one on eBay right now. We are not allowed to post links to eBay auctions in this forum but... it was listed May 10th. Be aware it is not pretty.

ypres.bass
3-Jun-2012, 08:49
Standa... You first wrote "pick me any tips for next searching", not "tips what search in ebay", so I assumed you meant here on the forum. I apologize for my misunderstanding. Good luck. :)searching everywhere :-)

IanG
3-Jun-2012, 08:59
What's damaged on the 90mm f8 SA ? If it's a lens cell then they doo turn up on ebay, if it's the shutter then that's even easier..

Ian

ypres.bass
3-Jun-2012, 10:13
What's damaged on the 90mm f8 SA ? If it's a lens cell then they doo turn up on ebay, if it's the shutter then that's even easier..

Iani try to remove some metal ring (i can't with that instal lens to shutter) and cut to glass :-(
74651

jb7
3-Jun-2012, 12:08
So, mint minus then...

ypres.bass
4-Jun-2012, 13:45
Please do you think to can i use this (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?91511-FS-90mm-Angulon-f-6-8&p=895276#post895276) for 617? or 612 only? information on internet are so chaotic...
thanks

Old-N-Feeble
4-Jun-2012, 15:03
A f/6.8 Angulon will cover 6x12cm but not 6x17cm. I don't know what shutter-mounted 90mm lens you'll find that will cover 6x17cm and costs less than $179US.

fotografueland
6-Jun-2012, 04:31
A f/6.8 Angulon will cover 6x12cm but not 6x17cm. I don't know what shutter-mounted 90mm lens you'll find that will cover 6x17cm and costs less than $179US.

Should be very possible the Super-Angulon 90/8's image circle is 216 mm and 6x17 needs a diagonal of 179 mm

Trond

ypres.bass
6-Jun-2012, 04:47
thanks, about SA90/8 i know, but it's not cheap...

Old-N-Feeble
6-Jun-2012, 06:42
Should be very possible the Super-Angulon 90/8's image circle is 216 mm and 6x17 needs a diagonal of 179 mm

Trond... Yes, I understand that but Stanislav needs to find something very cheap. Where will he ever find a usable shutter-mounted 90mm f/8 SA for $100US?

Old-N-Feeble
6-Jun-2012, 07:01
LOOK HERE NOW (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?91568-FS-Ilex-90mm-f8-Wide-Angle-Acugon) $150US

This is probably as good as any single-coated f/8 SA and maybe better.

ypres.bass
6-Jun-2012, 12:34
ok, exact price...

i search for any CHEAP* lens which cover 6x17
This is NOT an ad, this is only an effort to find some tips what to look for.
I prefer the lens in shutter, but the "barell" or "enlarger lens" is enough for me

* CHEAP = less than 75USD (with shipping incl.)

Carsten Wolff
8-Jun-2012, 05:49
I've used the 75mm f4.5 Nikkor-SW a fair bit with 6x17 and it is fine until you need significant movements. I paid about $300 for mine a few years ago. The 72 XL would of course be a bit better in that respect if you can afford it
Cheap and wide ain't gonna happen though unless you go to 6x12 and get e.g. a 65mm Angulon or Wide Angle Raptar, but the advantage over the 90mm in 6x17 is minimal, coverage wise.

Old-N-Feeble
8-Jun-2012, 07:22
RE 6x12cm lens: Even a f/6.8 Angulon or WA Raptar will cost more than $75US unless it's in barrel (or in broken shutter) and cosmetically challenged.