big brass lens company info??

[OldCrow]

So I got a phone call from a family member in the south asking me about two lenses. One company I heard of but can not find info one and the other I am stumped.

Crown optical 8x10 portrait, I heard of Crown, never seen one in real life. Its mounted in a wollensak studio shutter, so my guess is turn of the century 1900-1912. Could be wrong.

Then this is the one I am fully clueless on. "7th series portrait lens Mullett Bro's Kansas City 101" 6.5x8.5 (full plate)

Anyone know anything about either of these?

[goamules]

Crown made some of their own glass for a short period, about 1895 to WWI if I recall, but you usually see just magic lantern lenses. In your lens' case it's a Wollensak, relabeled by Crown. I'd wager its an F5 Vesta clone, a Petzval type. If so, there will be some engraving around the front next to the glass that says "F5 Portrait 5x7" or similar.

Mullet Brothers were a reseller, and made no lenses. It was very common for the large photographic supply houses to buy lenses from Wollensak and Bausch & Lomb and have their company name put on. It will be harder to tell who made this one.

[OldCrow]

I found the info on the 8x10 actually. It is a f4.5 symmetrical. No engravings at all. It shows up in the 1911 Crown optical lenses catalogue.

The other one is proving to be a large mystery. Its very very fast and covers 8x10 with slight darkening in the corners. Glass is perfect and it has an original water house stop still in it.

[OldCrow]

pics of the fronts The iris in the shutter is messed up, but i have a spare shutter of the same model.

[Steve Goldstein]

That would be a great name for a modern company specializing in reproducing some of the old classics - The Big Brass Lens Company!

[OldCrow]

Too bad it would have to be followed by the big broke brass lens company with how much it costs to tool up for that, let alone find the skilled craftsmen to do the work. Oh and then materials!

[goamules]

On the inner front engravings for Wollensak clones, sometimes they are missing. But the black band at the front, and the Wollensak label on the other black band in front of the shutter look identical. F4.5 is a weird one, if a Vesta they were F5, but perhaps Crown wanted to push the advertisment a little to keep up with the newer Tessars and such. It's a Petzval, right?

The symmetricals are another term for Rapid Rectilinears, which also were usually another speed, typically F6-8.

Strange, but good lenses I'm sure. Take the back off of that studio shutter one and see if it's a Petzval, I'm curious.

[OldCrow]

It will be in my hand next week. There is no way to tell until it gets here. From what I read there are two Crown lenses made like this one is a f4/5 and the other f5

One a symmetrical and the other a petzval. So this is going to have to wait a bit to see if it is soft focus or not. Either way it is a great gift from the in laws.

I cant really find much as far as listings for Crown lenses. Also there is nothing on the other one. They just have great glass and are pretty big.

I will update this when they get here.

[cdholden]

Crown made some of their own glass for a short period, about 1895 to WWI if I recall, but you usually see just magic lantern lenses. In your lens' case it's a Wollensak, relabeled by Crown. I'd wager its an F5 Vesta clone, a Petzval type. If so, there will be some engraving around the front next to the glass that says "F5 Portrait 5x7" or similar.

Mullet Brothers were a reseller, and made no lenses. It was very common for the large photographic supply houses to buy lenses from Wollensak and Bausch & Lomb and have their company name put on. It will be harder to tell who made this one.

The "font" or typing of the Mullet Brothers lens is similar to B&L markings from that era, if I recall correctly.

[OldCrow]

Got these lenses today, they are amazing. They shutter was simply stuck from not being used. opened and closed it a few times and she is right as rain.
The mystery muttlet bros lens is massive!

[cdholden]

Can you identify all of the optical elements and how they are grouped? Positive, negative, meniscus, doublet, etc...
If you can figure out what design it is, you may be able to find something comparable in old catalogs.

[Mark Sawyer]

I think you just have to love a lens engraved by "The Mullett Brothers".

[cdholden]

Indeed.
"Messrs Mullett" just doesn't have the same appeal.

[OldCrow]

Its a petzval cemented front and air spaced rear. it has 3.25 in elements in a rigid mount with a waterhouse slot and one stop still with it. I will get the focal length and speed in the morning.

I have not been able to find anything like it in any catalogue.

Also it seems the crown lens is also a petzval in a wollensak studio shutter. which stops down to a 1.56... yes it goes f 4 then next is f 1.56? I doubt it is that fast by any means. Also I found one lens that looked very much like this that was a crown optical 8x10 portrait petzval that had a soft focus rear element that you worked by turning the rear elements away from themselves. The other one was not in a studio shutter like this, so I am going to have to give this lens a try, and see what it can do.

But I think I may have stumbled into some pretty nice lenses.

[CCHarrison]

Mullett was a supply house and studio in Kansas City...Mainly active 1899-1920. The building at 518 Walnut Street was a photo supply house since 1870, but it doesnt appear the Mullett boys took over until turn of the century.


Picture of one of the owners.... :)

and here is the building http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&qscrl=1&nord=1&rlz=1T4WZPH_enUS455US456&q=518+walnut+street+kansas+city&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&ion=1&biw=1600&bih=714&wrapid=tlif132705993257910&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x87c0f08ae8b3e0bb:0xea8fc79d0e8571bc,518+Walnut+St,+Kansas+City,+MO+64106&gl=us&ei=7FMZT7uxNeHy0gGs_c2WCw&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CB4Q8gEwAA


Dan

[OldCrow]

I found that same info out as well. Fred Mullett sold his stake in a hardware store in 1875 and opened the photo business in 1877 and they had three locations after 1881 when brother R.B. came aboard. Who was the at one point the treasurer for the national photography convention. They seemed to be the largest supplier for lenses in that area up into the 1920s and then they were gone. http://www.umkc.edu/whmckc/Scrapbook/Articles/KCPhotographers.pdf

None the less these lenses are interesting.

[OldCrow]

Well the mullet bros covers way more then a whole plate, 14 in focal length and comes in a hair over f/4.

Then the crown does indeed soft focus using the back element, which is very controllable and very nicely diffused. It comes in with a 12 in focal length and also right about f/4. Also to be clear this is not the Anastigmat series lens.

I am still healing up from back surgery so I am going to have to wait to post some images from these lenses.

So far on the ground glass they are both very nice. The mullet is outstanding, I am very eager to shoot some plates with it.

[CCHarrison]

More Mullett !!

[OldCrow]

This lens has me stumped for sure. It is the only "keeper" I have come across in some time. Just wish it had its hood. Need to find a good brass machinist to make one up.

So the shutter on the other gave up working smoothly on me after an hour or so. Guess it prefers to just stay open... which is not a bad thing.

[cdholden]

Mullett was a supply house and studio in Kansas City...Mainly active 1899-1920. The building at 518 Walnut Street was a photo supply house since 1870, but it doesnt appear the Mullett boys took over until turn of the century.


I saw reference to a Gatchel, Hyatt and Mullett partnership around 1880, selling in Louisville, KY. Since Hyatt was from St. Louis, and Mullett from Kansas City, it's quite possible this could be one of the brothers. I'll read further when I get more time.
I found this reference while looking up info about W.D. Gatchel. I was given a catalogue (copy, I believe) from 1888 yesterday. 168 pages of cameras, lenses, labware, paper, plates... the works!