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michaelbehlen
11-Jan-2012, 12:52
Hi everyone! I am new to LF and have been googling for about 2 weeks in search of up to date information. I wanted to get some specirfic recomendations from current LF photogs. Based on what I have read I should start off with some sort of graphic; wether ie be the crown, super, or speed. I have approx 800(US) to spend and want to do one very specific thing. Take 4x5 portriat polaroids using Fuji's instant film. I know I will have to get a fuji holder for the camera. But what else is necessary? What is the average cost of a good condition model of that camera? I don't know if I will be under or over bidding for specific models. If I should be going a different direction camera wise let me know. The 800 will need to include everything to get started. I would prefer to handhold the camera but a tripod is not out of the question. Any extra advice or a point in the right direction would be amazing. Thank you so much in advance,
-Michael

Corran
11-Jan-2012, 13:02
Seems for that specific goal a converted Polaroid would be the way to go.

David de Gruyl
11-Jan-2012, 13:40
Camera body, lens board, lens, film holder / polaroid back, film

If you are hand holding, then a camera with a working rangefinder is a really good idea. I had to go through a couple crown graphics before I found one with a working rangefinder.

Consider whether you want a modern lens or not. Make sure the rangefinder and the lens you will use are calibrated the same. You will most likely get the lens and lens board with the camera, if those work you just need the film and filmholder and you are good to go.

I use a flash (Metz hammerhead, but that isn't important), which comes in awfully handy for hand holding the camera.

jp
11-Jan-2012, 14:02
You'd want to make sure your choice has a graflok back (rather than a normal flat steel bow) so the fuji holder will fit under it. This means pacemaker or super or crown, and not anniversary or preanniversary in most cases. You'd also want to see that the lens's shutter has x-sync if you want to a modern flash.

Look at closed auctions for price ranges. Crowns and supers go for more than pacemakers, as they are a little lighter with a focal plane shutter. A decent pacemaker is probably $150-350 and a crown/super $300+. Buy as nice a condition one as you can afford.

If you like narrow focus and handholding, it's do-able, but one has to be careful as the depth of field can be quite small and holding the camera different shooting versus composing/focusing could move you a couple inches out of focus if you're not intentional about keeping things in the plane of focus.

Another handholdable option is a graflex r.b. SLR. Again, a graflok back would be needed to use the fuji holder. This is a LF camera meant for handholding. A r b super d is what you'd want and you'd want to verify it has a graflok back. This would use up most of your budget, but it's the most purposeful option for handheld portraits. No x-sync on this.

You'd also want a tripod, and if you don't have a rugged tripod go get a tiltall for <$100. Leitz and marchioni varieties are more sought after than modern or new ones.

For lighting, you could buy a 5-in-1 reflector kit to use existing light ($40), a couple of aluminum brooding/work lamps with daylight bulbs ($10-20), or a cheap monolight (such as a white lightning or paul buff) with a stand and a translucent umbrella which can be used as either a soft box or a reflective umbrella which also lights the room. ($200+)

michaelbehlen
11-Jan-2012, 14:03
Corran, which type of polaroid body would be able to use the fuji film holder when converted? Is conversion as simple as slapping a new back on the camera?
@David thank you for the advice. Best place to buy besides that darn acution site?

michaelbehlen
11-Jan-2012, 14:06
@Jp I don't mind using a tripod as super narrow DoF will be used for these portiats. Thank you for the recomendations. I also use a bunch of Alien Bees so x-sync would be important as well. How would I know if the shutter is x-sync compaitble?

jp
11-Jan-2012, 15:13
shutters that are x-sync compatible have a selector switch to choose x, m, whatever as flashbulbs have a different sync than electronic flash. googling for shutter/lens manuals will also tell you more details. Shooting a test shot with no film should show the flash illumnating through the camera lens and onto the groundglass.

michaelbehlen
11-Jan-2012, 17:51
So I spent the last couple of hours googling polaroid conversions for 4x5. Looks like a little work for a decent product. Pros/Cons of this setup? Thinking of a 100 series 4x5 mod. Next question: can I buy a pre converted polaroid for less than a grand anywhere? Razzy's are super clean but its a lot of money. But since 800 is my budget it may make sense to buy a preconverted one. Thoughts?

unixrevolution
11-Jan-2012, 18:22
I had the exact same thought occur to me, and I ended up with a Super Graphic, Fuji FA-45 holder, Vivitar pistol grip thingy, and some lenses. I already had a monorail setup, and I integrated the two. The FA-45 was about $150, the camera was $700 but came with 12 film holders and 2 lenses. The now-indispensable grip was $40.

The setup is shown in "Handheld mode" in my avatar.

Corran
12-Jan-2012, 07:52
So I spent the last couple of hours googling polaroid conversions for 4x5. Looks like a little work for a decent product. Pros/Cons of this setup? Thinking of a 100 series 4x5 mod. Next question: can I buy a pre converted polaroid for less than a grand anywhere? Razzy's are super clean but its a lot of money. But since 800 is my budget it may make sense to buy a preconverted one. Thoughts?

I've seen a guy on ebay selling a converted one for $500. Just check out ebay for a week, they pop out pretty frequently, either new or pre-owned Razzles, etc.

Mine is from Alpenhause.

rdenney
12-Jan-2012, 16:17
Look specifically for a Pacemaker Crown Graphic, with a Graflok back (and NOT a Graphic back). The back's ground glass frame is mounted with push-in clips that allow it to be removed quickly. Then, the Fuji PA-45 or Polaroid 550 back will nestle in that spot, and can be locked down with sliding tabs above and below the opening.

