View Full Version : Sources of AZO?

9-Nov-2003, 13:46
Without intending to stir up the hornets again I was wondering where a person could get 8x10 AZO. Michael has grade 2 for $85, Adorama has grade 2 for $71 and michael is the only one with grade three as he states. Is there anywhere else?

Pete Caluori
9-Nov-2003, 14:56

Adorama may have AZO listed for $71, but do they actually have it on the shelf - I doubt it. Most any official Kodak dealer can order AZO directly from Kodak, but I suggest you buy it from Michael & Paula. They are the only people willing to fight Kodak for AZO survival. Greater champions of AZO you will not find. Good luck it's a unique paper!

Regards, Pete

David A. Goldfarb
9-Nov-2003, 15:19
B&H may have it in stock. I've occasionally purchased it there.

Ben Calwell
9-Nov-2003, 15:47
Badger Graphics has Grade 2 Azo, 8x10 in 100 sheets boxes. Or at least they did last month. I think the cost is $69 or something. www.badgergraphics.com

Wally Hess
9-Nov-2003, 15:47
I tried to purchase Azo from Adorama just last week, since they show it to be instock on thier web site. I was told, no, they dont have it.

John Kasaian
9-Nov-2003, 16:04

Its simple: If you want to use AZO, buy it new from Michael and Paula. If you want to help kill AZO, buy old stock(if you can even find it)elsewhere. FWIW, I'm not an AZO fanatic, but I do appreciate it, and it would be a poverty if Kodak deemed it undesireable to manufacture. I also appreciate Michael and Paula going to bat with Kodak to keep it in production. ---------Cheers!

Michael Kadillak
9-Nov-2003, 16:12
Go to Michael and Paula. Not only will they sell you the product from stock, they will be there to provide "service" to you when you have a question about using it. They are the experts. Try asking B&H or Adorama a question about Azo.

Michael A.Smith
9-Nov-2003, 19:43
Thanks to those who suggested that Mark get grade 2 Azo from us.

Without my efforts, several years ago Azo would have been discontinued. It is only because Paula and I are committed to it that it was saved.

Last year Grade 3 was discontinued. It is only becasue of my lobbying Kodak for three months that they reversed their decision--as far as I know, a first. Just try getting Kodak to reverse a "discontinued product" decision with other products. Many others have tried. No one else has ever succeeded, to my knowledge. But it was not easy and took a lot of my (unreimbursed) time. Then, as many of you know who followed the Azo saga, Kodak required me to buy all of the remaining stock of Grade 3. Don't know how we could have done it without many, including some of those who just posted, ordering from us at that time, for which Paula and I are most appreciative and grateful.

But even before then we were the only ones with Grade 3 Azo in 100-sheet boxes. Grade 3 has been a special order for some time. The minimum was 108 boxes. We did that one on our own. Would B&H, Adorama, Badger, or any others do it? Not at all. We did--but it wasn't easy.

We have our Azo. We need little more forever. We are doing this so others can use this superb paper. Do we charge, perhaps a little more for a 100-sheet box. Yes, in some cases. Why? (By the way, Calumet charges more than we do. Or did charge more--don't know if they still handle it.)

The other stores order so much product from Kodak--other papers, film, etc, that they get a better price than we do. Also, they are set up to do this. They have the administrative staff to do it and it costs them a lot less than it costs us to fill an order. Also: they are hapy to sell film and paper real cheaply--they use it as a loss leader because they want you to get into the habit of shopping with them so that when you want the high-priced stuff like cameras (which is also the high-margin stuff) you will go to them. We are photographers, not a camera store and we don't have any high margin stuff.

If people want to save a few dollars by getting Grade 2 with a B&H, Badger, Adorama, they can certainly do so, but if enough people do that we'll just say, "to hell with it." Grade 3 will disappear instantly. And Grade 2 will not be far behind.

We really don't want to sell Grade 3 to anyone who also doesn't get Grade 2 from us as well. Or charging a premium to those Grade 3 buyers. That's not particularly nice. It is also not really fair. But I will not toleate being "used." And we are so way out on a limb with this and make so little money from it that it really is not worth our time financially unless we are fully supported by those who use this paper.