For this purpose, any lens is fine. They usually came with either a 127mm Optar or a 135mm Optar. The 135 is better but both will work fine for instant film. Make sure the camera has the right cam for the lens if it is a top rangefinder model. If it has a side rangefinder made by Kalart, these can be adjusted to work with any press camera lens.

A Crown is the lightest and cheapest of your choices. The Speed has a focal-plane shutter you'll never use, and it's thicker and a bit heavier because of it. The Super is a later and more expensive model, but it's a bit nicer in ways that may not be important for your use.

$300 will get you a decent Pacemaker Crown with a lens. Add in $100-175 for a used or new Fuji PA-45 (less if you find an older Polaroid 550) 4x5 pack film holder. Well under budget and fulfills all you requirements.

The Pacemaker was made after the Anniversary model, in the late 40's and 50's. So, pre-anniversary and anniversary Graphics are not likely to work because they usually don't have a Graflok back to accept alternative film holders like the Fuji/Polaroid.

Rick "who has a Pacemaker Speed Graphic set up for similar purposes" Denney

michaelbehlen
12-Jan-2012, 17:58
@rdenny Perfect advice and very clear! Thanks!

Ivan J. Eberle
12-Jan-2012, 20:04
The Super Graphic is a better and smaller camera than the Crown. It has a rotating Graflok back, which will be more suitable to portraiture.

Ivan J. Eberle
12-Jan-2012, 20:09
Also Supers tend to go for similar money (though Crowns were once half the price used, it's no longer the case). Either can be found for $250 USD nowadays if you're patient.

unixrevolution
12-Jan-2012, 21:54
The Super Graphic is a better and smaller camera than the Crown. It has a rotating Graflok back, which will be more suitable to portraiture.


Also Supers tend to go for similar money (though Crowns were once half the price used, it's no longer the case). Either can be found for $250 USD nowadays if you're patient.

All completely true of my Super. The Super also has more liberal movements, I believe.

Leonard Robertson
13-Jan-2012, 10:23
Michael - In your initial post, you state you want to shoot portraits. Be aware the 135mm lens commonly found on a Pacemaker or Super is roughly equivalent in FL to a 40mm lens on a 35mm camera. If your desire is close-in portraits, you may not be happy (or your sitters won't) with the perspective. So you may be needing a setup with a longer FL lens. If you decide you need a rangefinder coupled longer FL on a Graphic, there are some issues to consider.

On a side rangefinder Graphic, the rangefinder can be readjusted for different FL lenses - to an extent. I'm remembering the upper range of FL is about 210mm (equivalent to a 63mm lens on a 35mm camera; not especially long). I may be mistaken on that 210mm figure, so hopefully someone will correct me. Telephoto formula lenses (longer FL with less bellows extension) were available for Graphics, but I don't know anything about adjusting a side RF for them.

Top RF Graphics and Supers use interchangeable cams for different FL lenses. Which seems like the perfect solution IF you can find the cam you need. The cams seem to be rather rare, at least for longer FL lenses. Maybe someone knows a source of cams. There are articles online on modifying cams or making you own to fit a given FL lens, but you need to decide how much work you want to do. No doubt someone somewhere will do this for you - for a price.

As was suggested, you can bypass the entire RF issue by going with a Graflex SLR. The problem is finding one with a Graflok back, so you can use your Polaroid holder. Graflok backs are uncommon on Graflexes. Unfortunately, Graflex rear shutters don't sync well with electronic flash. I think this is why Gowland twin-lens 4X5 cameras are favored by some portrait shooters - longer FL lenses, good flash sync, and Graflok back.

Len

Leonard Robertson
13-Jan-2012, 13:47
After posting this AM, I found this over on graflex.org with links to cam information:

http://www.graflex.org/helpboard/viewtopic.php?t=6188&sid=9bd044a63149476d074e29bfea0382f4

If you think you may get caught up in the soft-focus lens mania, a Speed rather than a Crown or Super would be very desirable, as you can experiment with various non-shuttered lenses - projector lenses, Aero-Ektars, home made lenses, whatever. But again, electronic flash won't work very well with the Speed rear shutter except for sort of an "open shutter" and fire the flash routine. Which may work fine if your subjects aren't moving around.

Len

ki6mf
13-Jan-2012, 15:29
While portraits are the emphasis you may want to look at a rail based view camera. These can be had on craigs list or e bay for very low cost. I saw one locally for $75.00 with out lens or film holders. The advantage is that you can get swings and tilts for perspective control, can be used for out door shooting. If you are careful using tilts movements you can also throw the background out of focus which can be useful for portraits. I would put money into a 210 or 240 MM lens for portraits. Given your budget you may be able to find a 135-150 MM normal, a 210-240 Portrait lens and a rail view camera for the money you have to spend.

Jay DeFehr
13-Jan-2012, 17:01
Michael,

I think Wally makes a good point. Since you're ok with a tripod, and have hinted at using studio lights, there's no reason to avoid a rail camera, and for studio-type work, they offer many advantages in addition to being generally less expensive than press or field cameras. I don't know what look you're going for, but I would look for a lens in the 7"-9" (178mm- 220mm) range with a large maximum aperture and an X-sync shutter, a camera with a rotating or reversible Graflok back and at least 16" of bellows. I wouldn't worry about view camera movements. On old wooden tailboard camera would suit you just fine, but those didn't come with Graflok backs. If you're reasonably handy it's not too difficult to make a back, or adapt one, but it's quicker and easier to get a camera that comes with one. Good luck!

gorsescent
13-Jan-2012, 19:44
This might be a good choice for you.

http://page7.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/g100950856

According to the seller, the camera comes with a Fujinon 135mm lens, a 6x9 roll film holder, and a lens board. They are all new old stocks!!!

The price is 80000 yen.