And then, as others have pointed out. We are available every waking hour of the day--usually about 18 of them--to answer any and all questions about using this paper. We do this whenever we are not in the darkroom or photographing. We do a lot of writing on the computer and email is always on, so many days, one or the other of us id by the computer all day long. And we often interrupt what we are doing to answer your questions promptly. What is that worth?

So Mark, lets say you get your paper from Badger for $68. You save, after shipping --our shipping rates are not low--about $20. (If we only have a couple of orders a week we get hit with a $16 charge from UPS--and we can't afford to take that hit so our shipping rates are may not be the lowest--though they may be--we really don't know what the others charge for shipping. The camera stores have so many orders going out every day, that it becomes not a problem--they don't have the $16 charge--and they do so much volume that they get preferred shipping rates anyhow. We pay premium rates.)

So getting Grade 2 from us in a 100-sheet box may cost you about $20 for those 100 sheets. (We are lower I think, than the others, for the 500-sheet boxes). That comes to what--say 20 cents a sheet. Now, I've been broke many times in my life, and I well know that if you do not have much money that $20 is a lot. But 20 cents a sheet comes to, say, $2 a print for the first print and 20 cents a print thereafter. That's a pretty small cost, considering the time an effort and money you spent on equipment, fuel to get to location, etc. If it is not worth it to you to get it from us, that's okay. But don't expect us to be thrilled when you call up for Grade 3 only.

And in my experience, limited though it may be, I have never met a photographer who made negatives so exactly that all of their negatives printed on one grade of paper. So I recommend that if you want to try this paper that you get a box of Grade 2 and a box of Grade 3. There is nothing worse than making muddy prints on Grade2 because your negatives do not have enough contrast and then blaming it on the paper, when Grade 3 would have easily taken care of the problem.

9-Nov-2003, 20:32
Michael I was not questioning your price just quoting it. No need for a justification. your price is quite justified considering the wealth of information you freely pass out.

"That's not particularly nice. It is also not really fair. But I will not toleate being "used."

Huh? I guess I do not understand this statement

On a funny note here is another source of AZO but not the paper. Might calm people down though and the price seems right.



It showed up on a Yahoo search. Thought it was well worth the laugh.

Michael A.Smith
10-Nov-2003, 06:32
"That's not particularly nice. It is also not really fair. But I will not tolerate being "used."

The first part: I was referring to myself here. Charging a premium to those who only get Grade3 from us is not particularly nice nor is it fair for me to do that.

"But I will not tolerate being "used." What I meant here is that if someone does get Grade 2 elsewhere to save a couple of bucks, as is their right to do so, and only gets Grade 3 from us, I will feel "used" and not very good about it. I guess I am saying that because of my efforts on behalf of this paper, and the service we give, that we ought to be supported.

This is the way I am about everything I buy. I always buy, and always have, even when I was virtually totally broke, from the "little" store, run by people I could get to know and who would provide service, rather than from a big chain or from a bigger impersonal store, even if the prices at the little store were higher. There is something about forming a personal relationship that to me is worth paying a little more for. In this case, we're the little guys.

Bottom line: For me, the price of something is not always the most important factor. If it is for others when they get Azo and they get Grade 2 elsewhere to save a couple of bucks, I feel why should I support them if they won't support me.

I realize this may offend some and that they may deliberately choose not to get Azo from us nor even use Azo at all. That is their right and that's the way it goes. I will not compromise how I feel about this just to make a sale of Azo paper.

10-Nov-2003, 07:45
Tip: buy the 500 sheet boxes. With shipping, a 100 sheet box of Grade 3 works out to about $1.40/sheet. With a 500 sheet box, you're paying around $0.70/sheet.

Daniel Grenier
11-Nov-2003, 04:46
Just placed my AZO order with Michael.... Did I pay a little more? Don't know - don't care. I do know that I am dealing with a talented, dedicated photographer who is obviously commited to this product. I'd rather give him my money than whowever the heck owns B&H just to save a buck or two.

David A. Goldfarb
11-Nov-2003, 10:09
Just for the record, since my last order of 500 sheets of G2 8x10", I've been ordering from Michael and Paula to support their efforts, but since I do live in New York and walk into B&H every few weeks or so, I was glad that I could just buy it off the shelf when I first tried it a few years ago, and I hope there will still be a few places where that will be possible, because that will mean that there are more people using Azo.